Bertie to Resign

[J70]

Who governs Ireland, certainly not the ordinary decent tax-paying irish citizens, if they did Bertie would still be in power, as very few really believe he was corrupt.

Are you serious?

[stephenite]

the hounding of this basically decent Man, who has served his country well.

Do you not mean a cowardly hoor who sent a Secretary to attempt to back up an untrue version of events and allowed her to be destroyed in the Witness Box.
Jasus Pangur but you're either a WUM or an awful innocent buckeen altogether.

Bertie did not send his secretary anywhere, the tribunal supenoed her to appear before them, refusal to do so would could have landed her with a heavy fine or imprisonment. The bullying and intimidation of her by the brave, highly paid lawyers, was disgraceful and a stain on the country. I think you are the naive, innocent abroad, open your eyes and engage your brain, you will be soon be shocked out of your complacent innocence. If that sounds offensive,im sorry, its not meant to be. I respect your opinion, but cant help angry when propagandist nonsense is presented as fact

That's all well and good - does not change from the fact that Bertie Ahern has lied to either the Tribunal or Dail or both. You might find it acceptable for a politician to be corrupt and have unexplained payments from sources unknown, I for one certainly don't. I expect elected politicans to have some honour and dignity and respect the office to which they are elected, and also respect the people that elected them.

Open your eyes and engage your brain and stop the ridiculous hypocrisy you silly man - how can one have any faith in this man and bemoan his political passing is beyond, much less try and close your eyes and ears and sing daa daa daaa and be so blind as to the fact that the man has taken large sums of cash, loaned his girlfirends Aunts 30,000 of money that wasn't his to loan in order to purcahse property and expected us to believe he didn't know anything about it. Add it up to the other shady dealings that he hasn't properly explained.

And you have the gall to come on here and castigate others about their naievty and ignorance - and shift the blame onto a media and opposition that were doing they're job,

As above you may find his grubby financial dealings acceptable, but most straight thinking individuals do not and trying to have a go at the opposition and media for doing their job is ridiculous.

You're not the only that gets angry when damn lies and propagandist bullshit is presented as fact

[Leo]

the hounding of this basically decent Man, who has served his country well.

Do you not mean a cowardly hoor who sent a Secretary to attempt to back up an untrue version of events and allowed her to be destroyed in the Witness Box.
Jasus Pangur but you're either a WUM or an awful innocent buckeen altogether.

Bertie did not send his secretary anywhere, the tribunal supenoed her to appear before them, refusal to do so would could have landed her with a heavy fine or imprisonment. The bullying and intimidation of her by the brave, highly paid lawyers, was disgraceful and a stain on the country. I think you are the naive, innocent abroad, open your eyes and engage your brain, you will be soon be shocked out of your complacent innocence. If that sounds offensive,im sorry, its not meant to be. I respect your opinion, but cant help angry when propagandist nonsense is presented as fact

Pangurban, a few facts:
All Bertie had to do was give the full facts in privaye session to the Tribunal, admit he got all this dosh, maintain he did no favours, and the trail may have gone cold and he'd be home free.
Instead he obstructed the Tribunal, concealed evidence of hidden accounts and payments and lied on oath - fact.
In his RTE interview he said his savings were all gone - not true.
He said he was broke - far from it apparently.
He said he had no dealings in sterling - not true.
He said he wanted to give information about the so called Manchester dig out "for completeness" - his story was anything but complete.

Now I'm only scratching the surface here but these lies alone would do for any decent democratic state for removal from office.

Let's come to Grainne Carruth then. You are right that the Tribunal summoned her to appear. Why? Because the bank manager contradicted the untrue evidence of Bertie about the sterling, therefore the Tribunal looked the records, including dockets signed by Grainne Carruth, so she had to be called. Bertie's lawyers consulted with her (in Bertie's office) before she went to the Tribunal so he knew what was coming down the line. He could have gone to the Tribunal at that stage to tell the truth and save her from the ordeal but he didn't - he let her hang - fact. Uncomfortable fact.

And finally if you read the transcripts of the Tribunal you will see that both the barristers and the judges actually went very easy on her allowing her to take a break, letting her go home early on day one when the evidence was at tipping point, and calling a halt on day two when most observers would have expected Des O'Neill to really go to town on the contradictions. Instead he quietly but firmly got her to the point of accepting her previous testimony was untrue without lashing into her about it. Read the transcripts and this too will all be shown to be fact.

Finally I am surprised that no-one has actually linked the rush to make yesterday's unexpected  statement by Bertie with the High Court disclosures of the day before when the Tribunal handed over to Bertie's lawyers their evidence of certain foreign exchange transactions. What was in those papers will come to light in the next Tribunal hearings and will take this sad saga far further than has yet been anticipated and, in the face of that, Bertie was advised he had to go now.

