Cork players threaten strike over selectors issue

[quidnunc]

Uladh, you are misrepresenting me.

I cited Nickey Brennan's comments in reply to DubsForSam's reference to "what the GPA/GAA say about not looking for pay for play". This is relevant because it shows that even officials who have tried to accommodate the GPA - when a gun was put to their heads - do not trust them. And if you think that Nickey is entirely "unconnected to the issue", you are naive. Who do you think authorised the intervention of Kieran Mulvey and Paraic Duffy in Cork? Who has to speak on behalf of the GAA and to ultimately carry the can for the association amid this strike and its consequences for the association?

While they may have some legitimate grievances, the Cork players - well, the hurlers at least - have not shown "admirable" motives and intentions. There has been no change to the hurling management system, yet at the drop of the hat they waded into someone else's battle. If this was a hurling issue they might have more support. They have got too greedy for power. Calls for officials to resign are not just misguided methods; they reveal far-from-admirable intentions of getting rid of anybody they don't like.

I don't really have a problem with the Cork footballers' position. They understandably feel disadvantaged by recent decisions. And none of them comes across as being firebrands. Unlike certain Cork hurlers.

And you are also wrong about Teddy Holland, Uladh. He may have made a mistake, he may be stubborn, but he has been stigmatised for the rest of his life because of his alleged mistake, which was really only a small incident in a war between certain Cork hurlers and the board. And he does not have the free cars/sponsorship potential of the Cork hurlers (who he was not going to manage). And despite all of this we have not heard him say one thing offensive to anybody.

TH is in an impossible position. If he stays on, Cork people and some reactionaries in the media will blame him for everything wrong in Cork. If he quits, it comes across as an admission that he did something seriously wrong. And if he has a wider view of the association he may also realise the consequences of his stepping down in terms of encouraging further overstated stunts of player power. I genuinely don't think he had any idea of how much weight would be put on his shoulders, whatever about his alleged mistake.

[Gnevin]

Uladh, you are misrepresenting me.


While they may have some legitimate grievances, the Cork players - well, the hurlers at least - have not shown "admirable" motives and intentions. There has been no change to the hurling management system, yet at the drop of the hat they waded into someone else's battle. If this was a hurling issue they might have more support. They have got too greedy for power. Calls for officials to resign are not just misguided methods; they reveal far-from-admirable intentions of getting rid of anybody they don't like.

That changes where for Football and Hurling , so hurlers have the same issues as the footballs albeit without a management change this year

[feetofflames]

And you are also wrong about Teddy Holland, Uladh. He may have made a mistake, he may be stubborn, but he has been stigmatised for the rest of his life because of his alleged mistake, which was really only a small incident in a war between certain Cork hurlers and the board. And he does not have the free cars/sponsorship potential of the Cork hurlers (who he was not going to manage). And despite all of this we have not heard him say one thing offensive to anybody.

TH is in an impossible position. If he stays on, Cork people and some reactionaries in the media will blame him for everything wrong in Cork. If he quits, it comes across as an admission that he did something seriously wrong. And if he has a wider view of the association he may also realise the consequences of his stepping down in terms of encouraging further overstated stunts of player power. I genuinely don't think he had any idea of how much weight would be put on his shoulders, whatever about his alleged mistake.

An oustanding contribution to the debate.  It also begs the question about the hurlers strike.  They would have had one year to challenge the proposal through the correct and clearly defined structures of the clubs and the GAA, and if they believed in these structures and their cause they would have won their fight, but they chose to form a union with the footballers and strike.  Did it do anything than make a bad situation worse and unsave able.  The straw that broke the camels back was  this management issue; it is very much a power struggle, it is every bit an attempted coup; it is a forewarning to Cork county board to stay out of County team and GPA  affairs; Its a test case for the GPA this one whether they simply lent their support to it or indeed  instigated it is a question for those at the core to answer.  Whatever teddy Holland do or didnt do he has a very small part to play in this, except that he may well be left with the face saving blame in a heavily media portrayed and very public spat where he is unbelievably the only party yet to open his mouth.   

