Protein

[BallyhaiseMan]

Lynchbhoy

a perfect example of a player bulking up and not losing speed would be Shane Ryan, at 6ft hes close to 15 Stone now and he just been getting quicker each year even though the weight is also increasing.

The Dublin team and their physical development over the past 4/5 years for me should be the benchmark for any team or player looking to bulk up.All of them have gotten noticeabely Stronger and Bigger and in alot of cases Faster,
I know they havent won that coveted All Ireland,But i dont think anyone would put that down to a lack of Fitness.

[lynchbhoy]

Lynchbhoy

a perfect example of a player bulking up and not losing speed would be Shane Ryan, at 6ft hes close to 15 Stone now and he just been getting quicker each year even though the weight is also increasing.

The Dublin team and their physical development over the past 4/5 years for me should be the benchmark for any team or player looking to bulk up.All of them have gotten noticeabely Stronger and Bigger and in alot of cases Faster,
I know they havent won that coveted All Ireland,But i dont think anyone would put that down to a lack of Fitness.

was thinking of him really when posting this, but too many other Dub players have bulked up and have not been effective - so for every 10 , theres one shane ryan..

[lynchbhoy]

Footballers don't do long sprints either, in a study done recently on the movement of footballers during a match, players on average ran intensly for 6 seconds followed by 36 seconds recovery. Like I've said there is no one size fits all principle here, Colm Cooper does alright for himself despite being very light on the other hand Tommy Walsh looks like a prototype SS soldier and he too is doing fine. The point is, any training program should be designed to improve the player as a footballer and weight training has a big role to play here but only within a wider program of flexibility, endurance, agility, power and of course skill development. The problem isn't weight training but the type of weight training players do, you can get a bit bigger and leaner before then developing power/speed which will add little if any bulk to you.

I'd disagree with walsh, a huge frame but as a kid still hes almost as skinny as Cooper !

but the rest of it is fine and I'd be happy with lads doing proper training and improving strength and not size.

however in practice what is happening all over the country ....lads are thinking they have to get bigger , you know what I mean !

The football matches are going tobe like 30 arnies against each other at slow motion speed if the GAA dont start to embrace a more sensible approach as you have depicted in your last post.

I'd be all for outlawing it completely and staying au natural rather than lads going the other way - the swarzenegger route !

[Zulu]

Following the first reports by Harris et al. (1992), that PCr content in human muscle can increase up to 50% following daily CrS (5 g Cr monohydrate 4-6 × day for ³ 2 days), a number of studies have examined the effects of CrS on muscle metabolism and/or high-intensity exercise performance. Studies that have measured muscle total creatine (TCr) (phosphocreatine + creatine) have reported an elevation in TCr after CrS involving loading phases of 20-30 g· day-1 for 3-6 days. Some studies found that both resting TCr and PCr content increased (McKenna et al., 1999; Smith et al., 1999; Kurosawa et al., 2003), whereas others reported significant increases in only TCr (Greenhaff et al., 1994; Becque et al., 2000) or PCr (Smith et al., 1998; Stout et al., 2000). Theoretically, an increase in TCr stores may provide an ergogenic effect during high intensity exercise by enhancing the rate of ATP synthesis during contraction and by improving the rate of PCr resynthesis during recovery, which may be beneficial for repeated sprint activity. A recent investigation by Mujika et al. (2000) supports such a contention, concluding that acute CrS favourably affected repeated sprint performance and limited the decay in jumping ability in highly trained soccer players. However, on the whole, experimental evidence supporting an ergogenic effect for CrS is somewhat mixed. Several studies have demonstrated improved high-intensity exercise performance after CrS (Dawson et al., 1995; Meir, 1995; Jacobs et al., 1997; Vandenberghe et al., 1997; Volek et al., 1999; Mujika et al., 2000), whereas others have reported no beneficial effects (Barnett et al., 1995; Snow et al., 1998; Deutekom et al., 2000; Gilliam et al., 2000; Finn et al., 2001; Syrotuik et al., 2001; Biwer et al., 2003).

The quote below is an important point for all lads looking for a training edge, when you read an article that says something like.."studies have reported a 10% improvement in performance from [whatever].." you must realize that the studies might have tested a total of only 30 people and may have not been well controlled or have had different methodologies etc. and therefore may not be comparable. The first creatine study was done on 5 people and much of what is said about creatine comes from that study. Think of it like this, if you went into Dublin city and randomly asked 5 people what their favourite band was and 3 of them said Boyzone do you think it would be fair to say 3/5ths of Dublin's population are Boyzone fans?

