Interesting view on sectarianism in Scotland

[lynchbhoy]

got sent this interesting piece, a bit of an eye opener for anyone who doesnt know about how things are in Scotland.
As NI is getting better , Scotland is as bad and maybe even worse!
Will inform a few on here as to the state of things over there !





The Filth and the Fury, Written by Che Timvara, SATURDAY, 23 FEBRUARY 2008

It's not often something Derek Johnstone says makes me sit up and pay attention. It's even rarer for one of his excruciating comments to make me do some thinking. Johnstone's banter is neither stimulating nor thought provoking, but during the Rangers/Falkirk game recently he said something that got me in a big way.

He was waxing lyrical about the upcoming wedding of his daughter, cracking the usual unfunny jokes, when it was suggested by someone on the panel that he considers selling the wedding photos. Yes, Derek says, we've already had offers. I'm selling them to Hello magazine, or rather, to Hello Hello magazine. "Just a wee joke, folks," he said, and no-one laughed.

It was then I knew I'd heard it correctly all right, and for the first time I can recall I sat back in my seat to consider the wider implications of a Derek Johnstone utterance.

As I was doing so I logged on, and checked my e-mails, thinking that perhaps the time had come for examining the issue of sectarianism in Scotland more fully than I'd done before. What I found was an e-mail from a friend of mine, asking me to investigate certain events at the University of Stirling which have caught the eye of some folk out there, and are causing concern. I have done some digging in the last week, and what I've found has me deeply troubled. It seems the student union, SUSA, has been selling orange wristbands carrying the slogan "Love The Union". Ostensibly this is a promotion of some sort, to get people back into the place, although quite how this works I am not sure, but the connotations are all too obvious to anyone with a half a brain, which presumably rules out the entire upper echelon of Stirling University's student political body.

Or does it? Over the last few days, as my attempts to get to the bottom of it have first been ignored then obstructed, I have begun to wonder if perhaps someone up there didn't know exactly what they were doing. Is Stirling University Students Association now in the hands of bigots? Is it being run by bigots, or for bigots? This is not an allegation, bear in mind, simply a question. So is this: everyone at Stirling knows the union is struggling financially, so with a high population of students from the North of Ireland, are they so desperate for cash they're willing to pander to sectarianism, and even harness it to advertise their bars? When this question has been asked of them, they've ignored it, but as this is the union that produced Jack McConnell, as well as John Reid, they are seriously mistaken if they think this matter will simply wither away and die. I won't let it die.

In the end, these are small matters in the grand scheme of things, but what's happening at Stirling brings into focus the wider problem, that and Derek Johnstone's fat mouth.

Too many people still think this stuff is a big joke. Too many people still treat sectarianism as a lesser issue than women's rights, than gay rights or than matters of race. Derek Johnstone finds it acceptable to crack jokes live on the radio, which are disgustingly offensive, and has the temerity to pretend it's funny, even when it's clear even to him that other people don't think so.

Derek Johnstone's fat mouth has uttered stupid stuff before, almost every time he opens it, but when he quotes from a now universally acknowledged sectarian anthem in the hope some of his brain-dead audience find it funny, as doubtless many knuckle dragging scum did, he is doing more than just giving tacit approval to the continuation of a disturbing mindset. Johnstone is having fun at the expense of the victims of violent sectarian crime. He is laughing in the faces of grieving mothers and father, and brothers and sisters. He is merrily, cheerfully, dancing on the graves of murder victims, whose killers doubtless believe that being up to their knees in Fenian blood is perfectly fine, as, to quote Peter Martin (McGuire), sectarianism was once acceptable, and wasn't always illegal.

Martin (McGuire) has a point too, of course. Scotland did not actually have laws outlawing sectarian employment practices until 2003, when the Executive passed The Employment Equality (Religion or Belief) Act, which, on paper at least, put an end to the old "what school did you attend" questions which were once so notorious. Yes, and pigs might fly, and Rangers fans might start their own branch of Opus Dei. We all know how it works in this country. Nowadays those questions are no longer necessary, and as the story goes, every printing firm in Glasgow has its Catholic clean-up man.

