Derry Club Football & Hurling original

[shamrocker12]

Can we turn it round? Travelling in hope on Saturday more than expectation. Surely that group of players are bound to find some sort of form? How can we be so good for 3 to 4 years to become a team that like they have never played a game with each other before? The scores conceded are frightening considering under gallagher/meenagh there would barely be a yard of space conceded in the scoring zone  never mind teams having the freedom to waltz through us. Hoping mckinless, CD and mcavoy being a bit fitter now can go a long way to helping us defensively but also give us that pace and power to break like we used to. Something has to seriously click, we need a spark from somewhere or someone. Let's hope we find it 🙏

[ck]

Mayo have to have a dip after a big performance V Dubs. Yes they're at home but this is wide open for Derry to get their season back on track.

[Keyser soze]

Against WM we did become a bit more defensively efficient but there were still alarming gaps appearing in defence from time to time against a team who are not that strong up front. I don't think that there has been a major change in tactics from Derry in the last few months but there has been a definite deterioration in attitude and there were a couple of instances which for me encapsulated what the issues are for the team. These might seem like minor issues in isolation but I could provide plenty more examples but I don't want to make a long post 

We are inexorably heading back to the era of the noughties, when holding your man scoreless, or racking up a big personal tally, or getting a MotM award, was more important to some of our players than winning games was, hence our lack of success with what could have been a great team, but egos were allowed to take precedence over team ethos. It was similar issues albeit on a smaller scale that led this current team down through the divisions to Div 4 and it was the eradication of these issues that was instrumental in them climbing back to near the summit of the game.

In the first half Westmeath got through for a goal chance from a simple chip over the top, when Derry had had plenty of time to get set up and had 10+ players around the D, versus 6 WM players.

Not a single one of our defenders was alert to the danger, it was Glass [as usual] and I think Murray who made the effort to get back goalside to provide cover and put the WM player under pressure so that Lynch could make a good save.

During this time one of our defenders stayed touch tight to his man [who was in a completely unthreatening position and surrounded by other Derry players] running away from goal and leaving space in behind, rather than reading the play and defending his goal.

I am certain that the biggest part of our gameplan on saturday was not to concede a goal. To see a player tagging his man whilst leaving our goal wide open encapsulates everything that has gone wrong with this team. To me it looked like he was making sure that 'his man' didn't score even if that left space for WM to get through for a major.

A similar thing happened against Donegal when they broke from a kickout and were running through towards an empty Derry goal and a derry defender was standing with his back to play shadowing a Donegal player, completely ignoring the rest of the play, whilst the ball was kicked into an empty net. Like something you would see in primary school football.

Also for that Westmeath goal chance one of our other players just stopped and downed tools when he saw the pass being made, rather than make the effort to get across to defend the goal.

The second issue I have is that over the recent games we have had quite a few instances of players carrying the ball whilst pointing to other players where to make a run!! WTAF is that self indulgent shite about and why is Mickey not hauling that player ashore immediately. Our attacking has become completely pedestrian and IMO that is primarily because some of our players have let their egos get the better of them with this type of play and are playing as individuals, not as a team.

I do blame Mickey Harte for this current malaise as these types of things would not have been tolerated under Gallagher, there has been a definite slippage in discipline, which has  become incrementally worse over time, and this has inevitably led to some players not putting the team first. The cracks in the foundation have been there and growing for a while and the Donegal game burst that dam and it so very very difficult to rebuild that dam in the raging torrent of championship football.

I am not having a pop at any players, hence not naming anyone, and I am definitely not saying this is deliberate on the part of any player, in fact I am 100% certain the players don't even see this themselves and cannot fathom what has changed over the past couple of months. I am sure every one of them has and is putting in massive effort and would give everything they have for Derry to be successful, but I think it is really obvious looking in from outside what the issues are here.

It is equally obvious that Mickey and Horse have not identified these issues or if they have they have not taken the necessary steps to resolve them, and equally clear that if we don't resolve them before saturday we will be out.

[tbrick18]

With McKinless available and assuming CD and Loughlin are both still out, what should the positioning be?