Lemon, (2002)indicates that a variety of factors including, but not limited to, sample size, exercise modality, rest and recovery intervals, residual effects of cessation of CrS, non-responders, gender and age effects and methodology used, make any interpretation of existing Cr literature extremely difficult.

It does not appear that CrS increases maximal isometric strength, the rate of maximal force production, nor aerobic exercise performance. Therefore, at this point in time CrS appears to be a safe nutritional strategy that may enhance exercise performance in sports participants requiring maximal single effort and/or repetitive sprint bouts. However, further research should focus on gaining a better understanding of the mechanisms of action that elevated Cr stores have on energetics and metabolism.

I've put into to quotes the relevant points from a review of creatine supplementation studies carried out by Stephen Bird - CREATINE SUPPLEMENTATION AND EXERCISE PERFORMANCE: A BRIEF REVIEW (if anyone wants to check out the full article).

The main point I'd make to lads who are thinking about getting supplements  is any kind of supplementation is only benefical (if ever), when you are training at a high intensity regularly and even then probably only if you are not eating a good diet as well. While I do flip flop about this issue myself, because there is much conflicting information out there, I think the best thing for most lads training for GAA is too save their money and spend it the something else.

[Minder]

Zulu.......What are the best foods to eat immediately after doing weights? i go out running during the week and dont do any cardio work at all when i am in the gym. Firms like Maximuscle tell you it is imperative to get their products fired into you immediately after a workout to repair damaged muscle tissue. I just eat a couple of bananas as i dont fancy paying £30 for a tub of protein.

[BallyhaiseMan]

Creatine tastes like shit, cant stomach it.

[Zulu]

Zulu.......What are the best foods to eat immediately after doing weights? i go out running during the week and dont do any cardio work at all when i am in the gym. Firms like Maximuscle tell you it is imperative to get their products fired into you immediately after a workout to repair damaged muscle tissue. I just eat a couple of bananas as i dont fancy paying £30 for a tub of protein.

The body's ability to build muslce is elevated immediately after a workout so it is important to get protien and carbs into your system as soon as you can. Obviously a protein powder is a convenient way of doing this but a white bread chicken sandwhich is fine too or even a glass of milk. I don't think there is any harm is using protein powders or creatine but I doubt it is very benefical for most lads, eat a good balanced diet all week and train hard and you'll achieve all your goals, regardless of what they are. I sometimes have to laugh when lads ask me about using creatine to get an extra edge when they are probably training and playing in a seriously dehydrated state. i.e they are trying to run before they can walk.

[the Deel Rover]

must have a drank a bit too much last night thought this thread was about poitin

[Zulu]

Just remember DD these company's are businesses so they need you to consume as much as possible if they are going to make as much money as possible. If your diet is ok I'd say you have little need for any more protein but if you do use a powder only use it directly after your workout as a quick and convenient way of getting protein into your system. Any more than that and you'll probably piss it down the toilet.

[DaUmpire]

There has been a lot of info so far as regards how much protein to take (in grams) but no-one has really stressed how often you need to take these protein shakes.  I am currently taking Maximuscle Cyclone, it says to take it twice a day but can anyone confirm if this is just on training days or should you even be taking it on your rest days?  Also, anyone no any other protein shakes that are as good/similar to the maximuscle Cyclone product but not as expensive 

Taking Maximuscle Cyclone twice a day as far as i know is all you need. You find it working? was thinking of trying it myself. iam currently taking maximuscle promax, does the job, take it mostly after weights but it recommends taking it every 3 hours even on rest days. A tin of beans are just as good as most shakes for providing protein after workouts.

[INDIANA]

Lads I'd only take protein after training or weights- this idea of loading up on it on days off is bollox- and studies have proven that. Speed is king in Gaelic Football lads don't forget that.
Nigh on impossible to build muscle 6 months into the season. You need a good 6 week run at it when you're not training. Once you bump it up by a stone- I wouldn't bother putting on anymore because you'll struggle to carry it. You need to be strong but protein won't teach you to kick the ball properly. This is not rugby union- thats a different sport altogether where you need excess bulk simply for protection rather than for anything else.
Look at guys like dooher and galvin- prototype  modern gaelic footballers. strong and fast -that should be the aim. I'd also be extremely wary of any products from the US (in fact I wouldn't use them)- the US supplements are largely unregulated and remember where most steroids originate from. The US.

[Tony Baloney]

Zulu.......What are the best foods to eat immediately after doing weights? i go out running during the week and dont do any cardio work at all when i am in the gym. Firms like Maximuscle tell you it is imperative to get their products fired into you immediately after a workout to repair damaged muscle tissue. I just eat a couple of bananas as i dont fancy paying £30 for a tub of protein.

You must be eating more than a couple of bananas Minder