Man Utd Thread:

[NAG1]

Financially United are in a good place but there's no doubt the debt and its interest has caused plenty of problems. If only Fergie has been given the money that Moyes and LVG had access too we wouldn't have had such a poor 3 seasons, Ronaldo & Tevez left the club and were replaced with Owen & Valencia. A huge % of the clubs turnover was used to service the debt around those years.

I'd imagine Fergie looks on enviously at the amount of money at the manager's disposal since he left. If Fergie had access to that kind of money United might have gone on to win the CL in 2010 and certainly would have done a lot better during the 2011/12 season and I'd imagine he'd have left a better starting 11.

Haha....so Fergie had no money to spend and the money he did have, he spent well? Fergie's transfer record was shite in his latter years and ended up costing Salford Inc 90 million just to buy back Pogba!

Is it your money? Then why get your knickers in a twist about someone else spending a multi billionaire's money?

You think AF will be remembered for the odd bad buy or for being the most successful manager in the clubs history?

Thought so.

[magpie seanie]

I'm not overjoyed by any of this but I can only say things are not as bleak looking as 5-10 years ago.

Does this mean that United fans might finally admit that the green and gold and guff about the Red Knights was all a load of shite that helped absolutely nobody other than the lads selling scarves outside Old Trafford?

Protesting against something that is wrong is never a waste of time or pointless. The debt that was loaded onto the club significantly impacted things. Ferguson's complete genius to be able to keep winning while the squad got weaker and weaker through lack of investment was a massive factor in the turnaround of the financial fortunes.....the Glazers owe him an awful lot.....but the lack of investment in the squad has led to the lack of competitiveness in recent seasons. That in turn has led to panic buying and player/manager turnover on a grand scale.

It must also be remembered that the owners are siphoning millions and millions out of the club annually - money that supporters view should stay in the club. Most pertinently, they were cleaning this money out of the club when Ferguson was not reinvesting in the squad (Ferguson always maintained he didn't see value and that's why he didn't buy but that was, I'm afraid, BS). I don't believe sports clubs should be owned by private interests. It's wrong to me to have investors profiting on the loyalty and emotional attachment of supporters to their club. I'm a dreamer perhaps but I still think the point is a correct one.

Gallsman - the G&G protests must have upset you a lot!

[NAG1]

I'm not overjoyed by any of this but I can only say things are not as bleak looking as 5-10 years ago.

Does this mean that United fans might finally admit that the green and gold and guff about the Red Knights was all a load of shite that helped absolutely nobody other than the lads selling scarves outside Old Trafford?

Protesting against something that is wrong is never a waste of time or pointless. The debt that was loaded onto the club significantly impacted things. Ferguson's complete genius to be able to keep winning while the squad got weaker and weaker through lack of investment was a massive factor in the turnaround of the financial fortunes.....the Glazers owe him an awful lot.....but the lack of investment in the squad has led to the lack of competitiveness in recent seasons. That in turn has led to panic buying and player/manager turnover on a grand scale.

It must also be remembered that the owners are siphoning millions and millions out of the club annually - money that supporters view should stay in the club. Most pertinently, they were cleaning this money out of the club when Ferguson was not reinvesting in the squad (Ferguson always maintained he didn't see value and that's why he didn't buy but that was, I'm afraid, BS). I don't believe sports clubs should be owned by private interests. It's wrong to me to have investors profiting on the loyalty and emotional attachment of supporters to their club. I'm a dreamer perhaps but I still think the point is a correct one.

Gallsman - the G&G protests must have upset you a lot!

I dont think any sports fan of any club in the same position would argue with you on any of that MS.

But unfortunately this is not the world we live in at present and until such times as laws are amended or created then the Glazers will be able to get the money out of the club.

[Maroon Manc]

Financially United are in a good place but there's no doubt the debt and its interest has caused plenty of problems.

Of course it has, but what has changed to the point that United are spending money (they always did - don't bring up that net spend wankery) and ardent anti-Glazer United fans like our own Seanie here have moved to an attitude of, and I'm paraphrasing here, "I guess it's not that bad"?

Off the top of my head United were spending about 30% of the clubs turnover on interest payments during the 2008/09 season as opposed to about 4% of last seasons turnover Thats a huge difference.

United didn't sign a big name player during the summers of 2009,2010 and 2011. We went from having the best first 11 in Europe to the most average United team of the last 20 years. Top players in Ronaldo & Tevez left whilst the likes of VDS retired and the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Rio, Gary Neville, Vidic & Evra were coming towards the end of their career whilst Hargreaves & Fletcher & Hargreaves had health and injury problems that  they would never recover from. United needed big money to replace those players and it wasn't available.

[gallsman]

Gallsman - the G&G protests must have upset you a lot!

Not in the slightest, I just thought it was daft and delusional how many people (including on here) maintained that it was something that would have any sort of impact on the running of the club. I can't remember who it was but a couple of years ago someone posted a photo here on the photo of Beckham picking up the g&g scarf whilst playing for PSG and describing it like it was some sort of watershed moment.