[agorm]

When are Cork due to play the Dubs? According to www.gaa.ie it is next Saturday but I think that the radio said the weekend after next. If it is next weekend the deadline for their participation is fast approaching.

[passedit]

However, the thing is that bob honohan has a lot of previous with billy morgan. Back in 1991, one year after Morgan had led cork to its first ever four in row in munster and two in a row AI and the second leg of the double, Cork were sensationally dumped out of the first round of munster by a p**s-poor kerry team. At the following autumn convention, honohan led a charge that morgan was not fit for office, so to speak, and produced a charge sheet that included drinking with the players and other misdemeanours, and in his efforts to unseat morgan he received the support of a number of exc utive delegates, including the late con murphy.

the exc utive produced an alternative team management for the 1992 season, which included among others Teddy Holland and Liam Hodnett. Following a public outcry and intervention by ray cummins among others IIRC, the board backed down big style and so did Teddy, Liam and the others. Remember that. Teddy backed down when told to do so by the board.

[Zulu]

And you are also wrong about Teddy Holland, Uladh. He may have made a mistake, he may be stubborn, but he has been stigmatised for the rest of his life because of his alleged mistake, which was really only a small incident in a war between certain Cork hurlers and the board. And he does not have the free cars/sponsorship potential of the Cork hurlers (who he was not going to manage). And despite all of this we have not heard him say one thing offensive to anybody.

That is missing the point completely, the players rightly or wrongly stated that they wouldn't play under the new system, they then asked that no-one take up a position on the football backroom team until their grievances were addressed. So to ignore that wish and take on the job under the CB proposal was to give the players the two fingers. How did TH expect to develop a working relationship with those same players after that? Regardless of the justification for the players statement prior to TH appointment the players are 100% right not to play for a man who so blatantly ignored their (reasonable) request for time to solve the outstanding issues.

TH is in an impossible position. If he stays on, Cork people and some reactionaries in the media will blame him for everything wrong in Cork. If he quits, it comes across as an admission that he did something seriously wrong.

He did do something seriously wrong.

And if he has a wider view of the association he may also realise the consequences of his stepping down in terms of encouraging further overstated stunts of player power. I genuinely don't think he had any idea of how much weight would be put on his shoulders, whatever about his alleged mistake.

Nonsense, another 'thin edge of the wedge' argument, players will always play if they are being correctly supported by the people who's job it is to support them. If a similar situation occurred in another county then those players would be entitled to withdraw their services also

[Gnevin]

When are Cork due to play the Dubs? According to www.gaa.ie it is next Saturday but I think that the radio said the weekend after next. If it is next weekend the deadline for their participation is fast approaching.

Its this saturday 16th

[quidnunc]

He did do something seriously wrong.

No, he did not do something "seriously wrong". He did not commit a crime, threaten anyone, physically or verbally abuse anyone or do anything deliberately against the GAA in Cork or anywhere else. At worst he made a mistake which has been seriously conflated out of proportion by certain malevolent interests. When he took the job, even if it was mistake, it would not have been unreasonable for him to think that the board and the footballers would sort out their differences anyway. His biggest mistake was to not realise quite how unreasonable some of the protagonists, chiefly certain Cork hurlers, are, and to not realise that these hurlers would continue to push their twisted agenda at all costs.

Nonsense, another 'thin edge of the wedge' argument, players will always play if they are being correctly supported by the people who's job it is to support them. If a similar situation occurred in another county then those players would be entitled to withdraw their services also

Yes of course they're entitled to "withdraw their services", but that's not what they're doing. They're on "strike" and holding out a veiled threat to anyone who would try to play in their places. Even though quite a number of them had no right to assume they would be picked for the panel this year anyway.

Ultimately, if certain hurlers had stayed out of this, this whole mess would almost certainly have been solved long ago, because the more reasonable footballers would have been willing to reach a compromise with the county board.

