Allianz

[mackers]

There will be consequences. But I don't see them as unmanageable.

But it is nonsense to suggest no other potential sponsors exist.

It is nonsense to suggest that if the GAA end the sponsorship that Allianz will immediately end the insurance.

It is also nonsense to suggest that there are no other insurance options out there.

You are buying Jarlaths bullshit.

There's no doubt that there would be other sponsors available.
We don't know if the GAA ended the sponsorship that Allianz will immediately end the insurance and if there were plentiful options on the insurance front I'd take a punt on it.
It is NOT nonsense to say that there are no other insurance options out there. As I've said a Central Council delegate informed a meeting I was at that they were the only company willing to offer terms at the last renewal. I'll take his word on that over yours as he would be a lot more informed than you.
You're implying that Jarlath is LYING on this and there was talk earlier by other posters about brown envelopes.  Even if this was tongue in cheek I don't think we should be questioning his integrity or that of any other volunteer at the top of our organisation.  Question their judgement all you like but I think accusations of poor integrity or lying are uncalled for.

[Baile Brigín 2]

I wasn't suggesting that all 178 insurance companies operating in Ireland are direct options.

But equally it is literally mental to suggest that if the GAA pull the sponsorship, Allianz will pull the insurance and the GAA will have to cease operations, which was the argument I was responding to.

It certainly read like you were suggesting 178 alternatives existed.
Also, do you know what the effect of Allianz pulling insurance would be on the GAA? My post was speculative as I admit to having no knowledge of the consequences. Whereas you paint the picture that everything will be perfectly OK and the GAA could get out of the sponsorship very easily, an argument I find dishonest.
It certainly read like you were suggesting 178 alternatives existed.
Also, do you know what the effect of Allianz pulling insurance would be on the GAA? My post was speculative as I admit to having no knowledge of the consequences. Whereas you paint the picture that everything will be perfectly OK and the GAA could get out of the sponsorship and insurance very easily, an argument I find dishonest.
If the GAA is disassociating itself from the sponsor, it would surely have to stop doing business with them i.e. refuse or revoke the insurance with them. The sponsor would not be pulling the insurance the GAA would be. Or perhaps it is acceptable to pay for services from genocide enablers but refuse to take their money for sponsorship.

There will be consequences. But I don't see them as unmanageable.

But it is nonsense to suggest no other potential sponsors exist.

It is nonsense to suggest that if the GAA end the sponsorship that Allianz will immediately end the insurance.

It is also nonsense to suggest that there are no other insurance options out there.

You are buying Jarlaths bullshit.

I have said the GAA should be clearer on what the consequences of removing the sponsorship and or insurance would be. And whilst respecting your right to an opinion, on balance I would be more inclined to believe the GAA who have more facts than you.

Your not asking why the GAA haven't been clearer given the flack they're getting? If you had tried different options would you not want to demonstrate this? Show everything to show how your hands are tied?
It's a fairly standard business assumption to assume there will be other sponsors and other insurance companies. If that's not the case, explain it. Show you've done everything possible to try and detangle Allianz from the GAA.

The GAA made a decision and are working back. No debate. No vote. A totally compromised ethics committee.

It's demeaning to see the mental gymnastics to fall in line with Croke Park on this.

[Baile Brigín 2]

There will be consequences. But I don't see them as unmanageable.

But it is nonsense to suggest no other potential sponsors exist.

It is nonsense to suggest that if the GAA end the sponsorship that Allianz will immediately end the insurance.

It is also nonsense to suggest that there are no other insurance options out there.

You are buying Jarlaths bullshit.

There's no doubt that there would be other sponsors available.
We don't know if the GAA ended the sponsorship that Allianz will immediately end the insurance and if there were plentiful options on the insurance front I'd take a punt on it.
It is NOT nonsense to say that there are no other insurance options out there. As I've said a Central Council delegate informed a meeting I was at that they were the only company willing to offer terms at the last renewal. I'll take his word on that over yours as he would be a lot more informed than you.
You're implying that Jarlath is LYING on this and there was talk earlier by other posters about brown envelopes.  Even if this was tongue in cheek I don't think we should be questioning his integrity or that of any other volunteer at the top of our organisation.  Question their judgement all you like but I think accusations of poor integrity or lying are uncalled for.

But the insurance is linked to the sponsorship- they didn't go shopping around.

The people in question are not volunteering their time,they are highly paid. But even if they were, they would still be accountable.

And I am not implying anything. That report was riddled with inaccurate statements.

[RedHand88]

I wasn't suggesting that all 178 insurance companies operating in Ireland are direct options.

But equally it is literally mental to suggest that if the GAA pull the sponsorship, Allianz will pull the insurance and the GAA will have to cease operations, which was the argument I was responding to.

