The DUP thread

[Munchie]

The whole grade system in the public sector is a complete disaster. Prime getting "promoted" where there are no jobs available and then get to merrily sit on a list for the next job at that grade to come up whether qualified for it or not.

Have a family friend (who is very capable and works hard) in this exact position recently. Got promoted. No job. Job comes up at her grade in a completely different department looking after a completely different sector, and she automatically gets it.

And unions negotiate pay rises based on being an employee and nothing to do with performance.

[johnnycool]

"Layman's view on how to fix the issues, build more hospitals"
Has it occurred to anyone why we have an ever increasing sick population? Have we somehow created a system that incentivizes poor health, for as far as I can see most of this is self inflicted.
Also, how about tackling the systematic waste in the NHS. If something is "free", people can't help themselves but take the piss out of it.
I am for paying a bit less tax but paying for healthcare and medications as an when I need it.

The much vaunted Bengoa report which is probably defunct now said that we had too many hospitals and services needed to be centralised into specialist hubs.

image a Unionist minister giving the go ahead to close Lagan Valley or a nationalist minister giving the go ahead of closing Downpatrick or Omagh!

[BigGreenField]

"Layman's view on how to fix the issues, build more hospitals"
Has it occurred to anyone why we have an ever increasing sick population? Have we somehow created a system that incentivizes poor health, for as far as I can see most of this is self inflicted.
Also, how about tackling the systematic waste in the NHS. If something is "free", people can't help themselves but take the piss out of it.
I am for paying a bit less tax but paying for healthcare and medications as an when I need it.

The much vaunted Bengoa report which is probably defunct now said that we had too many hospitals and services needed to be centralised into specialist hubs.

image a Unionist minister giving the go ahead to close Lagan Valley or a nationalist minister giving the go ahead of closing Downpatrick or Omagh!

Total lack of leadership, the argument is people don't want to die on the road to [bigger population centre]

Well, you are going to die anyway as the consultant treating you as no experience which is why he is working in your local rural clinic.

It is one of the downside of mandatory coalition, why take the risk of changing anything, protect the status quo.

At some stage people have to be levelled with, if you want to live in the arsehole of nowhere then you can't expect the same services as large populations unless rates go through the roof, that includes the ability to drive into those large centres - get the bus or train or cycle or walk but stop polluting the town/city air because you want to live on a half acre next to your ma.

[AustinPowers]

You can't escape the benefit culture in the 6, I in 3 cars are DVLA ffs, the public sector is overloaded with folk doing little or nothing, that's not doctors, nurses, fire fighters, police etc. that is 30000 in the civil service kicking their heels up and folk on the hill paying family and friends to do likewise, it is a shithole and as long as these career politicians orange and green get voted in for doing nothing, nothing will change.

That's not unique to NI though, people on benefits all over the UK and indeed ROI.
There will always be people who abuse the system - doesn't mean do away with the system, more that it needs to be fixed. But it needs fixed in a way that doesn't adversely affect those genuinely in need.

Growing up, I knew of plenty who "did the double" - mostly because they couldn't afford not to. Of the people I know on who are on benefits all are in need, 1 has a DLA car and it's entirely warranted.
Whilst I agree there are plenty out there abusing the system, I also don't buy the assertion that they're all milking it which is what terms like "benefit culture" suggest. All sounds a bit Nigel Farage-ish.

But to return to my point on what a minimum acceptable standard of living costs, there are many people who do not have the skills or qualifications to earn a household 65K a year for a small family to survive. So of course they will revert to the benefit system, why wouldn't they? If the cost of living was lower, it might reduce the number of people on benefits. At the minute, the UK government approach is to increase the minimum wage and stop the boats and increase taxes, which increases cost of living and that just perpetuates the cycle.