And the significance of the May 6th date? It is before his next appearance at the Tribunal.

[Son_of_Sam]

another victory for the red tops.
where one alleged  little flaw can out do the amazing job Bertie has done for the country over the last ten  years. he changed ireland to be one of the strongest economic powers for it size in the world. from being a country riddled with unemployment he  made he  a magnet for workers from all over the world.  but tabloids need headlines for tabloid people and another noble head roles found guilty of nothing just a suspicion of recieving gifts from his mates in hard times. when he wasnt even taoiseach.
This noth to metion the peace process and all that has done for ireland. when bruton gret a chance there were bombs going off in 6 months. but he was a rich man and was rewarded wiith a cushy UN Job the great peace maker.
Farewell Bertie our great Taoiseach since lemass and f**k the begrudgers

Have to say, I am the happiest I have been in a long time, heres one Mayoman ever so glad to see him go  & I hope the tribunal continues to hunt him down.

[Pangurban]

All the rantings above are typical of the holier than you attitudes which prevail in this post-christian society.. Why bother with a tribunal, you have deemed him guilty. He has resigned, so all thats left for you to do is shred his reputation and belittle his achievements, which you are doing with obvious relish. History will judge him in a more fair,equitable manner, and you will all live to regret your rush to judgement. As for the charges you lay against him, they make clear that none of you were politically active in the Ireland of the eighties or the nineties. the past is another country, by the standards which operated then Bertie is as clean as a new born babe. His financial dealings were certainly a muddle, as were most of the politicians and parties of the day. But when it comes to doing favours for payment or personal gain, all the probings of tribunals and press have not laid a glove on him. Wallow in your victory, you have served your purpose and displayed the righteous indignation expected from you by the puppet masters. Reynolds,Haughey and Ahearne gone, how long before they come for Cowan. I expect we shall have not to long to wait.

[stephenite]

All the rantings above are typical of the holier than you attitudes which prevail in this post-christian society.. Why bother with a tribunal, you have deemed him guilty. He has resigned, so all thats left for you to do is shred his reputation and belittle his achievements, which you are doing with obvious relish. History will judge him in a more fair,equitable manner, and you will all live to regret your rush to judgement. As for the charges you lay against him, they make clear that none of you were politically active in the Ireland of the eighties or the nineties. the past is another country, by the standards which operated then Bertie is as clean as a new born babe. His financial dealings were certainly a muddle, as were most of the politicians and parties of the day. But when it comes to doing favours for payment or personal gain, all the probings of tribunals and press have not laid a glove on him. Wallow in your victory, you have served your purpose and displayed the righteous indignation expected from you by the puppet masters. Reynolds,Haughey and Ahearne gone, how long before they come for Cowan. I expect we shall have not to long to wait.

That is just infantile claptrap.Puppet masters indeed, you may choose to keep your head buried in the sand when it comes to standards of your politicans but don't go all jackanory and start making up tall tales to try and justify your stupidity to the rest of us.

Financial dealings a muddle - he claimed he didn't even have a bank account, he had sums of cash lying about that well over and above the national wage of the day. As above, naive clowns like yourself might choose not to see the wrongs in all of this but don't castigate others for their choice to insist on honourbale politicans behaving in an appropriate manner above grubby lying scum like Ahern and his ilk. Some of his colleagues have had to serve jail time when the tribunals finally caught up with them and here's hoping this particular rat doesn't escape the trap.

[Declan]

I respect your opinion, but cant help angry when propagandist nonsense is presented as fact

Had to laugh at that. Hounded by the press my arse. He's greatest legacy is his huge commitment to the GFA and his undoubted political saviness in negotiations with the social partners and in Europe. His downside has been his complicity in corruption not only with the recent disclosures re the money travelling in and out of his accounts and the obvious discrepancies in his own evidence but more importantly his acquiesence towards Haughey, Burke, Lawlor and Flynn. Also his mismanagement of the greatest economic boom in the history of the state is to my mind the greatest stain on his legacy. A very personable man and likeable but that could be said of a lot of people and isn't a quality that's absolutely needed for a political leader.

From a man who abused the media himself and brought his own marriage break up into the public domain to muddy the waters with his crocodile tears.
So enough of the blame the meedja nonsense - He decided to go because as he said all the attention on the tribunal was affecting the governance of the country and why was that? - because of his own evidence to the same tribunal so it's as a direct result of his own behaviour. So Cheerio Bertie - Any spare blank cheques left you could sign for me to help me out? 

