The DUP thread

[marty34]

How come ole Geoff trial cant go forward.If this was the common man would he get the same leeway?

Yeah, was thinking that myself.

What's the story of the delays?

[general_lee]

How come ole Geoff trial cant go forward.If this was the common man would he get the same leeway?

Yeah, was thinking that myself.

What's the story of the delays?

Lady Donaldson being "unwell". They're being tried together to save the alleged victim(s) having to go through two trials, is my understanding.

[Milltown Row2]

SF will be the main reasons that the DUP and others are still getting the votes, like it or not that is the main bogeyman..

But we'll just have to plough on as neither will be going away and a UI will still be 50 plus years away, that generation that never had the troubles is still being fed hatred. Unionist parties don't have to do much to stoke the fires, any party that agrees with a motion put by SF will get lumped into the same boat

No, it's not SF.

Go back to the 20's, up to the 60's and 70's, there was no SF so to speak. It was Catholics, starting with whoever the main nationalist party was at that time.

SF is the relatively 'new issue' for them.

The worst thing to happen to unionism was the ceasefire.

Give the unionist/loyalist any food they'll eat it up..

Forget about the past and just look at social media today, there's enough tit for tat shit on there to generate plenty of division

Sf are the main bogeymen. Having (and a good mate of mine) people in government that have a history will always be used against SF and nationalists will always be thrown into the same boat..

I really can't see a way out, there are times now I actually think it's worse than before

[David McKeown]

How come ole Geoff trial cant go forward.If this was the common man would he get the same leeway?

Yes in fact this case is being advanced much more quickly than it would be if it were the common man.

Whilst I've no specific knowledge of the case other than what's in press report is it seems that Lady Donaldsons legal team have concerns over her fitness to either plead or stand trial. It's a prerequisite of the law that at all times throughout the criminal process a person must be fit.

As a result of these concerns the defence team have had Lady Donaldson examined by an RQIA appointed consultant. That consultant has obviously been satisfied that at present she isn't fit.

As a result the PPS have sought their own opinion. Again from an RQIA appointed consultant. It's not clear what they have determined.

Either way a second consultant is required by law for the defence.

Whilst it may appear to be slow it's not. These consultants are very limited in number. I recently tried 17 of them and only 2 see the defendant within 18 months.

Without all the reports it's difficult to know how the case will proceed. It could be she's found fit and the trial can commence soon, it's possible she's not and a fact finding here could be held. It's also possible that she's not fit now but could be after months of treatments. Ultimately the trials could be split but that's very very rare and highly unlikely

[nrico2006]

How come ole Geoff trial cant go forward.If this was the common man would he get the same leeway?

Yes in fact this case is being advanced much more quickly than it would be if it were the common man.

Whilst I've no specific knowledge of the case other than what's in press report is it seems that Lady Donaldsons legal team have concerns over her fitness to either plead or stand trial. It's a prerequisite of the law that at all times throughout the criminal process a person must be fit.

As a result of these concerns the defence team have had Lady Donaldson examined by an RQIA appointed consultant. That consultant has obviously been satisfied that at present she isn't fit.

As a result the PPS have sought their own opinion. Again from an RQIA appointed consultant. It's not clear what they have determined.

Either way a second consultant is required by law for the defence.

Whilst it may appear to be slow it's not. These consultants are very limited in number. I recently tried 17 of them and only 2 see the defendant within 18 months.

Without all the reports it's difficult to know how the case will proceed. It could be she's found fit and the trial can commence soon, it's possible she's not and a fact finding here could be held. It's also possible that she's not fit now but could be after months of treatments. Ultimately the trials could be split but that's very very rare and highly unlikely

What conditions specifically could result in her being unfit to stand trial?

[Pub Bore]

@David McKeown
If she's not fit to enter a plea, never mind stand trial, what happens to the charges against her??

[imtommygunn]

You would want to see them split then...

If your man is guilty of what they say he is then he needs to be locked up and shamed for what he is. If he's innocent he should be cleared too.

[David McKeown]

How come ole Geoff trial cant go forward.If this was the common man would he get the same leeway?

Yes in fact this case is being advanced much more quickly than it would be if it were the common man.

Whilst I've no specific knowledge of the case other than what's in press report is it seems that Lady Donaldsons legal team have concerns over her fitness to either plead or stand trial. It's a prerequisite of the law that at all times throughout the criminal process a person must be fit.

As a result of these concerns the defence team have had Lady Donaldson examined by an RQIA appointed consultant. That consultant has obviously been satisfied that at present she isn't fit.

As a result the PPS have sought their own opinion. Again from an RQIA appointed consultant. It's not clear what they have determined.

Either way a second consultant is required by law for the defence.

Whilst it may appear to be slow it's not. These consultants are very limited in number. I recently tried 17 of them and only 2 see the defendant within 18 months.

Without all the reports it's difficult to know how the case will proceed. It could be she's found fit and the trial can commence soon, it's possible she's not and a fact finding here could be held. It's also possible that she's not fit now but could be after months of treatments. Ultimately the trials could be split but that's very very rare and highly unlikely

What conditions specifically could result in her being unfit to stand trial?

It's not a condition per se it's a test to be applied. A person is unfit if they fail to meet any of the following criteria

a person is unfit to plead if he/she is unable to do any one of the following:-

To understand the charges
To decide whether to plead guilty or not
To exercise their right to challenge jurors
To follow the course of proceedings
To give evidence in their own defence
To instruct their legal representatives

Unfitness is a very high bar to reach

 

[David McKeown]

@David McKeown
If she's not fit to enter a plea, never mind stand trial, what happens to the charges against her??

A fact finding hearing where a jury will determine if she did the acts alleged. This is different to a trial and to a finding of guilt.

If she did the acts alleged she will be made subject to a hospital order.

[David McKeown]

You would want to see them split then...

If your man is guilty of what they say he is then he needs to be locked up and shamed for what he is. If he's innocent he should be cleared too.

Splitting the trials may end up happening but it's completely undesirable to have the complainants to have to give evidence twice. Potentially not fair on the defendants either in terms of admissibility of evidence that may arise. It's quite complete

[Wildweasel74]

Surely Michael Stone was unfit for trial. Grade A pyscho!

[Milltown Row2]

Surely Michael Stone was unfit for trial. Grade A pyscho!

Which time?

Jesus! I was there that day ducking into graves! That noise still sounding in my head! Crazy

[seafoid]

Surely Michael Stone was unfit for trial. Grade A pyscho!

Which time?

Jesus! I was there that day ducking into graves! That noise still sounding in my head! Crazy

The late 80s were brutal in the North.