I do agree with the Civil Service issues to a certain extent. Feels artificially bloated in areas. The entitlement to non-performance related pay rises is not conducive to a performant service - instead it rewards those who are not very good at their job. Then there's the pensions they get too, which we all pay for.
It's just another element of society here that's not really fixable in the short term, especially with unions in to the hilt. But remember Civil Service includes doctors and nurses, teachers and bin collectors. All essential - it's more those back office / managerial roles that seem to be where the issues are. At least from the outside looking in. There might be 30K in the civil service, but I'd imagine the numbers that could be trimmed from the service could be small enough.

As for career politicians, genuinely not entirely clear what you mean by that term? Do you mean just in it for the money? If so, I'm sure for some that is the case but others are in it for the ideology of their parties. I think that most do want to represent their own communities, it's just that some are not very good at putting that ahead of their own personal goals.

Yes, good points

[AustinPowers]

"Layman's view on how to fix the issues, build more hospitals"
Has it occurred to anyone why we have an ever increasing sick population? Have we somehow created a system that incentivizes poor health, for as far as I can see most of this is self inflicted.
Also, how about tackling the systematic waste in the NHS. If something is "free", people can't help themselves but take the piss out of it.
I am for paying a bit less tax but paying for healthcare and medications as an when I need it.

I've paid for private  consultations over the years, from £100-200. But the amount of missed appointments is ridiculous. If people were charged £100-200   for a missed appointment, they'd turn up next time.  Same with  missed doctors appointment.

If Stormont  are looking for a revenue raising  method, I'd say most  people would be  in favour of this one.

[AustinPowers]

"Layman's view on how to fix the issues, build more hospitals"
Has it occurred to anyone why we have an ever increasing sick population? Have we somehow created a system that incentivizes poor health, for as far as I can see most of this is self inflicted.
Also, how about tackling the systematic waste in the NHS. If something is "free", people can't help themselves but take the piss out of it.
I am for paying a bit less tax but paying for healthcare and medications as an when I need it.

Even if they did attempt to raise money, by doing away with free prescriptions for those working or introducing water charges, would you have any faith in them spending the money where needed, waste, waste and repeat and they yap the Brits aren't given them enough money.

100% No.

It's just more money for. them to piss up the wall. 

Let's say there's 500,000  households in the north, who pay £500 water charges a year.  That's 250 million. Correct me if I'm wrong , but that chicken house  scheme cost nearly 500 million.  Need I say more?

[Armagh18]

"Layman's view on how to fix the issues, build more hospitals"
Has it occurred to anyone why we have an ever increasing sick population? Have we somehow created a system that incentivizes poor health, for as far as I can see most of this is self inflicted.
Also, how about tackling the systematic waste in the NHS. If something is "free", people can't help themselves but take the piss out of it.
I am for paying a bit less tax but paying for healthcare and medications as an when I need it.

I've paid for private  consultations over the years, from £100-200. But the amount of missed appointments is ridiculous. If people were charged £100-200  for a missed appointment, they'd turn up next time.  Same with  missed doctors appointment.

If Stormont  are looking for a revenue raising  method, I'd say more people would be  in favour of this one.

Yeah that'd definitely be one worth looking at. Basic decency would mean either turning up or letting them know you won't be there. Fine away for no shows imo

[LC]

"Layman's view on how to fix the issues, build more hospitals"
Has it occurred to anyone why we have an ever increasing sick population? Have we somehow created a system that incentivizes poor health, for as far as I can see most of this is self inflicted.
Also, how about tackling the systematic waste in the NHS. If something is "free", people can't help themselves but take the piss out of it.
I am for paying a bit less tax but paying for healthcare and medications as an when I need it.

Does not apply to all cases but a significant proportion.

A lot of Mr & Mrs (each 20 stone plus) about pushing a trolley around Tesco's stacked with all of shite of the day.  If not already they and their off spring are / will be clogging up the system now and in the future due to their 'lifestyle'.  It amazes me that in the so call deprived areas of places like Belfast / Derry you have no shortage of takeaways, off-licenses and pharmacists and usually all beside other.