It will probably be a straight swap for Gilmore, but I wouldn't drop him as I thought he played well last week as did McFaul.
I'd throw a curve ball in - put Mckinless in MF with Glass and drop Rogers into a HB line with McEvoy and Gilmore.
Push McFaul into the HF line and drop one of the mis-firing forwards. Maybe even drop 2/3 forwards and throw in Murphy/Cassidy#2 from the start.
Rogers hasnt been himself in MF recently, maybe a more defensive role for him would help our defence and our attack and let him rebuild his confidence.
McKinless has played in MF under Gallagher.
McFaul can play HB or HF.
And introducing the younger fresher players from the start up front might give us the pace and exuberance we've been missing recently with the bonus of having some first teamers on the bench to come in.
Mulholland was the pick of our forwards last week.
What about this:

Lynch
Clucky McK Baker
Rogers Mcevoy Gilmore
McKinless Glass
ED McFaul D Cassidy
Murphy Shane Mulholland

Gives us some decent forward power on the bench - P Cassidy, Emmett, Murray.
Maybe controversial, but our forwards have been dire - to the point where Shane could be dropped on form.

[shamrocker12]

With McKinless available and assuming CD and Loughlin are both still out, what should the positioning be?

It will probably be a straight swap for Gilmore, but I wouldn't drop him as I thought he played well last week as did McFaul.
I'd throw a curve ball in - put Mckinless in MF with Glass and drop Rogers into a HB line with McEvoy and Gilmore.
Push McFaul into the HF line and drop one of the mis-firing forwards. Maybe even drop 2/3 forwards and throw in Murphy/Cassidy#2 from the start.
Rogers hasnt been himself in MF recently, maybe a more defensive role for him would help our defence and our attack and let him rebuild his confidence.
McKinless has played in MF under Gallagher.
McFaul can play HB or HF.
And introducing the younger fresher players from the start up front might give us the pace and exuberance we've been missing recently with the bonus of having some first teamers on the bench to come in.
Mulholland was the pick of our forwards last week.
What about this:

Lynch
Clucky McK Baker
Rogers Mcevoy Gilmore
McKinless Glass
ED McFaul D Cassidy
Murphy Shane Mulholland

Gives us some decent forward power on the bench - P Cassidy, Emmett, Murray.
Maybe controversial, but our forwards have been dire - to the point where Shane could be dropped on form.

With McKinless available and assuming CD and Loughlin are both still out, what should the positioning be?

It will probably be a straight swap for Gilmore, but I wouldn't drop him as I thought he played well last week as did McFaul.
I'd throw a curve ball in - put Mckinless in MF with Glass and drop Rogers into a HB line with McEvoy and Gilmore.
Push McFaul into the HF line and drop one of the mis-firing forwards. Maybe even drop 2/3 forwards and throw in Murphy/Cassidy#2 from the start.
Rogers hasnt been himself in MF recently, maybe a more defensive role for him would help our defence and our attack and let him rebuild his confidence.
McKinless has played in MF under Gallagher.
McFaul can play HB or HF.
And introducing the younger fresher players from the start up front might give us the pace and exuberance we've been missing recently with the bonus of having some first teamers on the bench to come in.
Mulholland was the pick of our forwards last week.
What about this:

Lynch
Clucky McK Baker
Rogers Mcevoy Gilmore
McKinless Glass
ED McFaul D Cassidy
Murphy Shane Mulholland

Gives us some decent forward power on the bench - P Cassidy, Emmett, Murray.
Maybe controversial, but our forwards have been dire - to the point where Shane could be dropped on form.

Fair play TBrick,  I wad thinking similar to this myself. Remember harte would throw the odd curveball with naming an extra defensive player in the forward line before and you are totally right about rogers form not quite being where it was but in fairness to him he definitely has that steely character to hopefully get back to where he was. I just see Saturday as the perfect chance to relight that spark. I agree with possibly playing mckinless at midfield. He played ther numerous times under gallagher and done extremely well but at same time I prefer him at 6 as I feel he's excellent at playing that sweeper role. I'd go for something like this.
      Lynch
Clucky mck Baker
Rogers gareth gilmore
   Mcavoy glass
Ethan mcfaul paul
 Eunan Shane murray

[marty34]

With McKinless available and assuming CD and Loughlin are both still out, what should the positioning be?

It will probably be a straight swap for Gilmore, but I wouldn't drop him as I thought he played well last week as did McFaul.
I'd throw a curve ball in - put Mckinless in MF with Glass and drop Rogers into a HB line with McEvoy and Gilmore.
Push McFaul into the HF line and drop one of the mis-firing forwards. Maybe even drop 2/3 forwards and throw in Murphy/Cassidy#2 from the start.
Rogers hasnt been himself in MF recently, maybe a more defensive role for him would help our defence and our attack and let him rebuild his confidence.
McKinless has played in MF under Gallagher.
McFaul can play HB or HF.
And introducing the younger fresher players from the start up front might give us the pace and exuberance we've been missing recently with the bonus of having some first teamers on the bench to come in.
Mulholland was the pick of our forwards last week.
What about this:

Lynch
Clucky McK Baker
Rogers Mcevoy Gilmore
McKinless Glass
ED McFaul D Cassidy
Murphy Shane Mulholland

Gives us some decent forward power on the bench - P Cassidy, Emmett, Murray.
Maybe controversial, but our forwards have been dire - to the point where Shane could be dropped on form.

