General Election 2024

[imtommygunn]

You mean by them?

[AustinPowers]

What  Is the reason for FF/FG's hatred of SF? It just seems strange, given FF and FG  are opposing parties historically , but they obviously  hate SF  a lot more

I have my own suspicions , but just interested in  others thoughts on it


Btw, what was the  reason for the position of each  candidate in the line up last night? Is this usually the order they  stand? Seemed to me it was deliberate , so that MM/SH could  give it to Mary Lou  from both sides (I'm not a  SF voter btw)

There's a lot of middle aged people who remember SF's support for the provos and remember the Provos being involved in organized armed robberies, violence against Gardai and indiscriminate killings of innocent people. I know that is scoffed at by many in here, but it's a fact that some people still would not vote SF because it's still in the memory banks of voters, but getting less important every election.

Maybe because FF/FG ensure it's  still in  memory banks by continually rabbiting on about it ?

I know what you mean , most people see through  it. But this  old IRA are good , troubles era IRA are bad rhetoric is  pathetic. How grown men can  sit there and  espouse this crap, suggests they'll do anything to  keep their cushy numbers . Anyway, I digress......

More important for FF and FG is economic policy. SF are far to the left of FG and FF, they espoused Marxist policies,  anti EU policies and anti enterprise policies. But SF have definitely moved in a bit from their far left positions, so I think they are no longer unpalatable to FF. I think MM would reluctantly accept a coalition on a 'will of the people' basis, if that's the way the electorate voted. But only if FF are the biggest party. Otherwise if FF went into coalition with SF I think he would stand down as leader.

When you consider  some of the  EU's  antics, I can understand why.

FG are still far away from SF, so it would be a bit of a nonsense for FG to want to go into a coalition with SF, and vice versa of course.

[naka]

For all the wealth Ireland has, the place is a complete mess - housing, health and education etc. Never mind immigration. I watched Katie Hannon's Up Front programme last night and you'd swear that FFG were new to the whole experience in government. It was just a mess.

'The place is a complete mess' is a very confusing statement for me.

I think it's a great place to live and land of great opportunity. Now, it's not perfect, by a long way. A&E is horrendous and there are long waiting lists for various things that should be better. Personally I have had a number of procedures since COVID and been treated very well

The homeless situation is worse than it should be. Prices of houses are expensive. But those issues are no different to the vast amount of economically successful cities around the world. Personally I think there should be more focus on decentralisation and I think there has been a bit of a lost opportunity post Covid in that regard and not too much in manifestos about it.

I think the education system is really good. We are producing lots of bright students. My kids worked hard for the Leaving (in a non-fee DEIS school), are working hard in university and hopefully should have great opportunities when they graduate. I have a nephew who dropped out of college recently (first year) as it wasn't for him. But he immediately was out looking for work and already picked up a job in a FinTech outfit in Dublin paying about 35k. As an 18 year old with zero experience, I can't imagine what he'll be doing but it's a foot on the ladder into the real world

If people want to vote for change, then so be it. But the very most important thing is the economy. Once you have full employment like we have now, then you have the opportunity to spend tax revenues and try to make a positive difference. And while Cowen and Lenihan had a monumental fook up with the banking crisis, we otherwise have about 40 years of really good decision making from FF and FG to put us in the super economic situation we are in now

wouldn`t say its a mess but would characterise that there are substantial issues which must be addressed whilst the tax take is at such a high level
immigration  and indeed emmigration are issues( why do our brightest still feel the need to leave)
housing, health need to be looked at and whilst i agree the education system is fabulous more effort needs to be put into apprenticeships as we are going to have a highly educated populace with no tradesmen/women( as they have all left the fking place)
both kids who are highly educated in good jobs now live in Dublin( renting as costs astronomical), my view is that we need housing under control as both along with their friends looking at london, better accommodation etc for same costs.
can`t say any party will fix it but why have a surplus when we on`t use it to fix the issues.

[Rossfan]

Jases now they're against the EU as well.
Maybe they want to unite with Albania........

[Snapchap]

There's a lot of middle aged people who remember SF's support for the provos and remember the Provos being involved in organized armed robberies, violence against Gardai and indiscriminate killings of innocent people. I know that is scoffed at by many in here, but it's a fact that some people still would not vote SF because it's still in the memory banks of voters, but getting less important every election.

The sort of middle aged voters who, despite being fully aware that they were fed propaganda through Section 31 media censorship, still think that the version of the conflict presented to them under Section 31 was accurate, and so actually believe that the PIRA campaign was typified by the sort of things you describe above. Which is probably the same reason Micheal Martin gets away with claiming in the south that the IRA started the conflict. He knows that people for years were fed so much carefully controlled information about that north that many actually intrinsically believe this sort of demonstrably untrue claim to be true.

[Snapchap]

SF always characterise the 26 counties as a terrible place, which is strange as they are supposed to be trying to unite Ireland. They never come out and say clearly that things are much better in independent Ireland. I'd say that it will be characterised as a much better place if they get into power.

Isn't their line that things are bad in the south and worse in the north, because partition has been such a malign influence on both juridictions?

[naka]

There's a lot of middle aged people who remember SF's support for the provos and remember the Provos being involved in organized armed robberies, violence against Gardai and indiscriminate killings of innocent people. I know that is scoffed at by many in here, but it's a fact that some people still would not vote SF because it's still in the memory banks of voters, but getting less important every election.