[feetofflames]

End Game
If Cork unfortunately are removed from the national league, a new County executive should be appointed at an EGM. In the short term this executive should appoiont a new management team on last years rules and a panel of 60 players should be drawn up to try out for for the right to represent Cork football by the new management in the championship.  That panel should be selected on the basis of trial games etc. so that the biggest county in Ireland are represented in the AI 2008.  Anyone who withdraws from the panel or does not trial out does not make the cut.  Any existing problems ie ccb or players or indeed manager  should not be allowed to influence.  They have made whatever their point was. 

[DUBSFORSAM1]

So let me get this right - according to quidinc if the hurlers had been good little boys and let the footballers get shafted everything would have been alright in the world...

Would love to have know how come it is only in Cork that these issues happen???

[feetofflames]

according to quidinc if the hurlers had been good little boys and let the footballers get shafted everything would have been alright in the world...
You just make it sound like a power trip too

[Zulu]

No, he did not do something "seriously wrong". He did not commit a crime, threaten anyone, physically or verbally abuse anyone or do anything deliberately against the GAA in Cork or anywhere else. At worst he made a mistake which has been seriously conflated out of proportion by certain malevolent interests. When he took the job, even if it was mistake, it would not have been unreasonable for him to think that the board and the footballers would sort out their differences anyway. His biggest mistake was to not realise quite how unreasonable some of the protagonists, chiefly certain Cork hurlers, are, and to not realise that these hurlers would continue to push their twisted agenda at all costs.

After all the debate that has gone on, people are still coming out with this rubbish. TH kicked the players while they were down, now maybe I'm being a bit melodramatic when I say that but to call what he did a mistake is naive in the extreme and an insult to TH intelligence. No-one with any experience of running a team could have made that 'mistake' and TH has plenty experience of the player V CB issues down in Cork, so he would have been more than aware of how the players were likely to react to his decision.

Yes of course they're entitled to "withdraw their services", but that's not what they're doing. They're on "strike" and holding out a veiled threat to anyone who would try to play in their places. Even though quite a number of them had no right to assume they would be picked for the panel this year anyway.

Ultimately, if certain hurlers had stayed out of this, this whole mess would almost certainly have been solved long ago, because the more reasonable footballers would have been willing to reach a compromise with the county board.

It is the footballers who are insisting on TH standing down, of that I can assure you. The hurlers are supporting the footballers because it is an issue which affects them also and the players are well aware that it has to be a case of untied they stand divided they fall in any conflict with the CB. Oh and by the way can you furnish us with some proof of your allegation that the players are issuing 'veiled threats' to prospective panellists.

End Game
If Cork unfortunately are removed from the national league, a new County executive should be appointed at an EGM. In the short term this executive should appoiont a new management team on last years rules and a panel of 60 players should be drawn up to try out for for the right to represent Cork football by the new management in the championship.  That panel should be selected on the basis of trial games etc. so that the biggest county in Ireland are represented in the AI 2008.  Anyone who withdraws from the panel or does not trial out does not make the cut.  Any existing problems ie ccb or players or indeed manager  should not be allowed to influence.  They have made whatever their point was.  

More pie in the sky rubbish, I have spoken to numerous club players in Cork and while some tell me that they heard a few lads say they would play if asked, all the likely replacements are adamant that they won't. I personally know lads that would certainly be in the shake up of an alternative panel and they won't play.

[orangeman]

I would love to be a fly on the wall at tonight's meeting ! Any white smoke yet ?

[glenullinabu]

I would love to be a fly on the wall at tonight's meeting ! Any white smoke yet ?

i wouldnt expect it to be a religeous experience orangeman

[Bacon]

The legendary Frank Murphy has done it again!

I just got a txt from Cork explaining what they're up to at the meeting. Frank is seeking a ruling that the original appointment of TH was procedurally flawed and is therefore null & void.

Brilliant! The man is a genius.