Growing up amidst a sea of sectarianism, one can't help but think other folk in other countries must think we're insane when they are exposed to this, much as Francis McDormad's character does at the beginning of Ken Loach's Hidden Agenda, when she, an American civil rights lawyer, watches an Orange Walk from a hotel window in early `80's Belfast. In that moment she sees similarities with Chile after the Pinochet coup; here in Scotland the coup happened hundreds of years ago, and even if the power of elected government has changed hands over that time the source of real power never has.

The real questions that haunt me, the ones I'm going to try hard and answer, are these: has the collective radar of our community improved to the point where we see things that were never evident before, or is it maybe something else? Is sectarianism in Scotland actually worse than it has ever been? Did we really believe banning some songs at the football would be the end of the problem? Could McConnell and the previous Executive really have been kidding themselves that much? Surely the whole anti-sectarian crusade wasn't what some of us said it was all along, an exercise in pure cosmetics?

Sectarianism is the biggest social evil in Scotland today and in the West of Scotland in particular. It affects people in every walk of life, and even discussing it, or trying to, in a rational fashion is fraught with peril. Even academics have to watch every word they say, lest those words be twisted, sensationalised, made to sound other than they are. Responsible debate on the issue is often difficult because emotions run high, and even the most innocuous of remarks can sound like bigotry when placed in the wrong context. The damage this does to our whole society is awesome and awful. Today it is safe to say no community is without a section of bigots, but studies aplenty have told an unpalatable truth; Scotland's Catholics are far more likely to suffer sectarian discrimination than Protestants.

Let me dispel two myths before I start.

First, Celtic fans as a whole, and Irish Catholic fans in particular are not simply paranoid. This is especially for some of you boys and girls who occasionally ask the mirror the question, as if you, yourself, have gone mad somewhere along the line. Well, rest assured, the studies bear our view out, and the evidence of your own eyes and ears cannot be questioned. I see and hear it too. If we are suffering from delusions I would suggest we're suffering from the same delusion, and it's widespread. In light of the evidence I conclude this is not a mass mental health issue, not what some sarcastically call the Irish disease. No, friends, this is real.

This is the world we live in, sick and twisted though it is.

Secondly, Rangers, as a club, have moved on not one inch. Again, I will be accused of over-stating, but I'm not. Anyone who believes the institution of Rangers has actually gone forward is sorely kidding not only the rest of us but themselves most of all. Any changes at Rangers have been forced on them, and are no cause for lauding them or giving them baubles. Let me pose a hypothetical question to you; if a serial killer were to be released from prison and a twenty-four hour guard put on his home would we applaud his progress and give him a good citizenship award when he didn't re-offend?

We are lucky in that regard, because we actually can see the inside of Rangers house, and observe how they act when UEFA's observers are not in town. What we see is not rehabilitation but a kind of ingrained sickness which can't be cured by the antibiotic solutions offered so far, but need the treatment equivalent of a flamethrower, to burn the puss and filth away forever.

As long as the green straw remover has a job that club will stink. As long as the menu does not carry eggs Benedict the area around Ibrox Stadium will reek. As long as the guy who cut the grass in the pattern of the Sash still finds employment within the walls those walls will have the odour of sickness. As long as the St John's Ambulance staff cannot wear green, as long as companies like NTL have to change the colours on their corporate logos, as long as fantasies persist about the import of Kentucky Blue Grass and the Xmas menu costs £16.90 that institution will still be stained in the blood of innocents. As long as the youth teams are still taught the words of No Pope of Rome and I Was Born Under A Union Jack, as long as club officials can go abroad to visit supporters clubs and mimic the playing of the flute, as John Greig did, as long as their players can wear armbands in memory of dead terrorists, as did Andy Goram did, as long as club directors can joke about Catholics and the Pope, as did Donald Findlay, they will still stand condemned with the worst kind of sectarian filth. As long as this club goes once a year to the Six Counties for a veritable bigots beano against Linfield, and I can't even imagine what the equivalent tie would look like for us, as long as they can release orange strips and hold events like the bigot backed and bigot financed celebration of the Act of Union, the disease of bigotry will still run through that club like red through a stick of rock.