The sort of middle aged voters who, despite being fully aware that they were fed propaganda through Section 31 media censorship, still think that the version of the conflict presented to them under Section 31 was accurate, and so actually believe that the PIRA campaign was typified by the sort of things you describe above. Which is probably the same reason Micheal Martin gets away with claiming in the south that the IRA started the conflict. He knows that people for years were fed so much carefully controlled information about that north that many actually intrinsically believe this sort of demonstrably untrue claim to be true.

not a friend of sf
but jeez that was a shocking statement from MM
ignorance might be ok but jeez don`t compound it.

[Rossfan]

True.
But the Provos were in the main a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts who spent most of the 70s and 80s in the 26 Cos. robbing banks as well as murdering servants of the Irish State and others.

To the under 40s that's about as relevant at Ballyseedy or Kilmichael - things that happened in the had old days.
But the older cohort remember it too well.

[weareros]

Sinn Fein were always anti EU. Both they and DUP campaigned against Ireland and UK joining EEC in 1973. Brexit gave them an opportunity to pivot and to be fair they did, although it was an absolute open goal given how much Unionists hopped on the Brexit bandwagon. If they missed, it would have been a shocking miss. Now PBP supported UK Brexit. Don't know why Murphy and Barrett are not given a harder time over that with all the media a 3% party get. When it comes to certain things, the line between hard left and hard right does not exist.

At a local level I don't think there's much hatred between parties. Certainly our local SF TD Claire Kerrane gave the warmest tribute to the FG candidate John Naughton who died suddenly before election. They all show up for everyone's funeral. At heart, Irish people are decent people no matter party. It's nothing like X/Twitter.

Much of the hatred is now theatrics. If a deal needs to be done, you can be sure the necessary side conversations will happen. Sure as we know now DUP were having side conversations with SF while at the same time lambasting anyone else who was talking to SF. The one constant in Irish politics is a bit of old fashioned hypocrisy.

[Snapchap]

True.
But the Provos were in the main a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts who spent most of the 70s and 80s in the 26 Cos. robbing banks as well as murdering servants of the Irish State and others.

To the under 40s that's about as relevant at Ballyseedy or Kilmichael - things that happened in the had old days.
But the older cohort remember it too well.

And were the Old IRA also "a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts"?

[HiMucker]

True.
But the Provos were in the main a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts who spent most of the 70s and 80s in the 26 Cos. robbing banks as well as murdering servants of the Irish State and others.

To the under 40s that's about as relevant at Ballyseedy or Kilmichael - things that happened in the had old days.
But the older cohort remember it too well.

Aye thats why most of them continued to be involved in all that long after the GFA....

[AustinPowers]

True.
But the Provos were in the main a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts who spent most of the 70s and 80s in the 26 Cos. robbing banks as well as murdering servants of the Irish State and others.

To the under 40s that's about as relevant at Ballyseedy or Kilmichael - things that happened in the had old days.
But the older cohort remember it too well.

And were the Old IRA also "a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts"?

Nah,  the Brits were shoo-ed out  by a couple of  auld dolls with floor brushes,   and  a few hefty fist shakes  aimed in their direction.

[snoopdog]

True.
But the Provos were in the main a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts who spent most of the 70s and 80s in the 26 Cos. robbing banks as well as murdering servants of the Irish State and others.

To the under 40s that's about as relevant at Ballyseedy or Kilmichael - things that happened in the had old days.
But the older cohort remember it too well.

While most in the 26 ignored the attrocities carried out on their fellow countrymen in the 6 counties.
And still barely recognise it to this day

[Rossfan]

True.
But the Provos were in the main a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts who spent most of the 70s and 80s in the 26 Cos. robbing banks as well as murdering servants of the Irish State and others.

To the under 40s that's about as relevant at Ballyseedy or Kilmichael - things that happened in the had old days.
But the older cohort remember it too well.

And were the Old IRA also "a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts"?

You obviously accept that the Provos were.
If some of the old IRA  were they were acting under the control of an elected Dáil/ Governnent (from mid 1919) which tried to keep some rein on them and the campaign lasted about 2 years.

[Snapchap]

True.
But the Provos were in the main a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts who spent most of the 70s and 80s in the 26 Cos. robbing banks as well as murdering servants of the Irish State and others.

To the under 40s that's about as relevant at Ballyseedy or Kilmichael - things that happened in the had old days.
But the older cohort remember it too well.

And were the Old IRA also "a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts"?

You obviously accept that the Provos were.
If some of the old IRA  were they were acting under the control of an elected Dáil/ Governnent (from mid 1919) which tried to keep some rein on them and the campaign lasted about 2 years.

No, I don't accept the Provos were "a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts". The overwhelming majority of their operations were directed at state forces and their installations. Did they carry out actions that were disgusting and unjustifiable? Of course. Same as any armed group in any conflict you can possibly think of, anywhere, in world history.

And let's not give me the "if" the Old IRA were "a nasty gang of bloodthirsty cnuts". Have the balls to state if they were or not. You've no problem doing so for the Provos, who killed a remarkably similar proportion of civilians relative to combatants as the Old IRA did.