GPA exceptionalism

[Milltown Row2]

MR2.

I don't know if I'm any more than a single voice of objection to continual progress, but I do expect I've thought about this more than most.

I personally have:

No interest in it being the best sport in the world.

No interest in coaches going into schools.

No interest in creating pathways for anyone to becoming better at coaching.

No issue with the sport not being televised to death.

——

Am I just being controversial? Perhaps.

But deep down I just don't understand this yearning for constant growth. The GAA is a parish based organisation for the people of Ireland. I do not understand the need to be bigger than that.
 

I thought I was the contrary cnut on the board, but you have taken my title lol

No, I get what you are saying and the points I made are general things we pick up on from chatting with our clubmates, they are varied like yours. But Growth is inevitable as it has done since its beginning and that genie is not going back into the bottle.

It is a past time sport and it should be viewed like that too

[The Trap]

I agree again the wobbler. Milltown you are contradicting yourself a bit but feel your heart is in the right place.
Does everything getting bigger and costing more make it better? The GAA is almost totally an Irish based sport so who are we competing against? What makes it so special is the community based aspect which should be cherished in this modern world.

A wee comparison. 30 years ago I played GAA and soccer.

For GAA you trained twice a week and played on a Sunday.

For soccer you trained twice a week and played on a Saturday.

Soccer has stayed the same almost, nothing too fancy just play your game and go for a few beers if you fancy it. A manager to pick the team, no frills attached really. Facilities basic enough but get to play a competitive game.

Gaelic is now train on the pitch and gym 5 times a week at club level, have loads of backroom people, sponsors etc.

And all for what?

A game that has now had to change the rules because people aren't entertained.

Question for people

What does the GAA mean to you? Think back to your youth and see the difference.

[DuffleKing]

Because it is an intrinsic part of our culture and itentity. The desire to compete and represent your place is central to many GAA people's way of life and the club offers you a community of like minded people and a place to pour your enegery into those passions.

[tiempo]

Interesting video from back in the day

McGeeney

Recent Meyler quote

"I was told to retire, to just pack it in, that my knee was bucked. But it's my body, my call. I don't think anyone will ever understand how much I threw at it last year to try and get back - to the detriment of everything outside of football'

Pulling the 2 soundbites together, I'm not sure grassroots are asking for people to pursue a hobby to the detriment of everything else - but thats what routinely happens

The players want to be semi-pro/pro, its a common justification for lads accepting AFL contracts, the lifestyle, thats the top 0.000001%

In terms of Meyler, who you would want to see back playing, a player given medical advice to stop playing then continues to play, insurance-wise thats a nightmare, long term medical implications and quality of life thats a nightmare, its the opposite of player welfare the GPA bang on about - again where does management come in, does Mal O'Rourke just burn through Meyler til he crocked, is that what winning Sam is all about, any means necessary, would he not consider calling time on the player even if the player doesn't want to, do the managers need training/directive on that, and on welfare in general?

I think the funding gravy train has to be curtailed for players and managers, its easier for team managers who are driving the gravy train, they aren't breaking their hole in a gym or on a pitch, plus they're often remunerated well beyond a good liveable salary, thats where much of the schism lies

[Eamonnca1]

It's always been a puzzle to me as to why any amateur sportsperson/hobbyist who chooses to dedicate their life to their pursuits, would expect any financial reward for doing so.

Probably a perception that they deserve some sort of monetary reward for all the effort they put in. Not something you'll see from participants in other sports like cycling or athletics who put in just as much time and effort. The difference is they aren't big crowd-pullers like intercounty GAA matches are. So the sight of the big crowds coming out to see them probably makes them feel like they should be paid, especially when there are professional soccer matches drawing smaller crowds.

I mean do we really need to put "it's amateur" in shiny neon lights around our facilities? Or will those unwilling to separate hobby world from real world just find another message to vainly ignore.

My theory is that as they get older and more mature, and more involved in the administration and coaching of the game, they might come to appreciate the amateur ethos better. But there's always a new cohort of angry young men coming through who have yet to reach that level, so the GPA will always have its base from which to recruit.

That said, I also would like to see some genuine leadership from the GAA regarding trimming their employment levels, and altering the growth goals of the association.

Couldn't see it. More growth means more work, meaning limited volunteer capacity, meaning more full-time roles filling the gap.

Because until this happens, then the GPA - much as it frustrates me - kind of have a point.

Why do we need so many full time and part time coaches in the GAA?

Only so many volunteers available with the time to commit to it.

Why do we need to continually "grow the game"?

I'm surprised to see this question being asked. If you don't grow the game, other sports will grow around you and you'll stagnate.

Why do we need super 12s?

Fun games in a structured environment that help young players learn the skills. A hell of an improvement over youth training in the 1980s when you ran a few laps of the field and then threw in the ball to play a match, without actually teaching anyone how to play it.

Why do we shovel so many games into Croke Park?

I'm with you there. It's not financially viable to play so many lower-grade competitions in Croke Park, and it makes for a dead atmosphere when the place is mostly empty. But apparently the "honour" of playing on the hallowed turf means that just about all All-Irelands have to be played there no matter how low the grade. By all means play the All-Ireland final in Dublin, but put it in a smaller arena that's more appropriate for the crowd size.

Why do we need 4 sets of paid provincial officers?

Are provincial council officers paid?

Why do we need to benchmark against soccer and rugby, instead of ploughing our own furrow in terms of pricing and marketing?

Because we're competing against soccer and rugby whether we like it or not. One thing the GAA is good at the other sports are not is forming local community identities, but other sports are good at things like marketing. There's no harm in learning from them.

