The IRA does everything...

[DMarsden]

Talk of political endorsements couldn't be more irrelevent to the ordinary man. in a day to day context, the only type that matters, there is no precedent or encourgement for people to come forward, point the finger at a republican and receive wholehearted support from republican circles for doing the right thing. the impression remains that every clown with a republican link is beyond accountability for everything from money & diesel laundering to antisocial behaviour of the most sickening nature.

[brokencrossbar1]

Answer me this DMarsden, say for talk sake that everyone felt compelled to come forward, what are they going to tell the police?

This young lad was beaten to death in a remote country farm, the only witnesses to the event would have been the perpetrators, they were probably masked, all the specualtion of the day cannot convict someone.

I feel sympathy for the family and disgust towards the thugs who did it, but calling on encouraging people to come forward is naive of the nature of events.  This is not like the McCartney case where someone was fighting in a public bar, it was deliberately kept secretive to avoid detection.

[pintsofguinness]

Lads, Who or what is the IRA anymore? is it the people who were involved in the troubles and are still members or are new people joining and if so for what?

In south armagh the people who'd tell you they were the IRA are those, like Keith Rodgers, who were children when the ceasefires took place but who find the name of the IRA useful to carry out criminal activities (i.e. smuggling) and to threaten their criminal rivals.

Lynch

they have backed SF's endorsement of the psni (now fully looking like it was the load of bollix the dissidents at that time claimed it was)

the prob is these people that are masquerading under the pretense of being IRA (when IRA does not actually function any more, and cannot) and are the ones intimidating locals
but the psni , even when told are quite happy to do nothing about it.

Sinn Fein backing the PSNI is no good when the allow these thugs to become members and be their public face i.e. you'll get them at the doors at election time.

[Aghdavoyle]

Marsden is 100% correct imho.

are you saying that lets say a farmer who saw vehicles and registrations going to that diesel laundering plant, sorry remote farm house, should not come forward and say so? he absolutely should and anyone else who may have seen the tiniest detail should too. if we're any good at all we should then be standing shoulder to shoulder with them

[Chrisowc]

Marsden is 100% correct imho.

are you saying that lets say a farmer who saw vehicles and registrations going to that diesel laundering plant, sorry remote farm house, should not come forward and say so? he absolutely should and anyone else who may have seen the tiniest detail should too. if we're any good at all we should then be standing shoulder to shoulder with them

So then charges are brought and maybe one or two end up with a conviction.  What happens to this farmer?  The police are powerless without credible information and the public are understandably reluctant to pass this information on.  A vicious circle were the vigilante rules.

[Sandy Hill]

So did Keith Rogers die a criminal or a hero?

Who was Keith Rogers and what happened to him? According to a Republican website he was a role model and a hero!

[pintsofguinness]

To quote myself...

Pints.  Not too sure what you're getin at.  I thought Keith Rogers was defending his community or something like that.  There is a march every year for him which is well attended.  I have to admit I don't know all the facts of that one, so you might let me know.

Aye that's what the ceasefire soldiers would have you believe.  Keith Rodgers was 16 in 1994 - who do you think he was fighting? 
He belonged to a smuggling gang of ceasefire soldiers, he took a gun to go and shoot a member of another smuggling gang, the man he was going to shoot took the gun of him and shot him in self defence.

[Evil Genius]

So did Keith Rogers die a criminal or a hero?

Who was Keith Rogers and what happened to him? According to a Republican website he was a role model and a hero!

According to a (usually well-informed) journalist, Rogers and the circumstances of his death were not all that some would have us believe:

IRA rift led to gunfightmurder

Henry McDonald, Ireland editor
Sunday March 16, 2003

Observer

A member of the IRA's Army Council sent out the men who were killed and wounded in a shoot-out in south Armagh last week.
The leading figure ordered one of the Provisional IRA's units, an eight-man 'punishment' squad armed with baseball bats and guns, to attack a number of men who were also aligned to its south Armagh brigade.

Contrary to media reports that the shooting at Cullaville last Wednesday was a dispute between the IRA and 'criminal elements', the gunfight outside a petrol station involved rival Provos. One of those who fired back at the 'punishment squad' is the former commanding officer of an IRA battalion in south Armagh.

The murder of 24-year-old Keith Rogers, from Hackballscross, marks the most serious split in the IRA since the Real IRA was formed in 1997. Those behind his murder did not belong to any dissident republican group and until very recently had remained loyal to the Provisionals' leadership.