So, their fans have stopped singing sectarian songs at games, but they did so under threat. Outside the ground many are still their typical, bigoted, reprehensible selves. One only has to look at the Youtube highlights from cities like Barcelona and Villarreal, to see where I am coming from, as these cities played host to gruesome specimens who make the Orcs from Lord of the Rings look civilised. The culture remains the same, but unlike the richly dark fantasy world of our serial killer, which has to remain hidden, the fans of Rangers Football Club do not hide what they're about.

This country has encouraged their view that this type of behaviour is perfectly okay. You can get away with belting out bloody chants in the light of day if you're a Rangers fan. You can act like the worst sort of hooligans, knowing your allies and acolytes in the Scottish press are busy back home, spinning on your behalf and making excuses for what you've done. You can wreck the reputation of Scots abroad in a city like Barcelona, and the press in Scotland will not simply ignore all you did wrong, but defend you against the deserved condemnation of their contemporaries in Spain.

When even Nazi salutes in an Israeli city are first ignored and then spun it's clear that the question "how far is too far?" does not apply here at all. I was surprised, recently, to see a picture of a group of Rangers fans doing the "red hand salute", using the right hand to make the gesture while the forefinger of the left was placed above the lip; I have no doubt some will argue this was, in fact, a "red hand moustache." I think these are deeply sick people. We can only thank God this kind of scum have not yet murdered someone on their travels as they have here, back when, to quote Martin (McGuire) once more, sectarianism was acceptable and not illegal.

Rangers could act swiftly, track these people, ban them, and save us all from embarrassment and potentially serious consequences. They must, after all, have ticket information and such like, and certainly it would not be difficult to track, say, the gargoyles from Tel Aviv, whose "red hand salutes" celebrating Catholic deaths were somehow deemed more acceptable here in Scotland than "Nazi salutes" which celebrated Jewish ones. Have Rangers done so? Of course not, because aided and abetted by media apologists, they see nothing wrong with this sort of behaviour. It is, after all, just "part of their culture."

So two myths dispelled. We are not paranoid, and Rangers have not changed a bit. The chant might say "That's why we're paranoid", but never has our tongue been planted so firmly in our cheek, and I for one love to hear the tune because it's our way of telling them we are on to them, that enough is enough.

Sectarianism is under attack, so say the politicians, and some of them are apparently well meaning and decent. First Minister Alex Salmond has a long and distinguished record of trying to change the law which says Catholics cannot hold certain public offices or sit on the throne; the British state is still a religious state, let us not forget this. Its high officials still owe allegiance to a Crown which doubles as the head of the Church of England.

I wish I could say progress has been made. It's clear that it hasn't, as sectarian bias is more visible, less hidden, than ever before. Part of it, as I've said, is that too many people still don't take the issue seriously. Derek Johnstone cracking his sectarian jokes is not the first example of a media personality thinking this stuff is a laugh. Jim White and Charlie Nicholas were famously caught not long ago, making jokes about the Irish potato famine. Both kept their jobs with Sky Sports, the same channel which immediately sacked Ron Atkinson for making a racist joke, and deservedly so. That White and Nicholas didn't suffer the same fate shows us exactly what we're up against, but it's no surprise. Craig Brown was exposed as a sectarian bigot some years ago whilst National Coach, and the media stood four-square behind him and he kept his job, but his jokes, like those of White and Nicholas, were aimed at the Catholic community, in particular the Irish Catholic community, and therefore not subject to the same "rules" which govern this stuff.

I cannot overstate how angry it still makes me to this day. I thought it, far more than Farry's handling of Cadete's registration, demonstrated to us all exactly where the powers-that-be stand when it comes to who and what we are and represent. They hate us. When we were six hours from dead back in the early 90's these people were waiting to actively dance on our graves. This was why Fergus was so vilified from the moment he walked through the doors. His saving our club from extinction was one of the defining moments in Scottish football history.

