Closing off county panels

[Lar Naparka]

I wonder if anyone on this board could tell me anything about the way the new grant scheme for intercounty panellists is supposed to operate.
About two months ago, John O'Mahony, Mayo's manager, announced that his panel was going to be finalised and 'closed off' at the end of Mayo's league run. This had to be done, said O'Mahony because the county board required the finalisation of the panel in order to keep tabs on players' entitlement to grant monies.
I thought this move was bizarre; no one can foresee possible injuries or loss of form that might affect any member of any panel. What would happen if new talent was discovered or re-discovered in any county- especially if the panel had already been depleted?
The implication to be taken from O'Mahony's press statement was that intercounty panels had to be finalised well in advance of the championships and that this had to be done at the request of the county boards.
Has any other county in Ireland felt the need to close off its panel to date? I haven't heard of a single county yet that has followed Mayo's lead.
Can any poster name one for me?

[Hound]

Managers can bring players in and out of their panel as the choose fit. I think it means a grant will have to be pro-rated as appropriate but its not a huge deal

O'Mahoney is using the "closed panel" and grants as an excuse to stop people asking him about when or if CMcD is coming back

[passedit]

[shark]

Well I know that Westmeath added about 4 new players to their panel only 3 weeks ago and have a panel of about 34 presently.

[stephenite]

Pretty sure O'Mahoney has also said that his panel is open ended?

[moysider]

Pretty sure O'Mahoney has also said that his panel is open ended?

Course he did Stephenite. Now here is the crux of the matter. In reality nothing to stop him drafting in somebody at this stage - but will he? He was nt in Knockmore yesterday for obvious reason but I heard Tommy Lyons was and I saw Seán Feeney there. The only  Mayo panel member to stand out was James Nallen. Kilcoyne was poor and could be described in more damning terms. Gardiner was middling but no end product on runs. However Kevin McLoughlin was very good and MacDonald was sublime. As good a display as ever I saw him produce and I ve seen most of them - in the championship anyway. Will they be called in on the strength of what is very obvious to some of us? Dont think so.

[stephenite]

I'm in no position to say whether or not anyone else will be drafted in at this stage, but I'm pretty sure Ciaran Mac won't be drafted in which I'm sure is what you're gettting at. We've been through this - it's not some remarkable slump in form that has Ciaran Mac off the panel, you know it, I know it Lar knows it so I'm baffled by the need for another thread, much less the need for any further discussion.


Why do you mention Sean Feeneys presence? He's an administrator, who cares what his opinion is on what footballers should be on the panel - you can be sure Johnno doesn't given their history.

[moysider]

I wonder if anyone on this board could tell me anything about the way the new grant scheme for intercounty panellists is supposed to operate.
About two months ago, John O'Mahony, Mayo's manager, announced that his panel was going to be finalised and 'closed off' at the end of Mayo's league run. This had to be done, said O'Mahony because the county board required the finalisation of the panel in order to keep tabs on players' entitlement to grant monies.
I thought this move was bizarre; no one can foresee possible injuries or loss of form that might affect any member of any panel. What would happen if new talent was discovered or re-discovered in any county- especially if the panel had already been depleted?
The implication to be taken from O'Mahony's press statement was that intercounty panels had to be finalised well in advance of the championships and that this had to be done at the request of the county boards.
Has any other county in Ireland felt the need to close off its panel to date? I haven't heard of a single county yet that has followed Mayo's lead.
Can any poster name one for me?

Lar you know as well as I do it was a mixture of gravitas, cunning and spin on Johnno s part. It was part of a strategy [ ill advised in my opinion] to deal with the Mac Donald situation. And he may have got away with it.  It has worked so far and it will be interesting if the local hacks call the Knockmore display by Mac on Sunday as it was or whether the will be craven shoneens. Rice has been anti Brady and Mac down the years and will probably skip around the blatantly obvious. Others too that gave Maughan and Moran/Morrison a shoeing need to show that they re impartial when it comes to criticism.
There s no such thing as a closed panel unless you want to go down that route as a convenience. No manager in their right mind would do it. June ,July and August is the time to be playing and assessing football. In Mayo championship last weekend there were some good and indifferent displays by Mayo panel members. Some lads not in panel - but with known ability-  were very impressive in a comparable situation. Question is who s watching and what do they want to see?




       

[moysider]

I'm in no position to say whether or not anyone else will be drafted in at this stage, but I'm pretty sure Ciaran Mac won't be drafted in which I'm sure is what you're gettting at. We've been through this - it's not some remarkable slump in form that has Ciaran Mac off the panel, you know it, I know it Lar knows it so I'm baffled by the need for another thread, much less the need for any further discussion.


Why do you mention Sean Feeneys presence? He's an administrator, who cares what his opinion is on what footballers should be on the panel - you can be sure Johnno doesn't given their history.

First of all I did not start this thread. Secondly Stephenite I realise you are away, but for those of us who attended games at the weekend and networked with those who attended others it has become a bit alarming to say the least. Our full back was destroyed by a lad not good enough to be in the panel. Fit again Liam O Malley was superb but Pat Harte was nt and he started cornner forward.  When Harte moved out O Malley drove on. There s a lot happening over here. Meanwhile Mac is the best player in the county and Feeney is sent down to bat in Knockmore. You can be sure his opinion counts but I m not sure what his opinion would be.

I know Johnno was at the Ballaghadereen game. To watch whom I don t know because its unlikely we ll see Hanley or the Kilcullens any time soon?

[Lar Naparka]

Pretty sure O'Mahoney has also said that his panel is open ended?

