Hamas attack Israel & subsequent genocide

[bennydorano]

Apply the thinking of Sir John Harrington who said - Treason never propsers, as if it does none dare call it treason. Only the successful aren't terrorists.

[Truthsayer]

You dare to call me terrorist...

[whitey]

I must have been off school the day the covered the part where the Men of 1916 anally raped the teenagers at a music festival


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna141789

[johnnycool]

I must have been off school the day the covered the part where the Men of 1916 anally raped the teenagers at a music festival


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna141789

I'm not saying that didn't happen but rape as a weapon is widely used by the IDF on a consistent basis

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/02/israelopt-un-experts-appalled-reported-human-rights-violations-against

And this isn't a new thing to the IDF before or after the "start" of the genocide.

Dehumanising your enemy is a trick the Israelies learned well from our neighbours.

[marty34]

Israel have recall that horrible hoor of an ambassador, good riddance. They've also threatened more "severe consequences" for us, Norway and Spain. Sounds like a threat to me.

She should have been booted out of Ireland months ago.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

I must have been off school the day the covered the part where the Men of 1916 anally raped the teenagers at a music festival


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna141789

The UN team "was unable to establish the prevalence of sexual violence and concludes that the overall magnitude, scope, and specific attribution of these violations would require a fully-fledged investigation."

the report notes, Israel has consistently refused to cooperate with independent UN investigators.

The investigators were unable to locate a single victim and did not speak to any alleged survivors of sexual violence or rape – despite making a public appeal for such survivors to come forward and speak confidentially and with assurances of safety and privacy.

they spoke to released hostages and no mention of any of these suffering sexual violence.

I have been consistent on this, I don't believe any of the Israeli govt claims, there is one claim that maybe credible but even if it does, it is an isolated incident. In saying that in all combat situation I suspect there is some level of sexual violence.

https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-691641

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-07-12/ty-article/.highlight/a-soldier-killed-herself-after-reporting-her-rape-the-army-did-little-to-help-her/00000181-eef2-daef-a79b-fef6754c0000

[Itchy]

I must have been off school the day the covered the part where the Men of 1916 anally raped the teenagers at a music festival


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna141789

I must have been off school the day the covered the part where the Men of 1916 anally raped the teenagers at a music festival


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna141789

Where did you get the "anal" description from. I don't think it's in the article and I don't recall that accusation being made anywhere before.

IF there was rape then there is of course no possible justification of that. But the evidence is flimsy at best.

[Milltown Row2]

Just good old fashion vagina rape!   

[Lubo Moravcik]

There is, as far as I'm aware, no evidence of this gang rape/mass rape thing. Its also pretty much accepted that Israel shot up a large amount of their own people. If they gave a damn about hostages they would gave negotiated their release, instead they carpet bombed civilian areas. You need to think of Israel as Nazis to understand the evil you are dealing with here.

I have no doubt that Israel wilfully murder and starve Palestinians - it's clear from their actions.

Though hasn't the ICC also accepted that Hamas fighters used sexual violence? I'd imagine they must have seen evidence before stating such.

Maybe they have, they've certainly said Hamas has a case to answer on it. But I've not seen any evidence from reliable sources and in fact some of the initial witnesses stating this were shown to be very unreliable. I would have thought it surely would've been out there for all to see if evidence was available. A bit like the weapons and tunnels in hospitals, none of it ever surfaced.

Israel's exaggerated reports of sexual violence are unbelievable but if the ICC are also citing it in their case agains the leadership of Hamas I'm inclined to think there must have been some level of truth in the original reports of rapes occurring.

The 'human shield' thing Israel use against Hamas I find ridiculous. Israel has never cared about harming civilians so what use are they as any type of shield.

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/icc-has-no-evidence-7-october-rapes-documents-indicate

Sorry but "My office continues to investigate reports of sexual violence committed on Oct 7th' does not mean that it did not occur.  Did Israel tell lies about the scale of it? I would say yes. Did rape occur? I'll wait for the ICC investigation to reach a conclusion on that.

The ICC seems to possess evidence that rape occurred in captivity, however the Electronic Intifada article is very causally dismissive of that:

"But does that mean that Khan possesses enough evidence of rapes and sexual violence against Israelis in captivity to warrant charges against Hamas leaders?

Obviously, we have not seen all the evidence that Khan claims to possess, but despite that we can fairly confidently assess that he does not."

I mean, come on, 'we can fairly confidently assess' - can you? How exactly?

