Enhanced Rules

[Armagh18]

What specifically did people find boring about last years final?

Because if its prolonged periods of possession and lateral passing around the arc don't we still have that?

Kerry didn't win

You're correct on the  lateral passing .  There was more of it  and more  handpasses this year than last. Move all the chess  pieces relentlessly , get the shooter in position, and  boom, a 2 pointer. 

Some of Clifford's 2  pointers  were good kicks ,  but is that  the best we can expect from  potentially the greatest player  ever to play the game? Some people are easily pleased.

Did you not see the goals he scored this year? And points from play... previously he caught the ball and put his arm in the air to call for a mark. Now he plays a bit...

So get rid of the mark which was a shite rule in the first place...

[Milltown Row2]

What specifically did people find boring about last years final?

Because if its prolonged periods of possession and lateral passing around the arc don't we still have that?

Kerry didn't win

You're correct on the  lateral passing .  There was more of it  and more  handpasses this year than last. Move all the chess  pieces relentlessly , get the shooter in position, and  boom, a 2 pointer. 

Some of Clifford's 2  pointers  were good kicks ,  but is that  the best we can expect from  potentially the greatest player  ever to play the game? Some people are easily pleased.

Did you not see the goals he scored this year? And points from play... previously he caught the ball and put his arm in the air to call for a mark. Now he plays a bit...

Most were only  against Cavan

2 minutes lateral passing , Clifford  trots around,  runs into position, has  the ball for a split second, 2 pointer.  He did that  numerous times, particularly  in the last 3 games.

He did get some really good other scores but that tactic  is basically  the game now , as it's the most profitable way  of playing. Galway did similar  with Walsh

 Is that really the best  way to show off the  best talents in the game? In my opinion , absolutely not. The two pointer  is an absolute abomination

So his 8-62 were mainly against Cavan and having the ability to score from 40 plus meters is rubbish?

Not sure what you are pushing here, but go on

[dec]

Joe Brolly on 2 pointers

https://archive.is/iSkZq

On Friday night in the Tyrone senior league, Dungannon beat Trillick 0-25 to 0-17. Trillick lost heavily, despite kicking the ball over the bar more times than Dungannon and playing the better football.
They lost because Dungannon have a two-point specialist, Paul Donaghy, who scored nine two-pointers. Dungannon's other scorers on the night managed 0-1 apiece. All of Trillick's scores, like Donegal's in the All-Ireland final, were one-pointers. Trillick put the ball over the bar 17 times. Dungannon put the ball over the bar just 16 times, yet beat Trillick by eight points, a humiliation in a game where Trillick were the better team.
Two-pointers are skewing the fairness of the contest. Knockmore played Balla in the first round of the Mayo senior championship and with a few minutes to go to half-time had built a five-point lead against a strong wind and a strong opposition. Then, Balla were awarded two frees in succession outside the 40-metre arc and floated them over in the gale. When the ref blew the half-time whistle there was only a point in it and it felt weird.
If a team is fortunate enough to have a two-point specialist, they now have an enormous advantage. A free 41 metres out is almost as good as a goal and far less bother. A free 41 metres out with a gale at your back is a cinch. If the referee moves the ball forward 50 metres for the ball not being handed back promptly or a remark by a player, then a two-point specialist can bring it back out to the 40-metre line and exact a scarcely fair punishment.
The two-point specialist in Mayo is Evan Regan, or Tony Yeboah as I call him, since his left foot reminds me of Yeboah's thunderous comic book volleys when he played for Leeds. In the Stephenites first-round game against Ballyhaunis, he scored five two-pointers, four in the first half with the wind, which killed the game.
For Evan, anywhere from 60 metres in is a straightforward putt. Outside of the boot, instep, it matters not. In an era when anything that might remotely be physical contact is a free, he is an extraordinary weapon, again skewing the natural balance of the contest.
I think back to when I was playing. Anthony Tohill, 6'5", built like Captain America, could sweep frees over the bar from 60 metres at his cush. If there had been two-pointers then, how many more games would we have won? How many championships? Or Bryan Sheehan, the Cahirsiveen phenomenon whose long frees were a fairground attraction.
Joe Brolly: Bad news for the rest is that Kerry look like they're just getting started
It is clear from this first season of the new rules that it is imperative to find and develop two-point specialists, like the kickers in American football. Teams at all levels that have such a kicker will have a huge advantage. An advantage that they do not have to earn in the traditional way — by playing better football than the opposition.
A two-point specialist, regardless of his general ability, is now absolutely worth it. It no longer matters if you are being outplayed. And if you have a gale-force wind blowing, then a two-point specialist can win the game in a single half.
Jim Gavin's rationale behind the two-point score was that it would draw defences out and force them to defend the 40-metre arc. I agree with this, but that rationale only extends to scores from play and 40 metres is too close for specialists. I would therefore keep the two-pointer from play but move it back five metres creating a 45-metre arc.
However, two-point frees are unjustifiable. Worse again is the option to move the free back out to the 40-metre arc when the referee has advanced the ball 50 metres. Again, this is a thoroughly unworked-for advantage. The normal principles of any sporting contest are fairness, that the scoring system broadly reflects the balance of the play, and that the scores are created/deserved. This does not apply to two-point frees, where a specialist kicker can and often does win the game on those alone.
In the All-Ireland final this year, Kerry had two two-point specialists. Donegal had none. In spite of the fact that Donegal kicked the ball over the bar the same number of times as Kerry, like Trillick on Friday night, they lost heavily. What would ordinarily have been a titanic contest was instead a terrible anti-climax because of those two-point specialists. Kerry advanced behind that spearhead, growing in confidence after every two-point dagger.
Under the traditional scoring system, the half-time score would have been 0-13 to 0-10. Instead it was 0-17 to 0-10. Crucially, however, Donegal were psychologically shattered by the two-pointers. Kerry scored six two-pointers. Donegal had none. Without those two-pointers the final score would have been 1-20 to 0-19, and do not forget that the Kerry goal came at the very end when Donegal had abandoned all hope.
The new rules have revived the corpse of Gaelic football. But when the scoring system does not broadly reflect the balance of play, when instead of being a fair contest it becomes a skills test for a small number of two-point specialists, what exactly is the point?