The murdered man and his comrades were said to be loyal to the member of the Army Council. Officially the dispute is over the use of land close to his property which straddles the border. But disagreements have been simmering for some time in the region over the proceeds of money from smuggling.

One republican family in south Armagh with a reputation for violence and dedication to the 'armed struggle' has been vociferous in its criticism of the leadership. Security and republican sources say this family commands respect among IRA members who share its misgivings about current policies and the concentration of wealth in the hands of a leading figure in the south Armagh brigade.

Two weeks ago the squad that targeted this family attacked another member of the republican family who was shot in both ankles and elbows. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4626209-102285,00.html

P.S. Rogers was 15 when the IRA announced their (final) ceasefire. That means he was recruited, trained and "deployed" after SF told us that the IRA was now committed to exclusively peaceful activities...

[thebandit]

[In south armagh the people who'd tell you they were the IRA are those, like Keith Rodgers, who were children when the ceasefires took place but who find the name of the IRA useful to carry out criminal activities (i.e. smuggling) and to threaten their criminal rivals.

Pints, Keith Rogers was 24/25 when he died I think

[lynchbhoy]

Lynch

they have backed SF's endorsement of the psni (now fully looking like it was the load of bollix the dissidents at that time claimed it was)

the prob is these people that are masquerading under the pretense of being IRA (when IRA does not actually function any more, and cannot) and are the ones intimidating locals
but the psni , even when told are quite happy to do nothing about it.

Sinn Fein backing the PSNI is no good when the allow these thugs to become members and be their public face i.e. you'll get them at the doors at election time.

Thats what I mean POG.
I was completely against supporting the ruc/psni - as I hadnt seen anything change

but we were told by SF that this was to change, that they had to make the leap of faith (yet again) and things would change.
Well this still has not happened.
the powers at the top of the tree in the ruc/psni still cling on to their posts and power, the wholesale reform of this corrupt institution has yet to happen.
I am getting a lot of flack from friends and relations for talking up the need for all nationalists and republicans to back the 'psni', this 'leap of faith' has been a f**king disaster as I get daily reports on Derry city being left to thugs and the only time the cops are seen is when a couple of harmless kids fight in the city centre of a saturday night and they arrest 1 !
other times theres traffic stopping police roadblocks/speed and licence checks on the city side to annoy the taigs on their way home from shopping at 5-7pm on a sat evening.
Also the comments made to provoke people that should never come from an impartial police force.
Fcuk its getting worse, and while the leap of faith for the ceasefire and also for the decommissioning was proven to be a good move - this one to support the psni has backfired disasterously as they are still the ruc in b special mentality mode.

From what I am hearing, this is the same in the republican hotbeds throughout NI. 

its just sad that these cops and orange order/loyalist/unionists cannot let go of the past like we have and be impartial - as is their job (as its not the nationalist/catholic cops that are at fault here)

[thebandit]

I'm getting a bit sick of hearing that the row in which Keith Rogers died happened at a petrol station. It started there but the shot was fired across the road at the entrance to Malachy Conlon Park. Rogers wasnt shot by his own gun either. This stuff is common knowledge. At the time the newspapers just regurgitated each other's information

[An Fear Rua]

cant help but wonder if this had happened in Cork or Limerick would the DUP be as keen to scaremonger on collapsing an executive?

Its a Garda issue isnt it? Murdered in Monaghan?

[nifan]

The people fighting in the city centre on a Saturday night are the thugs Lynchboy.

[pintsofguinness]

[In south armagh the people who'd tell you they were the IRA are those, like Keith Rodgers, who were children when the ceasefires took place but who find the name of the IRA useful to carry out criminal activities (i.e. smuggling) and to threaten their criminal rivals.

Pints, Keith Rogers was 24/25 when he died I think

He was 24, leaving him 15 in 1994 when the IRA first declared their ceasefire.
I don't see what it matters if people say it happened at the petrol station, as it was across the street from the petrol station.

Ketih Rogers with several other men went to shoot a criminal rival, the gun was taken off him in a struggle and he was shot!
Fact
And the amount of shite talk about him at the time, and still, is sickening.
A soldier of Ireland my hole!

[Candyman]

Paul Quinns wake was massive lastnite, young lads out directing traffic etc...
Thing i was surprised most by was the coffin was opened, but with a white/see-through veil covering the body!!
Dont quote me on this but the reports of Pauls friends gathering at the house of one of the suspects is meant to be a load of b8lls, made up by the owner???#
The young lad was a bit of a maggot, but nobody deserved that!!!