[armaghniac]

Western standards laid bare for all to see:

I'm not sure the term "Western" is appropriate, every west European country and Canada, Australia and New Zealand support the ICC.

The USA don't.

Then the post should have referred to the USA and not to "Western".

[PadraicHenryPearse]

There is, as far as I'm aware, no evidence of this gang rape/mass rape thing. Its also pretty much accepted that Israel shot up a large amount of their own people. If they gave a damn about hostages they would gave negotiated their release, instead they carpet bombed civilian areas. You need to think of Israel as Nazis to understand the evil you are dealing with here.

I have no doubt that Israel wilfully murder and starve Palestinians - it's clear from their actions.

Though hasn't the ICC also accepted that Hamas fighters used sexual violence? I'd imagine they must have seen evidence before stating such.

Maybe they have, they've certainly said Hamas has a case to answer on it. But I've not seen any evidence from reliable sources and in fact some of the initial witnesses stating this were shown to be very unreliable. I would have thought it surely would've been out there for all to see if evidence was available. A bit like the weapons and tunnels in hospitals, none of it ever surfaced.

Israel's exaggerated reports of sexual violence are unbelievable but if the ICC are also citing it in their case agains the leadership of Hamas I'm inclined to think there must have been some level of truth in the original reports of rapes occurring.

The 'human shield' thing Israel use against Hamas I find ridiculous. Israel has never cared about harming civilians so what use are they as any type of shield.

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/icc-has-no-evidence-7-october-rapes-documents-indicate

Sorry but "My office continues to investigate reports of sexual violence committed on Oct 7th' does not mean that it did not occur.  Did Israel tell lies about the scale of it? I would say yes. Did rape occur? I'll wait for the ICC investigation to reach a conclusion on that.

The ICC seems to possess evidence that rape occurred in captivity, however the Electronic Intifada article is very causally dismissive of that:

"But does that mean that Khan possesses enough evidence of rapes and sexual violence against Israelis in captivity to warrant charges against Hamas leaders?

Obviously, we have not seen all the evidence that Khan claims to possess, but despite that we can fairly confidently assess that he does not."

I mean, come on, 'we can fairly confidently assess' - can you? How exactly?

what access to the current hostages does Khan have? there is no access to Gaza for international observers? How would the ICC know is happening to any hostages?

[Snapchap]

Western standards laid bare for all to see:

I'm not sure the term "Western" is appropriate, every west European country and Canada, Australia and New Zealand support the ICC.

The USA don't.

Then the post should have referred to the USA and not to "Western".

While your post shouldn't have made the claim that "every western country" supports the ICC.

[johnnycool]

Western standards laid bare for all to see:

I'm not sure the term "Western" is appropriate, every west European country and Canada, Australia and New Zealand support the ICC.

The USA don't.

Then the post should have referred to the USA and not to "Western".

While your post shouldn't have made the claim that "every western country" supports the ICC.

The point I was making is that the "western" world were up and arms and rightly so when Russia invaded Ukraine, sanctions, diplomats getting banned etc etc, but when Israel starts slaughtering the Palestinians on a scale that would make Pol Pot blush, there's none of the same concern.

[greatpoint]

Western standards laid bare for all to see:

I'm not sure the term "Western" is appropriate, every west European country and Canada, Australia and New Zealand support the ICC.

The USA don't.

Then the post should have referred to the USA and not to "Western".

While your post shouldn't have made the claim that "every western country" supports the ICC.

The point I was making is that the "western" world were up and arms and rightly so when Russia invaded Ukraine, sanctions, diplomats getting banned etc etc, but when Israel starts slaughtering the Palestinians on a scale that would make Pol Pot blush, there's none of the same concern.

Is there any nuance at all between the two conflicts or do you reckon they're directly comparable?

[johnnycool]

Western standards laid bare for all to see:

I'm not sure the term "Western" is appropriate, every west European country and Canada, Australia and New Zealand support the ICC.

The USA don't.

Then the post should have referred to the USA and not to "Western".

While your post shouldn't have made the claim that "every western country" supports the ICC.

The point I was making is that the "western" world were up and arms and rightly so when Russia invaded Ukraine, sanctions, diplomats getting banned etc etc, but when Israel starts slaughtering the Palestinians on a scale that would make Pol Pot blush, there's none of the same concern.

Is there any nuance at all between the two conflicts or do you reckon they're directly comparable?

The direct comparison is that innocent women and children are being killed in both.

what other nuance do you need?