[Rossfan]

Imagine having the cheek to play skilled players.....
What next?
Team A had a very good goalkeeper who made a load of saves....

[lenny]

Joe Brolly on 2 pointers

https://archive.is/iSkZq

On Friday night in the Tyrone senior league, Dungannon beat Trillick 0-25 to 0-17. Trillick lost heavily, despite kicking the ball over the bar more times than Dungannon and playing the better football.
They lost because Dungannon have a two-point specialist, Paul Donaghy, who scored nine two-pointers. Dungannon's other scorers on the night managed 0-1 apiece. All of Trillick's scores, like Donegal's in the All-Ireland final, were one-pointers. Trillick put the ball over the bar 17 times. Dungannon put the ball over the bar just 16 times, yet beat Trillick by eight points, a humiliation in a game where Trillick were the better team.
Two-pointers are skewing the fairness of the contest. Knockmore played Balla in the first round of the Mayo senior championship and with a few minutes to go to half-time had built a five-point lead against a strong wind and a strong opposition. Then, Balla were awarded two frees in succession outside the 40-metre arc and floated them over in the gale. When the ref blew the half-time whistle there was only a point in it and it felt weird.
If a team is fortunate enough to have a two-point specialist, they now have an enormous advantage. A free 41 metres out is almost as good as a goal and far less bother. A free 41 metres out with a gale at your back is a cinch. If the referee moves the ball forward 50 metres for the ball not being handed back promptly or a remark by a player, then a two-point specialist can bring it back out to the 40-metre line and exact a scarcely fair punishment.
The two-point specialist in Mayo is Evan Regan, or Tony Yeboah as I call him, since his left foot reminds me of Yeboah's thunderous comic book volleys when he played for Leeds. In the Stephenites first-round game against Ballyhaunis, he scored five two-pointers, four in the first half with the wind, which killed the game.
For Evan, anywhere from 60 metres in is a straightforward putt. Outside of the boot, instep, it matters not. In an era when anything that might remotely be physical contact is a free, he is an extraordinary weapon, again skewing the natural balance of the contest.
I think back to when I was playing. Anthony Tohill, 6'5", built like Captain America, could sweep frees over the bar from 60 metres at his cush. If there had been two-pointers then, how many more games would we have won? How many championships? Or Bryan Sheehan, the Cahirsiveen phenomenon whose long frees were a fairground attraction.
Joe Brolly: Bad news for the rest is that Kerry look like they're just getting started
It is clear from this first season of the new rules that it is imperative to find and develop two-point specialists, like the kickers in American football. Teams at all levels that have such a kicker will have a huge advantage. An advantage that they do not have to earn in the traditional way — by playing better football than the opposition.
A two-point specialist, regardless of his general ability, is now absolutely worth it. It no longer matters if you are being outplayed. And if you have a gale-force wind blowing, then a two-point specialist can win the game in a single half.
Jim Gavin's rationale behind the two-point score was that it would draw defences out and force them to defend the 40-metre arc. I agree with this, but that rationale only extends to scores from play and 40 metres is too close for specialists. I would therefore keep the two-pointer from play but move it back five metres creating a 45-metre arc.
However, two-point frees are unjustifiable. Worse again is the option to move the free back out to the 40-metre arc when the referee has advanced the ball 50 metres. Again, this is a thoroughly unworked-for advantage. The normal principles of any sporting contest are fairness, that the scoring system broadly reflects the balance of the play, and that the scores are created/deserved. This does not apply to two-point frees, where a specialist kicker can and often does win the game on those alone.
In the All-Ireland final this year, Kerry had two two-point specialists. Donegal had none. In spite of the fact that Donegal kicked the ball over the bar the same number of times as Kerry, like Trillick on Friday night, they lost heavily. What would ordinarily have been a titanic contest was instead a terrible anti-climax because of those two-point specialists. Kerry advanced behind that spearhead, growing in confidence after every two-point dagger.
Under the traditional scoring system, the half-time score would have been 0-13 to 0-10. Instead it was 0-17 to 0-10. Crucially, however, Donegal were psychologically shattered by the two-pointers. Kerry scored six two-pointers. Donegal had none. Without those two-pointers the final score would have been 1-20 to 0-19, and do not forget that the Kerry goal came at the very end when Donegal had abandoned all hope.
The new rules have revived the corpse of Gaelic football. But when the scoring system does not broadly reflect the balance of play, when instead of being a fair contest it becomes a skills test for a small number of two-point specialists, what exactly is the point?