Whenever their backs are to the wall, the gloves have come off. During their nine-in-a-row season our side was given a dozen red cards; that record appals me when I look back now, as many of them were utterly disgusting, such as Tosh McKinlay's at Celtic Park, where he literally fell on top of the ball and was sent off for handling it. This season, during the one and only Old Firm game played so far, an astonishing nine of our players were booked. Equally astonishing is the evidence of our own eyes, and the words of the media since; that day they purely and simply bullied us off the ball, and yet our lack of a physical edge resulted in a crime count so bad it would have had Al Capone's lawyer hiding under the bed.

The way we, the fans, are treated is another cause for concern. Twice honoured by footballs powers-that-be, our record at home and abroad is exemplary. Yet Rangers fans, twice charged with misconduct by the European authorities, and already investigated once in Scotland, are the ones widely lauded for their behaviour. Even when UEFA sparked the sectarianism debate full-scale with their overdue investigation of events across town, senior SFA officials and members of the media, including the man who is now General Secretary of the game in this country, did their damndest to drag us into the debate, either blind to the fact it would have increased Scotland's shame had they succeeded or simply so blinded by hatred they just didn't care.

The media conduct during this period was disgusting, absolutely one hundred and ten percent disgusting. It was sickening to hear them as they made pleas on behalf of the bigots amongst Rangers' support, all the while calling for the Gods of War to swoop down on Parkhead. Nothing in recent times has shown us more starkly what our enemies are all about. They will stop at nothing, nothing, to hurt us, even if it drags the whole of Scottish football into the gutter.

They and the League had one chance to make it clear how far they'd really moved on, and failed. The Inverness Caledonia Thistle match at the start of the season showed Rangers' fans at their worst, and yet the machinery of Scottish Football scarcely trembled. Yes, I know an investigation was launched, but upon taking office at the SFA Gordon Smith declared there was no need for that. This came as no surprise to those of us who remembered his behaviour during UEFA's initial investigation, when, as a mere journalist, drummed on about their fans, their rights and their celebration of "culture" with the passion of Donald Findlay defending a mass-killer.

Indeed, men like Findlay don't have to bang their drums very hard to get "justice" for "the people." Sectarianism is treated, by the courts, in the same slipshod manner most serious offences are, with minimal sentences which do nothing to discourage those who commit the acts. Why even bother to put harsher punishments on the statute books if they are never going to be used?

Some of the media are so bitter they are willing to risk their jobs to get the point across. Take Real Radio's very own Idiot-In-Chief, Steve McKenna, whose "Big Jock Knew" comment won him momentary fame and forced an apology on the air. His story about not realising the significance of those words is very like the faint whimpering sounds emanating from SUSA at the present time over their orange wristbands. It's a pathetic excuse, and one that, if true, makes these people unfit to do their jobs. If McKenna truly didn't know about the sick campaign launched by diseased Rangers fans he is the only person in the Scottish media who didn't. He has never adequately explained where he did first hear the phrase or in what context, but certainly he didn't pluck it out of thin air. He too kept his job, of course.

Crack a joke, in a public forum, about the disabled, or about gays, about black folk, about Islam, or about the Jews (unless you claim you're actually making a reference to Ulster) and, rightly, nothing will save you in this day and age. You're gone. Done. Finished. Crack any joke, no matter how off-colour or diseased, about the Irish, Catholics or indeed any major figure associated with the institution of Celtic and a simply apology will keep the wolf from the door. Your employer will not bring you to task, wider society will scarcely tremble, and the law will not move a muscle. You may even get a job on the radio.

But if you're a Celtic fan living in Larkhall, then woe betide you if you leave your car parked with Celtic memorabilia on display. Three days is all it takes now before the police, the police, act to protect the rights of bigots to be bigoted and tow the thing away. This story, which was in the press last week, has once again focussed attention on a town so strange it makes the Twilight Zone seem normal.

It begs the following question:

When the Hell is something going to be done about Larkhall?

[guy crouchback]

me thinks he doth protest too much.

[bennydorano]

Where was that published?  OTT on the whingeing & paranoia.

[zoyler]

A lynchboy I see you too keep up to date with Etims.com - a great site.

As regards the article I was in Pardise on Wednesday night and given the 'standard' of refereeing displayed towards Celtic and what my relatives tell me things have not changed that much since my first visit many years ago when I was advised  to wear my 'tic scarve only in the ground and hide it on the street!