[Zapatista]

Bertie did not send his secretary anywhere,

He sent her to the bank with sterling lodgements to lodge into accounts including his childrens. He then went to the tribunal and told them under oath it was his wages

This talk about it being a good timing is crap. Any time before the Tribunal finished it's work was a good time to go as it was only going to progressively get worse. He waited long enough for it to get this bad. If he had have walked back in Sept it would have been a better time for him and FF. Things got so bad he had to go. This is bad timing in my opinion.

Lar. Ahern is Guilty of not being fit for office. If only becuase he lost the trust of the people it is enough to make him guilty of that. He has paid that price and rightly so.

The media have been FF and Aherns biggest defenders. The Independant News Group (Irelands largest media outlet) have supported Ahern and FF from prior to the election. RTE have been more than good to Ahern too.

[Aristotle Flynn]

It's always sad to see any public figure forced to resign and humiliated even when some of their statements are impossible to believe (no bank account!).. I think there's no doubt he was hounded out of office - death by a thousand tabloid headlines.

He was never much of a GAA man, was he?

[Zapatista]

Fcuksake

There goes my theory. Lenihan just ruled himself out.

Not for the first time I'd wager.

My theory of the end of the world still stands though

[Farrandeelin]

Sure they're already after Cowan's brother...

[Louth Exile]

It's always sad to see any public figure forced to resign and humiliated even when some of their statements are impossible to believe (no bank account!).. I think there's no doubt he was hounded out of office - death by a thousand tabloid headlines.

He was never much of a GAA man, was he?

I don't subscribe to the line that it was the tabloids that hounded him out. Journalists such as Fintan O'Toole and Vincent Browne were to the very fore front of the questionning of Ahern and like them or not you can hardly call them tabloid!

Pat Rabitte was putting forward this theory that Bertie only went to the games to be seen!! Personally I find this hard to believe and whatever else about him, he was a proper sportsfan and a proper GAA man. I remember being at a first round championship game between Na Fianna and Erins Isle a number of years ago, even though there was only a few hundred there, Bertie was in attendance. Credit where credit is due, he wasn't just a man for the big day in Croker. (Sure when Garret came to power, I'd say it was the first time he was ever in Croker and was probably wondering why the ball wasn't oval!)

Sure they're already after Cowan's brother...

This was reported last week, as you would expect it to be, but I haven't heard anything of it since. Is the story still running?

[Zapatista]

The Times where the paper asking all the questions. Justified in my opinion. I think it was Aherns lawyers more than FF that advised him to step down. Cowens brother dodged some tax, he was caught and paid the bill. End of story as far as I or anyone in the media or opposition are concerned i'd say.

[belleaqua]

I think a few people on this board should take a good hard look at themselves regarding some of the comments posted on this thread. I believe Bertie Ahern's position as Taoiseach was untenable and was detracting from the business of government and the running of the country. It is wrong to place blame at the hands of the media. However the inability of people here to put aside party politics and old civil war loyalties is terribly depressing.

To label the Taoiseach, a man elected 3 times by the people of this country as a 'rat, thief, crook and scum' is a sad reflection on peoples character and intelligence. If ye cant have any respect for his achievements try and at least have some respect for yerselves. To bracket Bertie Ahern with the likes of Charlie Haughey, Ray Burke or Liam Lawlor is despicable and disgraceful. History will be very kind.

[Declan]

If ye cant have any respect for his achievements try and at least have some respect for yerselves.

I have respect for the good things that he has done - namely GFA, social partnership, Europe etc and stated so.

To bracket Bertie Ahern with the likes of Charlie Haughey, Ray Burke or Liam Lawlor is despicable and disgraceful

why is it despicable? He was deeply involved in Haugheys thievery of money by handing over blank unsigned cheques. He appointed Burke as a minister to govt having "climbed every tree in north county dublin" looking for evidence of wrongdoing but couldn't find any  - joke- Depends where he looked though doesn't it. He was party treasurer and leader and turned a blind eye to both Lawlor and Flynns' dealings. It remains to be seen why he got amounts of unsolicited monies in different currencies from parties known or unknown and what he did withthat money. He has been involved in a govt for the best part of 2 decades now that presided over a disgraceful planning process at local and national levels that has had a serious impact on a lot of people.

Dunno how history will treat him but no doubt it will be balanced - especially if INM have anything to do with it.

This argument that you can't apply modern day standards in public office to the "bad" old days is nonsense. Jaysus when the kids do something wrong you'd say to them just because Johnny did it doesn't make it right". He knew it was wrong to take the money at the time and if he didn't well then that's even worse judgement.