Russia invades Ukraine Feb 2022

[Hand of God]

So once again you just ignore everything that refutes the argument you're attempting to make and move the conversation along to more bullshit.

The most cynical thing about tankies is that they dress up their support of Russia as concern for Ukrainians. Utter ghouls, the lot of them.

As long as the Ukrainian people want to stand up to Russia, I will support them. As for any Ukrainian who doesn't want to fight, I don't blame them either, but at least I do know who to blame, that has pushed Ukraine to such desperate measures.

As for going to the frontlines, yeah, thats's another tankie favourite, as if you can't support the right of a nation to fight annihilation without picking up a rifle yourself.

Interestingly it's usually a certain type of pro-Palestinian that uses this argument, despite the irony being that haven't set foot in the West Bank or Gaza in their lives. Or done anything to help Palestine other than slabber online. Someone else put it perfectly on this board elsewhere, 'mouthy c*nt', I think the expression was. HoG fits the description perfectly.

You can call me a "mouthy ****" all you want. You're the ethno supremacist fascist here and a cowardly one at that. Why don't you go out your life on the line for Ukraine rather than demanding the lives of innocents are given up because the US and Western states want to have their puppets in charge.

You are sounding like a unhinged conspiracy theorist with the incessant propaganda and smears you spread.

I have demanded nothing.

Ukraine has never asked for others to go and fight for them, they have only ever asked for support, which I have given.

You have given your support to child murdering, rapist Russia. You don't care about dead civilians in Ukraine  or anywhere else.

You're no better than a flag-waving Zionist.

You leech off Palestininan suffering to feed your anti-western ideology.

I don't leech on anything. I'm consistent in my view in that I think Russia are an imperialist superpower like the Western nations but with nowhere near as much blood on their hands.

You on the other hand think the West are the good guys despite their centuries of colonisation and genocide dating up to the present day. Ukraine doesn't hold a candle to the Western backed depravity in Gaza.

You don't care about Ukraine. Go and put your life on the line for them if you do.

[Look-Up!]

You could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
/quote]

I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?

Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.

Years ago some Lithuanian mates were on about Russia and how dangerous they were and that there was a genuine fear at home from some people that there would be an attempt to take them over again. I listened but didn't pay any heed. Sounded a bit far fetched and paranoid. Just a symptom of their justified dislike of Russia, but the world had moved on.

Then there was all the scaremongering a few years ago from some sections in the news. Russia were going to invade Ukraine. Thought they were all off their heads, just a bit of posturing from Putin. Couldn't believe what's happened since. So I wouldn't put too much past Russia at this stage.

End of the day Europe needs to be independent and secure, that much is now clear. And it wants an army not to push a narrative, it wants an army because it needs an army. There are no genuine allies. If I had heard someone say this a few years ago I'd have said they needed a slap, but that's where we're at unfortunately.

[Banks of the Bann]

So once again you just ignore everything that refutes the argument you're attempting to make and move the conversation along to more bullshit.

The most cynical thing about tankies is that they dress up their support of Russia as concern for Ukrainians. Utter ghouls, the lot of them.

As long as the Ukrainian people want to stand up to Russia, I will support them. As for any Ukrainian who doesn't want to fight, I don't blame them either, but at least I do know who to blame, that has pushed Ukraine to such desperate measures.

As for going to the frontlines, yeah, thats's another tankie favourite, as if you can't support the right of a nation to fight annihilation without picking up a rifle yourself.

Interestingly it's usually a certain type of pro-Palestinian that uses this argument, despite the irony being that haven't set foot in the West Bank or Gaza in their lives. Or done anything to help Palestine other than slabber online. Someone else put it perfectly on this board elsewhere, 'mouthy c*nt', I think the expression was. HoG fits the description perfectly.

You can call me a "mouthy ****" all you want. You're the ethno supremacist fascist here and a cowardly one at that. Why don't you go out your life on the line for Ukraine rather than demanding the lives of innocents are given up because the US and Western states want to have their puppets in charge.

You are sounding like a unhinged conspiracy theorist with the incessant propaganda and smears you spread.

I have demanded nothing.

Ukraine has never asked for others to go and fight for them, they have only ever asked for support, which I have given.

You have given your support to child murdering, rapist Russia. You don't care about dead civilians in Ukraine  or anywhere else.

You're no better than a flag-waving Zionist.

You leech off Palestininan suffering to feed your anti-western ideology.