[Munchie]

Not to mention betting shops open from craic of dawn with an unlimited supply of customers.

[LC]

Not to mention betting shops open from craic of dawn with an unlimited supply of customers.

Must be all calling in on their way home from working a night shift...........some chance. 

More like 'work shy' areas as opposed to working class.

[Snapchap]

You can't escape the benefit culture in the 6, I in 3 cars are DVLA ffs, the public sector is overloaded with folk doing little or nothing, that's not doctors, nurses, fire fighters, police etc. that is 30000 in the civil service kicking their heels up and folk on the hill paying family and friends to do likewise, it is a shithole and as long as these career politicians orange and green get voted in for doing nothing, nothing will change.

you really have an issue with the NICS

I honestly think Munchie has an issue with absolutely everything. Every post I come across from him is negativity. Even the existence of the feckin Late Late Toy Show is source of a gripe ffs!

[Rossfan]

I see DUP trying to block SF attempts to get "Observer status" at the EU.
And did I hear correctly that Paul Given won't approve letting girls wear trousers in schools?

[tonto1888]

You can't escape the benefit culture in the 6, I in 3 cars are DVLA ffs, the public sector is overloaded with folk doing little or nothing, that's not doctors, nurses, fire fighters, police etc. that is 30000 in the civil service kicking their heels up and folk on the hill paying family and friends to do likewise, it is a shithole and as long as these career politicians orange and green get voted in for doing nothing, nothing will change.

you really have an issue with the NICS

I honestly think Munchie has an issue with absolutely everything. Every post I come across from him is negativity. Even the existence of the feckin Late Late Toy Show is source of a gripe ffs!

definitely seems that way

[tbrick18]

"Layman's view on how to fix the issues, build more hospitals"
Has it occurred to anyone why we have an ever increasing sick population? Have we somehow created a system that incentivizes poor health, for as far as I can see most of this is self inflicted.
Also, how about tackling the systematic waste in the NHS. If something is "free", people can't help themselves but take the piss out of it.
I am for paying a bit less tax but paying for healthcare and medications as an when I need it.

Does not apply to all cases but a significant proportion.

A lot of Mr & Mrs (each 20 stone plus) about pushing a trolley around Tesco's stacked with all of shite of the day.  If not already they and their off spring are / will be clogging up the system now and in the future due to their 'lifestyle'.  It amazes me that in the so call deprived areas of places like Belfast / Derry you have no shortage of takeaways, off-licenses and pharmacists and usually all beside other.

Ah lads, that's a bit simplistic if you ask me. I'm not 20 stone, but I know I'm too heavy, have always struggled with weight and have managed to shift about 2 stone over the last year. But, I don't eat all the shite of the day and my kids eat the same diet I do with not one of them overweight. Yes there are some 'lifestyle' issues affecting the health, but the main issue is that people are living longer and the population is growing - and on the flip side services have been reduced due to prolonged lack of investment. Maybe if Bengoa had been implemented at the time we'd be in a better shape now, but I'm not sure about that.
When my local hospital regularly has 19hr A&E waits at this time of year, its not down to lifestyle patients, it's down to not enough capacity in the system to deal with acute spikes in seasonal illness.

People can't get out of hospital as care packages can't be put in place - generally with older people. Which blocks beds.
People can't get to see a consultant as waiting lists are so long, meaning early interventions are reduced, adding more pressure on beds as people who could have avoided getting seriously ill are becoming seriously ill or worse.

I don't know what the answer is to all this, but it feels to me that a complete reset is is needed. If you were to build a health service today from scratch, you'd build it to meet current and known future demand and with scope to scale up or down as needed.
So maybe what's needed is in the short term increase capacity, with the view of streamlining in the longer term.

[Tony Baloney]

Lifestyle diseases may not be the main factor but they are certainly significant. 10s of billions per annum and I'd reckon a large proportion of those people in hospital or treatment for obesity or smoking/alcohol/drug related issues are contributing little to nothing in taxes.