Very strange comments from brolly. The 2 pointers were a big difference in the AI final but they were down to tactics more than individual skills. Donegal have several players well capable of kicking 2 pointers and had done in previous matches but had obviously decided they could get their scores more efficiently closer in. It seemed that Jim mcg had decided that shooting from outside the arc was too risky because there were a number of times donegal could've gone for it. As for Trillick I'd say they have a few players like lee brennan who could easily kick 2 pointers. It's down to management tactics whether or not they go for them but it can also be down to the defensive team not allowing the opportunities. I would say when trillick play dungannon in the championship paul donaghy will struggle to get close to tht number of 2 pointers. The rules are in their infancy so personally I'd like to see them stay for a couple of seasons at least before making too many more changes.

[Smokin Joe]

Joe Brolly on 2 pointers


In the All-Ireland final this year, Kerry had two two-point specialists. Donegal had none.

What a load of rubbish. There wasn't a better 2 point kicker in the league that Daire O'Baoill. Donegal had a specialist that could kick 2 points, but Jim dropped him.
And I suppose that Ciaran Thompson couldn't kick a 2 pointer either?

[AustinPowers]

"a skills test for a small number of two-point specialists"

Brolly  has a point (for once).

That's essentially what  the game has become.

It's like  American football,  get to a position where  the likes of that Jude McAtamney fella  puts down his Game Boy, comes on   and kicks  a free.  Do that a few times  each game , and your  team  likely wins. You could have great throwers or runners. But nah, let's just  bring Jude on.

[Milltown Row2]

It's great when it works for you and shite when it doesn't

[thewobbler]

"a skills test for a small number of two-point specialists"

Brolly  has a point (for once).

That's essentially what  the game has become.

It's like  American football,  get to a position where  the likes of that Jude McAtamney fella  puts down his Game Boy, comes on   and kicks  a free.  Do that a few times  each game , and your  team  likely wins. You could have great throwers or runners. But nah, let's just  bring Jude on.

When the new rules were being rolled out, the one I was most dubious about was the 2 pointer, for the simple reason that I didn't like idea that someone who has a naturally longer leg could enjoy such an advantage over those that do not.

But it's gone an awful lot better than expected. While it is easier to open up a lead,  I really like the fact that an 8 point advantage with 10 mins to go requires more thought than "protect the goal at all costs".

And you know what? People who could run more quickly, jump higher always had an advantage over those that couldn't. People with better balance and dexterity have always had an advantage over others. People on the psychotic edge of bravery have always had an advantage over others. So why would I get worried about a lad who kicks it further, enjoying an advantage?

[Rossfan]

Yep. Imagine giving out about a player who can kick the ball better than others in a game called FOOTball!!😲

[Rossfan]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2025/0831/1530096-less-confrontation-more-action-rules-work-for-clubs/

[thebigfullforward]

Went to a game yesterday and there was a 3 uo breach. One team only had 2 forwards up, linesman was notified and looked right at it and it took him a good 15/20 seconds to call it. Why did it take so long to notify the ref? There wasn't another player within 15 metres of the halfway line so it's not like he was giving them a chance to get back. Surely call it straight away once you've seen it?

[Milltown Row2]

Went to a game yesterday and there was a 3 uo breach. One team only had 2 forwards up, linesman was notified and looked right at it and it took him a good 15/20 seconds to call it. Why did it take so long to notify the ref? There wasn't another player within 15 metres of the halfway line so it's not like he was giving them a chance to get back. Surely call it straight away once you've seen it?

Come and try it.. there's usually new ref's training every January.

[mrdeeds]

Why is a sideline considered a free if a 45 is not?

[thebigfullforward]

Went to a game yesterday and there was a 3 uo breach. One team only had 2 forwards up, linesman was notified and looked right at it and it took him a good 15/20 seconds to call it. Why did it take so long to notify the ref? There wasn't another player within 15 metres of the halfway line so it's not like he was giving them a chance to get back. Surely call it straight away once you've seen it?

Come and try it.. there's usually new ref's training every January.

It's a genuine question mate. If no-one can answer it's grand. I'd just like to know the reason. No need to be snarky about it