[magpie seanie]

Gallsman - the G&G protests must have upset you a lot!

Not in the slightest, I just thought it was daft and delusional how many people (including on here) maintained that it was something that would have any sort of impact on the running of the club. I can't remember who it was but a couple of years ago someone posted a photo here on the photo of Beckham picking up the g&g scarf whilst playing for PSG and describing it like it was some sort of watershed moment.

Most likely me, I've been one of the most vocal on this issue here. It was a huge moment. The people involved in the Red Knights weren't just timewasters. There were several very well connected people involved including Jim O'Neill who were genuinely trying to pull together a deal together with M.U.S.T. and they weren't a million miles away. They probably could have raised the funds for a takeover at one point but with a private company the owner has to want to sell. Making the Glazers feel uncomfortable or that the grief wasn't worth it was part of the plan but in hindsight, those guys don't give a crap. With all the business failures they've been through and going through life looking like they do they aren't thin skinned.

Regardless though - if something is clearly wrong you have to do something about it. That's what's wrong with the world and why we end up with the Trumps/Kenny's etc of the world.....people just say "ah, sure that's the way it is" and do nothing. We get what we deserve. At least if you don't lie down you're keeping a bit of hope alive. And keeping the right way on the agenda. Supporters of all clubs should have joined in. You hear every conversation now about how money is ruining the game....what is anyone doing about it? Nothing.

Beckham was playing for AC Milan that night by the way.

[gallsman]

Sorry, you're right, it was Beckham at Milan and the poster here was marking the 5th anniversary I think.

In what way was it huge?! Corporate coat hanger (who I quite like by the way) who has more than most to be grateful for how much money rules the game shows his support for the little man? It was meaningless tokenism.

Of course people should protest at what they feel is injustice - what is utterly daft is deluding oneself into believing it actually achieved anything. United fans never boycotted OT, never put the Glazers under any serious pressure. Everything just sort of faded away and more you're on here effectively saying (again paraphrasing) "ah, I guess it's not that bad".

[AZOffaly]

But gallsman, were they not protesting BECAUSE the Glazers were using United to leverage their debt, instead of investing big time in the club. Now that they have changed tack a little bit (or quite a lot if Maroon Manc's figures are correct) then the protests have tapered off. That's fairly predictable I'd have thought.

The question, I suppose, is did the Glazers loosen up because they got tired of the fans being on their backs, or did they loosen up because somebody finally told them that you have to spend massive money to quickly compete with the other big spenders?

It may be a moot point, because the end result is the same, but perhaps the fans protests did at least bring the Glazers attention to the fact they were unhappy.

[Maroon Manc]

But gallsman, were they not protesting BECAUSE the Glazers were using United to leverage their debt, instead of investing big time in the club. Now that they have changed tack a little bit (or quite a lot if Maroon Manc's figures are correct) then the protests have tapered off. That's fairly predictable I'd have thought.

The question, I suppose, is did the Glazers loosen up because they got tired of the fans being on their backs, or did they loosen up because somebody finally told them that you have to spend massive money to quickly compete with the other big spenders?

It may be a moot point, because the end result is the same, but perhaps the fans protests did at least bring the Glazers attention to the fact they were unhappy.

More money has been spent because there was actually money to spend, interest payments had been reduced and the turnover was increasing and secondly it needed to be spent given the state of the team.

[StGallsGAA]

But gallsman, were they not protesting BECAUSE the Glazers were using United to leverage their debt, instead of investing big time in the club. Now that they have changed tack a little bit (or quite a lot if Maroon Manc's figures are correct) then the protests have tapered off. That's fairly predictable I'd have thought.

The question, I suppose, is did the Glazers loosen up because they got tired of the fans being on their backs, or did they loosen up because somebody finally told them that you have to spend massive money to quickly compete with the other big spenders?

It may be a moot point, because the end result is the same, but perhaps the fans protests did at least bring the Glazers attention to the fact they were unhappy.

More money has been spent because there was actually money to spend, interest payments had been reduced and the turnover was increasing and secondly it needed to be spent given the state of the team.

Also worth mentioning that the Old Man Miser popped his clogs and the 2 f**k-wits who now run the show are vying for popularity with the masses and spending money like nobody's business to achieve that. 

[Boycey]

The Glazers couldn't give a rats ass about popularity..

[stiffler]

Utd knocking my bet !

Need to up their game 2nd half.

[Milltown Row2]

Terrible performance so many shots on target not worth the draw to be honest

[GJL]

Decent point in the end. Well done to Rooney on the record and a superb goal but I thought he was poor otherwise.

[Captain Obvious]

Terrible performance so many shots on target not worth the draw to be honest

Don't think so. Well worth the draw it was one traffic that match, hard to believe Manchester United almost lost that game and the Stoke goal was a OG.

Some strike by Rooney to break the scoring record.