It certainly read like you were suggesting 178 alternatives existed.
Also, do you know what the effect of Allianz pulling insurance would be on the GAA? My post was speculative as I admit to having no knowledge of the consequences. Whereas you paint the picture that everything will be perfectly OK and the GAA could get out of the sponsorship very easily, an argument I find dishonest.
It certainly read like you were suggesting 178 alternatives existed.
Also, do you know what the effect of Allianz pulling insurance would be on the GAA? My post was speculative as I admit to having no knowledge of the consequences. Whereas you paint the picture that everything will be perfectly OK and the GAA could get out of the sponsorship and insurance very easily, an argument I find dishonest.
If the GAA is disassociating itself from the sponsor, it would surely have to stop doing business with them i.e. refuse or revoke the insurance with them. The sponsor would not be pulling the insurance the GAA would be. Or perhaps it is acceptable to pay for services from genocide enablers but refuse to take their money for sponsorship.

There will be consequences. But I don't see them as unmanageable.

But it is nonsense to suggest no other potential sponsors exist.

It is nonsense to suggest that if the GAA end the sponsorship that Allianz will immediately end the insurance.

It is also nonsense to suggest that there are no other insurance options out there.

You are buying Jarlaths bullshit.

I have said the GAA should be clearer on what the consequences of removing the sponsorship and or insurance would be. And whilst respecting your right to an opinion, on balance I would be more inclined to believe the GAA who have more facts than you.

The same GAA who claimed Allianz hadn't invested in war bonds?

Am I correct in saying Allianz Ireland have nothing to do with any of this? Is it a cousin company in America that bought Israeli government bonds? Seems to be a big outfit overall, 1300 different subsidiaries and companies.

Willing to be corrected.

[GTP]

The GAA said Allianz in Ireland who sponsor the GAA "has no involvement with the Israeli Defence Forces or corporate entities involved in the war in Gaza."
I may be wrong but I do not believe this is in dispute.
The ethics report also states:
"The Special Rapporteur on the Occupied Palestine Territories has identified Allianz and
hundreds of other corporate entities as supporting what she refers to as "the
economy of genocide" "
This is hardly hiding the accussation from public view nor is it claiming Allianz hadn't invested in war bonds.
I have questioned why the GAA isn't providing more information.Though I do not think that even with full disclosure that their explanation would be accepted.

[trueblue1234]

Don't think anyone claimed Allianz Ireland had invested in War bonds. It was always known the investment was by their subsidiary PIMCO, Who were the largest investor in these bonds at one point.
For me the lack of disclosure by the GAA raises serious questions that aren't going to go away.
I really hope there is work going on in the background on this. I think most GAA members  will accept a financial hit on this. If this decision was purely financial, then I don't think the top table has read the room correctly.

[RedHand88]

If there are 1300 subsidiaries/companies in 70 countries under the Allianz holding group, is it realistic to expect them all to be squeaky clean?
If they are all separate legal entities not linked to Allianz Ireland, should we be throwing away the sponsorship over the actions of a cousin company?

I understand there are issues with how this wasn't raised at Congress etc when it possibly should have been under the rules of raising a motion, which is a separate issue.

[Truthsayer]

There will be consequences. But I don't see them as unmanageable.

But it is nonsense to suggest no other potential sponsors exist.

It is nonsense to suggest that if the GAA end the sponsorship that Allianz will immediately end the insurance.

It is also nonsense to suggest that there are no other insurance options out there.

You are buying Jarlaths bullshit.

There's no doubt that there would be other sponsors available.
We don't know if the GAA ended the sponsorship that Allianz will immediately end the insurance and if there were plentiful options on the insurance front I'd take a punt on it.
It is NOT nonsense to say that there are no other insurance options out there. As I've said a Central Council delegate informed a meeting I was at that they were the only company willing to offer terms at the last renewal. I'll take his word on that over yours as he would be a lot more informed than you.
You're implying that Jarlath is LYING on this and there was talk earlier by other posters about brown envelopes.  Even if this was tongue in cheek I don't think we should be questioning his integrity or that of any other volunteer at the top of our organisation.  Question their judgement all you like but I think accusations of poor integrity or lying are uncalled for.

I would absolutely question their integrity... not allowing the subject to be discussed at Congress?
Defending an association with Allianz when all evidence points to their help fund a genocide... named by the UN special rapporteur on Human Rights.. Francesca Albanese.
People who were protesting the genocide didn't go looking for the Allianz link.. it was presented to them.

[trueblue1234]

If there are 1300 subsidiaries/companies in 70 countries under the Allianz holding group, is it realistic to expect them all to be squeaky clean?
If they are all separate legal entities not linked to Allianz Ireland, should we be throwing away the sponsorship over the actions of a cousin company?

I understand there are issues with how this wasn't raised at Congress etc when it possibly should have been under the rules of raising a motion, which is a separate issue.

In my view yes. They invested over 1 Billion in these bonds. Thats not a small transaction. It's a huge corporate decision to invest directly in Israel's war efforts. You can't remove the parent company from that imo.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

The GAA has banned sponsorship from gambling firms but not from members gambling. The have restricted alcohol sponsorship but not club bars or players drinking etc. doing something is better than nothing it seems in some cases!

IMO the sponsorship should end ASAP and what needs to be explored to make that happen should be done.

the insurance side might be harder if options are limited but it should be explored fully.