I don't leech on anything. I'm consistent in my view in that I think Russia are an imperialist superpower like the Western nations but with nowhere near as much blood on their hands.

You on the other hand think the West are the good guys despite their centuries of colonisation and genocide dating up to the present day. Ukraine doesn't hold a candle to the Western backed depravity in Gaza.

You don't care about Ukraine. Go and put your life on the line for them if you do.

Everything you've written is bullshit as usual:

1. If you insist on a blood league table, I'd suggest you do it by country, not Russia vs 'the west' (many countries).

2.  If you do think Russia does not have as much blood on its hands as western countries, i would suggest you go to the library and read a book.

3. I have never stated 'the west' are the 'good guys'. I have stated the west are correct to support Ukraine.

4.  Ukraine is the victim of Russian aggression.

5.  The depravity inflicted on Ukraine by Russia easily matches what Israel has done in Gaza (and the west enabled) both in terms of death count and devastation.

6. I won't say it's worse, I don't want to downplay Palestinian suffering. I'll leave that for cynical tankies. Gaza suffers. Ukraine suffers.

6. Russia has also brought its own particular trademark barbarism and cruelty to Ukraine,

i.e.
rape of men, women and children and videoing themselves doing so
torture chambers
murder of POWS by beheading and videoing themselves doing so
castration and murder of POWs and videoing themselves doing so
and on and on

Of course, you don't care about any of the above. Your ideology, makes allowances for it. As long  as a regime opposes the west, all is good. It's for others to suffer oppression under the regimes, but not for you.

p.s. do tell me all about your last trip to Palestine. Leech.

[Banks of the Bann]

You could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.

I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?

Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.
[/quote]

Burdjizzo in Ireland doesn't buy it folks. Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, whose occupation by the Russians only ended in 1993/4 are all delusional and scaremongering.

I'll bet you didn't buy that Russia was gearing up to invade Ukraine either, did you?

p.s. do you know why Finland has one of the most formidable armies in Europe?

[Banks of the Bann]

You could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
/quote]

I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?

Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.

Years ago some Lithuanian mates were on about Russia and how dangerous they were and that there was a genuine fear at home from some people that there would be an attempt to take them over again. I listened but didn't pay any heed. Sounded a bit far fetched and paranoid. Just a symptom of their justified dislike of Russia, but the world had moved on.

Then there was all the scaremongering a few years ago from some sections in the news. Russia were going to invade Ukraine. Thought they were all off their heads, just a bit of posturing from Putin. Couldn't believe what's happened since. So I wouldn't put too much past Russia at this stage.

End of the day Europe needs to be independent and secure, that much is now clear. And it wants an army not to push a narrative, it wants an army because it needs an army. There are no genuine allies. If I had heard someone say this a few years ago I'd have said they needed a slap, but that's where we're at unfortunately.

Well said, especially now that NATO is more or less toast. At least for as long as Trump/MAGA are in the WH.

[Genocide Organ]

You could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.

I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?

Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.

Would it be surprising if he tried for more if he got Ukraine?


[/quote]

Well, according to some on here, this war has been a disaster for Russia, and Russia is on the point of collapse. So, just after being nearly brought to its knees by the Ukrainian effort, can it really invade the EU?!! I somehow doubt it!
Besides, Russia has its own demographic problems, too. No longer can it afford to send endless bodies to the front. An invasion of the EU would put in the ha'penny place the losses in Ukraine. Unless the reckoning is that the EU won't fight at all?

[Armagh18]

You could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.

I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?

Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.

Would it be surprising if he tried for more if he got Ukraine?

Well, according to some on here, this war has been a disaster for Russia, and Russia is on the point of collapse. So, just after being nearly brought to its knees by the Ukrainian effort, can it really invade the EU?!! I somehow doubt it!
Besides, Russia has its own demographic problems, too. No longer can it afford to send endless bodies to the front. An invasion of the EU would put in the ha'penny place the losses in Ukraine. Unless the reckoning is that the EU won't fight at all?
[/quote] Well they have managed to control America without firing a single shot

[Look-Up!]

You could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
/quote]

I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?

Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.

Years ago some Lithuanian mates were on about Russia and how dangerous they were and that there was a genuine fear at home from some people that there would be an attempt to take them over again. I listened but didn't pay any heed. Sounded a bit far fetched and paranoid. Just a symptom of their justified dislike of Russia, but the world had moved on.

