Will anyone inn Fianna Fail shout stop?

[AZOffaly]

Nah, talking to Leo.

I picture you as more of a Michael Dee Higgins

[guy crouchback]

In my opinion based on what i have seen and heard regarding Bertie's finances, i believe him to be involved in something dodgy and that he should walk or be pushed.
However this is just my opinion and the reality of the situation is that he has not yet been shown to be involved in bribery or anything illegal.
if FF want to keep him as their leader thats their business the electorlate will get there chance to show how they feel about this.

this whole situation suits Cowen to a tee. it is distracting attention from the economy etc and concentrating on an issue that will be irrelevant by the next election as Bertie will be gone(local elections). As long as he can keep Edna mouthing about this the better as all FG and Labour are doing is personally attacking a very popular man for what will be no electoral gain.

I always thought that when it came to finding Bertie's successor someone would come out of the woodwork and challenge cowen but it is looking like nobody has the support to take him on because if they did they would have called a vote of no confidence in Bertie this week.

[Zapatista]

 

Wish I never asked.

[Zapatista]

In my opinion based on what i have seen and heard regarding Bertie's finances, i believe him to be involved in something dodgy and that he should walk or be pushed.
However this is just my opinion and the reality of the situation is that he has not yet been shown to be involved in bribery or anything illegal.
if FF want to keep him as their leader thats their business the electorlate will get there chance to show how they feel about this.

this whole situation suits Cowen to a tee. it is distracting attention from the economy etc and concentrating on an issue that will be irrelevant by the next election as Bertie will be gone(local elections). As long as he can keep Edna mouthing about this the better as all FG and Labour are doing is personally attacking a very popular man for what will be no electoral gain.

I always thought that when it came to finding Bertie's successor someone would come out of the woodwork and challenge cowen but it is looking like nobody has the support to take him on because if they did they would have called a vote of no confidence in Bertie this week.

It is illegal to hide money from the tax man which has been shown to be true.

[guy crouchback]

It is illegal to hide money from the tax man which has been shown to be true.

I always thought it was, but as of yet i have heard of no garda or revenue investigation nor have i heard the opposition call for Bertie to be charged

[Bogball XV]

In fact I much prefer the policy of FF but I just don't trust them to do what the say.

Seriously??  What policies do they have?

Here -  http://www.finegael.ie/uploads/docs/Policy_Briefings_November_2006.pdf

Now lets get back on track. This thread is not about anyone other than FF. It is about the disgusting and criminal behaviour of B Ahern and is anyone wihtin FF willing to do the right thing and put and end to this madness.

Do you have anything to say on the topic?

Ah, that's FG policies you've shown me!!  As for the whether I've anything to say on the topic, I've said plenty in all the other threads on this and similar topics over the past few years, I'm saying no more - they finally wore me down!! 
Seriously, it's all a bit irrelevant, he'll be gone before June in my estimation.

[Leo]

No I am not Leo Aradkar as the more reasoned posts from me should demonstrate.

[Lar Naparka]

Let's assume a politician is being investigated for taking bribes .....
In the course of the investigation strong evidence emerges that he has committed murder....
What would we do? Refer this to Gardai or DPP?
No no - according to the the FF mantra, we must wait whatever number of years it takes for the Tribunal report.

Or lets assume the investigation uncovers evidence that the politician is part of Al Quaeda which has plans afoot to blow up planes heading for New York.
Should we use the evidence that has emerged to stop this impending disaster?
Oh no,, say FF, we have to wait for the report....

Leo, I think any reasonable person would agree with you there.
However, there is an important difference between your hypotheses and what is happening in the case of the Mahon Tribunal hearings..
The tribunal is an enquiry into certain allegations that have been made; it is not a court of law.
The late Liam Lawlor and Ray Burke both found to their cost that the tribunals they faced were not to be trifled with and the scope and comprehensivenss of their research took them by surprise. Indeed I'd say all Fianna Fail is feeling the same way now.
Have you noticed that the mantra has changed a lot in recent times?
Now we are been told by senior cabinet members that this tribunal should be wound up forthwith in view of the money and time it is taking.
For some reason, none of them has mentioned even once that the undue delay and most of the considerable expense can be blamed on witnesses who are proving very un-co-operative and reluctant to help the tribunal in any way.
Given his remit as chairman of this inquiry, it is Alan Mahon's call as to whether Bertie Ahern's behaviour should be investigated by either the Gardai or the DPP.
If Justice Mahon decides at any time to send papers to either party I'm sure he will do so, but the outcome of this action will not be decided by him but in the courts as is right and proper.