And so on and so on. All nearly summarised as "why have we allowed capitalist concepts to steer a community association?"

Depends which "capitalist concepts" you're talking about. If you mean taking a more professional approach to marketing and games promotion, that can only be good. The flow of money has a big effect on everything whether we like it or not. There's no point in pretending otherwise. There are limits to what volunteers are willing and able to do, and money is going to flow into the gaps.

The problem inherent in the amateur ethos of Gaelic Games is that over the last 40 years, partly through over commitment to a hobby, and partly due to hustle and bustle, so many people have both inadvertently and knowingly turned voluntary roles of a few hours a week, into full time roles. Of courses players are going to want some of this action. It's only logical.

Yup.

So let's start a rollback.

King Canute demonstrated how hard that is to do.

[Rossfan]

The GAA was boasting about how much money they made last year.

[tiempo]

If the GPA are only in it for the money they should just come out and say it

Ironically the GAAs amateur ethos is enshrined in the GPA constitution, the GPA shouldn't even be asking their members for a view on amateur status

If Tom and others want a professional GAA competition they should break away and get it done

[Kidder81]

The GAA was boasting about how much money they made last year.

Who do you think they do with it ? Buy yachts ?

[marty34]

Interesting video from back in the day

McGeeney

Recent Meyler quote

"I was told to retire, to just pack it in, that my knee was bucked. But it's my body, my call. I don't think anyone will ever understand how much I threw at it last year to try and get back - to the detriment of everything outside of football'

Pulling the 2 soundbites together, I'm not sure grassroots are asking for people to pursue a hobby to the detriment of everything else - but thats what routinely happens

The players want to be semi-pro/pro, its a common justification for lads accepting AFL contracts, the lifestyle, thats the top 0.000001%

In terms of Meyler, who you would want to see back playing, a player given medical advice to stop playing then continues to play, insurance-wise thats a nightmare, long term medical implications and quality of life thats a nightmare, its the opposite of player welfare the GPA bang on about - again where does management come in, does Mal O'Rourke just burn through Meyler til he crocked, is that what winning Sam is all about, any means necessary, would he not consider calling time on the player even if the player doesn't want to, do the managers need training/directive on that, and on welfare in general?

I think the funding gravy train has to be curtailed for players and managers, its easier for team managers who are driving the gravy train, they aren't breaking their hole in a gym or on a pitch, plus they're often remunerated well beyond a good liveable salary, thats where much of the schism lies

I wonder will there come a time say, in 25 years, that a players sues a county board of the GAA for injuries while playing and suffering with hip replacements and them in there 50's and 6o's.

Seems mad but could happen.

[Rossfan]

The GAA was boasting about how much money they made last year.

Who do you think they do with it ? Buy yachts ?

I can see Prenty sailing around Clew Bay on a yacht right enough😁.

[tiempo]

I wonder will there come a time say, in 25 years, that a players sues a county board of the GAA for injuries while playing and suffering with hip replacements and them in there 50's and 6o's.

Seems mad but could happen.

The GPA once fought the cancellation of the O'Byrne Cup as it could be detrimental to player welfare, then lobbied for the 2025 pre season competitons to be cancelled on welfare concerns, so yes, not outlandish to think of them pushing for some sort of class action

Should rugby set the ball rolling, the GPA won't be long following suit, where there's blame there's a claim

[marty34]

I wonder will there come a time say, in 25 years, that a players sues a county board of the GAA for injuries while playing and suffering with hip replacements and them in there 50's and 6o's.

Seems mad but could happen.

The GPA once fought the cancellation of the O'Byrne Cup as it could be detrimental to player welfare, then lobbied for the 2025 pre season competitons to be cancelled on welfare concerns, so yes, not outlandish to think of them pushing for some sort of class action

Should rugby set the ball rolling, the GPA won't be long following suit, where there's blame there's a claim

It's in soccer already with heading the ball.

[thewobbler]

 I'd accept it's not impossible, given that judges seem quite happy to open up litigious angles wherever they look.

But if someone's personal participation in an experience/opportunity is wholly discretional, wholly optional, non transactional and non contractual, then how could they later find the grounds for a lawsuit?

I'll put it like this. Should a GAA player win a claim against the association (rather than a civil claim against another competitor), well that's team sport finished in Ireland. Not GAA, but all team sport.

I don't think that kind of thing gets to court. It's not constitutional, but nor is it in public / government interest.

[twohands!!!]

I'd accept it's not impossible, given that judges seem quite happy to open up litigious angles wherever they look.

But if someone's personal participation in an experience/opportunity is wholly discretional, wholly optional, non transactional and non contractual, then how could they later find the grounds for a lawsuit?

I'll put it like this. Should a GAA player win a claim against the association (rather than a civil claim against another competitor), well that's team sport finished in Ireland. Not GAA, but all team sport.

I don't think that kind of thing gets to court. It's not constitutional, but nor is it in public / government interest.

Yeah I can't see it being an issue for the GAA - a key difference for rugby and soccer is the professionalism issue - there's a lot more protection if it's a case of working in conditions that are exteremely likely to cause long-term injury as opposed to an activity where an individual is just voluntarily taking part.

Obviously the GAA still needs to do what it can in terms of minimsing injuries and dealing with them properly when they occur i.e - blood and concussion subs but I really can't see the GAA being affected the way professional rugby is likely to be at some point- where basically if you play the sport professionally there is an extremely high likelihood that you are going to end up just physically destroyed.

[Rossfan]

Solicitors and judges might see it differently.