[lynchbhoy]

dont know the guy, was sent this on an email, and while I agree that he may have gone a little heave on emphasis, its his personal perspective and we have to respect that.
Even then, if you look at what he is saying, watering down any over emphasis, its a horrible scenario for anyone to witness or experience over there.
Have to say I have seen this kind of carp myself, as have many friends of mine who have gone over there to Uni,and its not just the west of scotland as this guy says (paranoia saying its just west jockoland) the other examples I have are Dundee,Aberdeen and esp Edinburgh and surrounding regions.

[lynchbhoy]

A lynchboy I see you too keep up to date with Etims.com - a great site.

As regards the article I was in Pardise on Wednesday night and given the 'standard' of refereeing displayed towards Celtic and what my relatives tell me things have not changed that much since my first visit many years ago when I was advised  to wear my 'tic scarve only in the ground and hide it on the street!

it was actually emailed to me, I havent been on etims in a couple of months.

I dont think the referees are that anti celtic. More anti big clubs, but I think that the spl want rangers to win it this year  -think they would prefer any team othe than Celtic or rangers to win it but thats not going to happen, so they want a team other than Celtic to break up the recent hoops domination and rangers fit the bill - well for economic reasons and to keep it a little bit more interesting...a two horse race sells more than a one horse race!

[An Fear Rua]

misleading title, started off well ,and turned into an anti rangers rant, move to the celtic thread??

[lynchbhoy]

misleading title, started off well ,and turned into an anti rangers rant, move to the celtic thread??

thought about putting it there, but its not actually fully Celtic related

but if the mods want to file it in there, fine by me...
just thought this would be a new perspective for people on here, most would not have experienced an opinion on jockoland like this before.

[An Fear Rua]

misleading title, started off well ,and turned into an anti rangers rant, move to the celtic thread??

thought about putting it there, but its not actually fully Celtic related

but if the mods want to file it in there, fine by me...
just thought this would be a new perspective for people on here, most would not have experienced an opinion on jockoland like this before.

Is it really a opinion on Scotland? Reads more like an view on Rangers.
He alludes to the West of Scotland being rife with problems, it would interesting to hear more about whats going on there, or should I say it would be good if he could bring it to public domain. If the evidnce is there, it would be hard for the Scottish Press and Government to ignore it.......?

[lynchbhoy]

misleading title, started off well ,and turned into an anti rangers rant, move to the celtic thread??

thought about putting it there, but its not actually fully Celtic related

but if the mods want to file it in there, fine by me...
just thought this would be a new perspective for people on here, most would not have experienced an opinion on jockoland like this before.

Is it really a opinion on Scotland? Reads more like an view on Rangers.
He alludes to the West of Scotland being rife with problems, it would interesting to hear more about whats going on there, or should I say it would be good if he could bring it to public domain. If the evidnce is there, it would be hard for the Scottish Press and Government to ignore it.......?

have read bits and pieces through the years that would constitute some kind of evidence - cant rem actual details, but by all accounts, the establishment, media, gov dont want to address it.

the eradication of catholic schools being higher on their agenda...

defo , I think if youre interested, you should check it out.
It will make you feel a whole lot better than our shitty country and its incompetence and corruption

[Hurler on the Bitch]

Bit over the top.... The Derek Johnston "Hello, Hello Magazine" is just idle banter....   The writer should ...have a sense of irony and a bit of wit... Things are not that bad.........

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Won't comment on the piece just yet, but don't put it onto the Celtic thread - it is a football thread and I don't want it denegrating into an "us and them" slagging match.
I feel this piece deserves a thread of its own as it highlights issues in Scotland which people here may not be aware of.

[Hound]

misleading title, started off well ,and turned into an anti rangers rant,

I agree. If he'd done a big edit job on it he could have ended up with a decent piece. Instead I end up with the impression that he is clearly biased and therefore can't take anything he says too seriously.

[Gnevin]

Was that rant published , if so can i get my thoughts on chesses published?

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Was that rant published , if so can i get my thoughts on chesses published?

Rooks, bishops and knights by any chance?