You're dead right, Stephenite, he has said this- no doubt about that.
However, he did say it, after McDonald had unexpectedly gone public and denied he was turning his back on Mayo football. Now, I am not making a case for McDonald's inclusion here; a manager has the right to choose whoever he wants.
But he, or any other manager, should carry out his duties in an open and transparent manner. With authority comes responsibility, and I think it was O'Mahony's responsibility to ensure that both the player and the manager knew each other's stance before saying the panel was being closed at the county board's behest.
Was the panel closed off at the request of the county board or was this a cheap ploy to get rid of the Mac, without the risk of incurring a backlash from Mac's legion of supporters?
To me, keeping the panel open-ended is the only sensible thing to do. Hitherto, I have had the height of respect for O'Mahony but I wonder now.
Has any other county board told its manager to close his panel? If not, I would ask if the Mayo board did in fact request O'Mahony to do this.
Now, O'Mahony has retracted his original statement and declared the panel open again. Essentially, nothing is changed; apart, that is, from a most unholy row and a very unsettling effect on the present members of the panel, who may have assumed their places were assured.
If O'Mahony was in fact masking his real intentions when he made the original statement and had fully intended declaring the panel to be open-ended once Mac had gone away, then I will lose my previous respect for the man.

[stephenite]

McDonald not being on the panel is the reason Johnno was not at the Crossmolina game, and I doubt if he'll attend any Cross games this year. You are correct in that I am away but it doesn't change my opinions, which are something along these lines.

Ciaran MacDonald is still the best player in the county.
Standard of club football in Mayo has gone from very high to mediocre.
Difference between club level and Inter county level is huge and he hasn't played at this level properly for almost 2 years.

If Ciaran was back with the county from the start of the year and everything was hunky dory we still wouldn't be within an asses roar of landing the main prize, I have always felt that Ciaran Mac had some reservations playing for certain Mayo managers and his lack of appearances in the majority of league campaigns over the years back up this theory, coupled with the notion that he doesn't need to play in a trial game than I would suggest that a certain lack of respect for John O'Mahoney exists - and that this is probably a two way street - Mac probably feels that there is a certain lack of respect towards him from the manager. They obviously don't like/respect each other therefore it's never going to work if Mac was back on the panel.

Anyway doesn't matter - there is a bigger picture to take into consideration here and that picture is bigger than any spats that might exist between JOM and CM. If Ciaran Mac was still in his early 20's then it might be worth all this discussion, but I just don't think it should be worth it all now when he has maybe 2 years max left at Inter county level.

Move on - everyone, please?

[Lar Naparka]

Honestly, I had no desire whatsoever to rehash the arguments posted on the other thread when I began this one. What's done is done and let the cards turn up as they will.
I am genuinely curious about the way the panels are going to operate throughout the country now that grant monies are in the picture and I've been looking to expand the discussion beyond a straight player vs. manager row that is concerned solely with events in Co. Mayo.
I would love to find out what is likely to happen in other counties when it comes to sorting out who is going to get what at payout time. There may be trouble ahead, as the old song puts it.
Also, going back to the Mayo scene, I believe there is a side issue that nobody else has picked up on.
I hear that some of the newer lads on the panel are concerned at the re-opening of the panel again as that this might affect their own chances of getting championship action this summer.
I see no merit whatever in continuing the original controversy but probable player unease does concern me.

[stephenite]

Arrah I suppose it's inevitbale that the Mac debate will rage on once he's still playing well at club level - and as long as he's not on the panel there'll be a couple of lads looking nervously over their shoulder at every training session waiting to see if he arrives. Not fair on these lads but as long as he's still performing well it's going to happen.

[Tubberman]

From an outside view Mayo may need McDonalds services a year or two longer. I reckon there is another agenda here, and Mayo having a really short summer is part of it.

Well you have my attention now! Who's agenda would it be to ensure Mayo have a really short summer?? What possible benefit could come out of that, we had a short summer last year and it's hardly been the making of a great team.

[IolarCoisCuain]

I have always felt that Ciaran Mac had some reservations playing for certain Mayo managers and his lack of appearances in the majority of league campaigns over the years back up this theory, coupled with the notion that he doesn't need to play in a trial game

The diligence of the marvellous Willie Joe in keeping statistics for Mayo's games for the past fourteen years lets us finally put this one to bed once and for all.

Here are Willie's stats: http://mayogaablog.com/?page_id=222

95 league games since Ciarán McDonald made his debut in November 1994 (or near enough - some of the stats are missing). McDonald played in 37 of them, which is an appearance rate of 38% of all possible games played.

All possible games played. Crossmolina got to two All-Ireland Finals, in 2001 and 03, which clashed with league fixtures. Rule McDonald out of selection for these. That brings him up to 45%.

Allow for time in the States in 1996, and his retirement after that infamous game against Fermanagh - 53% per cent appearance rate.

Allow for the fact that we have his own manager's word for it that he wasn't considered for selection for the league in 2007 and 2008 due to a back injury, and that brings his appearance rate to 67%.

67% of league games isn't bad, especially when you consider that we don't have stats for games when he may have sat on the bench, or mightn't even have been selected. Crossmolina duty would have ruled him out for more games than I've allowed also.

Stephenite makes a sweeping and unfortunate statement about "his lack of appearances in the majority of league campaigns." Campaigns is an unfortunate word to use here. Looking at Willie Joe's stats, Ciarán McDonald played in 10 of 14 league campaigns since he's come on the scene. Allowing for club commitments and being out of the country the only league campaign that he missed and for which we have no evidence that he should or shouldn't have been there is 2004, when he missed all seven games in the league. Mayo got to the All-Ireland final that year.

Case closed?