[Zapatista]

All great points but do you not think the Tribunal has uncovered enough evidence to prove Ahern is not fit for office this very minute. The Tribunal can continue with Ahern in a job as a taxi driver. There is more tan enough evidence to take him out of office now. He must go.

[Bogball XV]

All great points but do you not think the Tribunal has uncovered enough evidence to prove Ahern is not fit for office this very minute. The Tribunal can continue with Ahern in a job as a taxi driver. There is more tan enough evidence to take him out of office now. He must go.

The funny thing is Ahern couldn't actually take on the job of taxi driver at the minute - he can't get a tax clearance certificate

[Zapatista]

Is anyone that ever fund raised or donated to FF in any way upset that FF give 30K to Aherns mistress to buy a house? Or would anyone be upset at this if their own chosen party did it?

BogballXV would ye have a look at the question above and for my own peace of mind (this sort of stuff is really driving me crazy) give me an answer? Please.

[his holiness nb]

Is anyone that ever fund raised or donated to FF in any way upset that FF give 30K to Aherns mistress to buy a house? Or would anyone be upset at this if their own chosen party did it?

BogballXV would ye have a look at the question above and for my own peace of mind (this sort of stuff is really driving me crazy) give me an answer? Please.

Do we know that Bogball has fundraised or donated to FF?
If not why press him for the answer to this?

[Zapatista]

Is anyone that ever fund raised or donated to FF in any way upset that FF give 30K to Aherns mistress to buy a house? Or would anyone be upset at this if their own chosen party did it?

BogballXV would ye have a look at the question above and for my own peace of mind (this sort of stuff is really driving me crazy) give me an answer? Please.

Do we know that Bogball has fundraised or donated to FF?
If not why press him for the answer to this?

The second part of my question covers this HH.
I would just like to know if he thinks it would be wrong for someone to do this. Not necessarily FF but if you or me or David Cameron or anyone did such a thing.

[Lar Naparka]

All great points but do you not think the Tribunal has uncovered enough evidence to prove Ahern is not fit for office this very minute.

Obviously, Zap, I sure do agree with you!
It has to be kept in mind that we are not talking about a court of law and Mahon does not have the task of deciding Ahern's culpability in any of the matters that has been discussed. That's the main point I have been making here.
The Judge in charge, Alan Mahon, may at any time refer a matter to the High Court to determine a point of law or send papers relating to some aspect of the case to the DPP but that is all he is empowered to do. He won't, and can't, make any judicial decision.
IMO, the judge is playing a blinder and the very same has to be said about his team of researchers; what they have unearthed must be causing a lot of other politicians many sleepless nights. lest they too get an 'invitation' to come along to discuss matters.
I would imagine that most reasonable people would feel that Bertie's position is no longer tenable and that, sooner or later, he will have to go.
Probably that will be sooner than we might think, if the Fianna fail party feel his goose has been well and truly cooked. They don't do sentiment or loyalty to old friends and benefactors in that organisation.
I think that one reason that Judge Mahon has not referred any matter before him to any other quarter, as yet, is because he deems it most important to conclude his investigations before doing anything that would hinder his investigations. I'd also imagine that the Revenue authorities are keeping a very close eye on proceedings.
A last point here; hearing that a 'loan' of 30K to was given to Celia Larkin is one thing that may upset most of us but, in itself, it is not a crime.
Very likely, the Revenue authorities will get involved at an appropriate time but unless Fianna Fail trustees or whatever section of the part administration is concerned with the management of party funds get a conscience there is nothing illegal involved.
Knowing something is wrong is one thing, but proving it in a court of law is quite another!

[bcarrier]

FG should be careful for what they wish for.  The Biffo will make mincemeat of inda.