Then there was all the scaremongering a few years ago from some sections in the news. Russia were going to invade Ukraine. Thought they were all off their heads, just a bit of posturing from Putin. Couldn't believe what's happened since. So I wouldn't put too much past Russia at this stage.

End of the day Europe needs to be independent and secure, that much is now clear. And it wants an army not to push a narrative, it wants an army because it needs an army. There are no genuine allies. If I had heard someone say this a few years ago I'd have said they needed a slap, but that's where we're at unfortunately.

Well said, especially now that NATO is more or less toast. At least for as long as Trump/MAGA are in the WH.

Unfortunately if Trump dropped dead tomorrow it doesn't change much. USA is a basket case of media and culture war politics. Money talks there and they will sell their souls to the devil for any short sighted quick advantage. Guessing the political climate there in 4,8,12,16....etc years time is not how Europe needs to be planning its future. For years we've left things go as we thought they had our backs but that's proven foolhardy. It's a rude awakening and it will take years of stable building and co-operation between member states to get to a more secure Europe but that's the course we must set.

[Look-Up!]

You could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.

I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?

Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.

Would it be surprising if he tried for more if he got Ukraine?


/quote]

Well, according to some on here, this war has been a disaster for Russia, and Russia is on the point of collapse. So, just after being nearly brought to its knees by the Ukrainian effort, can it really invade the EU?!! I somehow doubt it!
Besides, Russia has its own demographic problems, too. No longer can it afford to send endless bodies to the front. An invasion of the EU would put in the ha'penny place the losses in Ukraine. Unless the reckoning is that the EU won't fight at all?

What's that got to do with the security of Europe? It's not just about being able to repel an invasion from Russia on members, something which can no longer just be dismissed as pie in the sky. It's also about protection of energy and communication infrastructures whether it be wind farms, solar farms, nuclear facilities, subsea cables etc. We're moving away from oil and gas, well Russian oil and gas anyway. Our aim is to be energy dependent and that's going to hurt many suppliers outside the Union. So we need to be able to offer a serious deterrent to anyone thinking of sabotaging these infrastructures. And I'm not talking about strongly worded letters either.

[seafoid]

You could add that Ukraine is just the start. Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.

I don't buy that - at all. Where's the evidence?

Meanwhile, EU wants an army so pushes that narrative.

Would it be surprising if he tried for more if he got Ukraine?


/quote]

Well, according to some on here, this war has been a disaster for Russia, and Russia is on the point of collapse. So, just after being nearly brought to its knees by the Ukrainian effort, can it really invade the EU?!! I somehow doubt it!
Besides, Russia has its own demographic problems, too. No longer can it afford to send endless bodies to the front. An invasion of the EU would put in the ha'penny place the losses in Ukraine. Unless the reckoning is that the EU won't fight at all?

What's that got to do with the security of Europe? It's not just about being able to repel an invasion from Russia on members, something which can no longer just be dismissed as pie in the sky. It's also about protection of energy and communication infrastructures whether it be wind farms, solar farms, nuclear facilities, subsea cables etc. We're moving away from oil and gas, well Russian oil and gas anyway. Our aim is to be energy dependent and that's going to hurt many suppliers outside the Union. So we need to be able to offer a serious deterrent to anyone thinking of sabotaging these infrastructures. And I'm not talking about strongly worded letters either.

https://www.ft.com/content/2ee21b5c-24fc-400e-a51d-2c197d09c471

Russia may gradually ramp up its provocations to test these latent divisions within Nato. One long-discussed scenario is the incursion of Russian ground troops into one of the Baltic states — perhaps on the pretext of defending ethnic Russians. The Kremlin's ultimate goal is to demonstrate that Nato's Article Five mutual security guarantee is worthless. If the Russians could do that, then they might try to pick off smaller European states one-by-one — without ever having to take on the combined might of Nato. Uncertainty about Washington's response is the key to Moscow's probing. The US provides about 40 per cent of Nato's military assets in Europe and some of its most advanced capabilities. There are also American troops in the Baltic states. A Himars artillery unit recently conducted training at the Tapa base and a US tank company is expected to arrive soon. But if the Russians ever staged a major incursion into Estonia or another Nato member, there are obvious questions about how Donald Trump would respond. As Gabrielius Landsbergis, a former foreign minister of Lithuania put it to me last week, "If there is an incursion and attack . . . what can Putin expect? The American Sixth Fleet coming into the Baltics or a call to meet in Alaska?"