[Baile Brigín 2]

The GAA said Allianz in Ireland who sponsor the GAA "has no involvement with the Israeli Defence Forces or corporate entities involved in the war in Gaza."
I may be wrong but I do not believe this is in dispute.
The ethics report also states:
"The Special Rapporteur on the Occupied Palestine Territories has identified Allianz and
hundreds of other corporate entities as supporting what she refers to as "the
economy of genocide" "
This is hardly hiding the accussation from public view nor is it claiming Allianz hadn't invested in war bonds.
I have questioned why the GAA isn't providing more information.Though I do not think that even with full disclosure that their explanation would be accepted.

No involvement apart from being part of the same f**king company.

[Baile Brigín 2]

If there are 1300 subsidiaries/companies in 70 countries under the Allianz holding group, is it realistic to expect them all to be squeaky clean?
If they are all separate legal entities not linked to Allianz Ireland, should we be throwing away the sponsorship over the actions of a cousin company?

I understand there are issues with how this wasn't raised at Congress etc when it possibly should have been under the rules of raising a motion, which is a separate issue.

Not linked? Be serious.

[Baile Brigín 2]

There will be consequences. But I don't see them as unmanageable.

But it is nonsense to suggest no other potential sponsors exist.

It is nonsense to suggest that if the GAA end the sponsorship that Allianz will immediately end the insurance.

It is also nonsense to suggest that there are no other insurance options out there.

You are buying Jarlaths bullshit.

There's no doubt that there would be other sponsors available.
We don't know if the GAA ended the sponsorship that Allianz will immediately end the insurance and if there were plentiful options on the insurance front I'd take a punt on it.
It is NOT nonsense to say that there are no other insurance options out there. As I've said a Central Council delegate informed a meeting I was at that they were the only company willing to offer terms at the last renewal. I'll take his word on that over yours as he would be a lot more informed than you.
You're implying that Jarlath is LYING on this and there was talk earlier by other posters about brown envelopes.  Even if this was tongue in cheek I don't think we should be questioning his integrity or that of any other volunteer at the top of our organisation.  Question their judgement all you like but I think accusations of poor integrity or lying are uncalled for.

I would absolutely question their integrity... not allowing the subject to be discussed at Congress?
Defending an association with Allianz when all evidence points to their help fund a genocide... named by the UN special rapporteur on Human Rights.. Francesca Albanese.
People who were protesting the genocide didn't go looking for the Allianz link.. it was presented to them.

Imagine being so dumb to believe, or at least pretend to, that the Irish arm of a German company is not in any way connected to the American arm of that company.

It is terrifying to see how willing people are to buy any old shite rather than criticise Croke Park.

[Truthsayer]

There will be consequences. But I don't see them as unmanageable.

But it is nonsense to suggest no other potential sponsors exist.

It is nonsense to suggest that if the GAA end the sponsorship that Allianz will immediately end the insurance.

It is also nonsense to suggest that there are no other insurance options out there.

You are buying Jarlaths bullshit.

There's no doubt that there would be other sponsors available.
We don't know if the GAA ended the sponsorship that Allianz will immediately end the insurance and if there were plentiful options on the insurance front I'd take a punt on it.
It is NOT nonsense to say that there are no other insurance options out there. As I've said a Central Council delegate informed a meeting I was at that they were the only company willing to offer terms at the last renewal. I'll take his word on that over yours as he would be a lot more informed than you.
You're implying that Jarlath is LYING on this and there was talk earlier by other posters about brown envelopes.  Even if this was tongue in cheek I don't think we should be questioning his integrity or that of any other volunteer at the top of our organisation.  Question their judgement all you like but I think accusations of poor integrity or lying are uncalled for.

I would absolutely question their integrity... not allowing the subject to be discussed at Congress?
Defending an association with Allianz when all evidence points to their help fund a genocide... named by the UN special rapporteur on Human Rights.. Francesca Albanese.
People who were protesting the genocide didn't go looking for the Allianz link.. it was presented to them.

Imagine being so dumb to believe, or at least pretend to, that the Irish arm of a German company is not in any way connected to the American arm of that company.

It is terrifying to see how willing people are to buy any old shite rather than criticise Croke Park.

Is the same way people believed the Catholic Church was beyond corruption and criticism... until there was no denying it. Sacred cows.

[GTP]

The GAA said Allianz in Ireland who sponsor the GAA "has no involvement with the Israeli Defence Forces or corporate entities involved in the war in Gaza."
I may be wrong but I do not believe this is in dispute.
The ethics report also states:
"The Special Rapporteur on the Occupied Palestine Territories has identified Allianz and
hundreds of other corporate entities as supporting what she refers to as "the
economy of genocide" "
This is hardly hiding the accussation from public view nor is it claiming Allianz hadn't invested in war bonds.
I have questioned why the GAA isn't providing more information.Though I do not think that even with full disclosure that their explanation would be accepted.

No involvement apart from being part of the same f**king company.

This does not provide any evidence to justify your previous post
"The same GAA who claimed Allianz hadn't invested in war bonds?"
TS you found JB invoking the Glenane Gang to be horrific. Is comparing the actions of the GAA hierarchy in this situation, to the church silencing and covering up abuse not very similar.