With McKinless available and assuming CD and Loughlin are both still out, what should the positioning be?

It will probably be a straight swap for Gilmore, but I wouldn't drop him as I thought he played well last week as did McFaul.
I'd throw a curve ball in - put Mckinless in MF with Glass and drop Rogers into a HB line with McEvoy and Gilmore.
Push McFaul into the HF line and drop one of the mis-firing forwards. Maybe even drop 2/3 forwards and throw in Murphy/Cassidy#2 from the start.
Rogers hasnt been himself in MF recently, maybe a more defensive role for him would help our defence and our attack and let him rebuild his confidence.
McKinless has played in MF under Gallagher.
McFaul can play HB or HF.
And introducing the younger fresher players from the start up front might give us the pace and exuberance we've been missing recently with the bonus of having some first teamers on the bench to come in.
Mulholland was the pick of our forwards last week.
What about this:

Lynch
Clucky McK Baker
Rogers Mcevoy Gilmore
McKinless Glass
ED McFaul D Cassidy
Murphy Shane Mulholland

Gives us some decent forward power on the bench - P Cassidy, Emmett, Murray.
Maybe controversial, but our forwards have been dire - to the point where Shane could be dropped on form.

Fair play TBrick,  I wad thinking similar to this myself. Remember harte would throw the odd curveball with naming an extra defensive player in the forward line before and you are totally right about rogers form not quite being where it was but in fairness to him he definitely has that steely character to hopefully get back to where he was. I just see Saturday as the perfect chance to relight that spark. I agree with possibly playing mckinless at midfield. He played ther numerous times under gallagher and done extremely well but at same time I prefer him at 6 as I feel he's excellent at playing that sweeper role. I'd go for something like this.
      Lynch
Clucky mck Baker
Rogers gareth gilmore
   Mcavoy glass
Ethan mcfaul paul
 Eunan Shane murray

I'm not sure why you're saying this lad should play here and that lad should play there.

Players are all over the pitch now, they play everywhere. If you look at their GPS's, they're all over the pitch.

The only time they're in their 'proper' positions in at the start of the game and at the start of the second half. 

[screenexile]

I'd heard CD would be available this weekend... has anyone heard anything else?

I think McFaul moves up to HF and Cassidy drops out?

[tbrick18]

With McKinless available and assuming CD and Loughlin are both still out, what should the positioning be?

It will probably be a straight swap for Gilmore, but I wouldn't drop him as I thought he played well last week as did McFaul.
I'd throw a curve ball in - put Mckinless in MF with Glass and drop Rogers into a HB line with McEvoy and Gilmore.
Push McFaul into the HF line and drop one of the mis-firing forwards. Maybe even drop 2/3 forwards and throw in Murphy/Cassidy#2 from the start.
Rogers hasnt been himself in MF recently, maybe a more defensive role for him would help our defence and our attack and let him rebuild his confidence.
McKinless has played in MF under Gallagher.
McFaul can play HB or HF.
And introducing the younger fresher players from the start up front might give us the pace and exuberance we've been missing recently with the bonus of having some first teamers on the bench to come in.
Mulholland was the pick of our forwards last week.
What about this:

Lynch
Clucky McK Baker
Rogers Mcevoy Gilmore
McKinless Glass
ED McFaul D Cassidy
Murphy Shane Mulholland

Gives us some decent forward power on the bench - P Cassidy, Emmett, Murray.
Maybe controversial, but our forwards have been dire - to the point where Shane could be dropped on form.

With McKinless available and assuming CD and Loughlin are both still out, what should the positioning be?

It will probably be a straight swap for Gilmore, but I wouldn't drop him as I thought he played well last week as did McFaul.
I'd throw a curve ball in - put Mckinless in MF with Glass and drop Rogers into a HB line with McEvoy and Gilmore.
Push McFaul into the HF line and drop one of the mis-firing forwards. Maybe even drop 2/3 forwards and throw in Murphy/Cassidy#2 from the start.
Rogers hasnt been himself in MF recently, maybe a more defensive role for him would help our defence and our attack and let him rebuild his confidence.
McKinless has played in MF under Gallagher.
McFaul can play HB or HF.
And introducing the younger fresher players from the start up front might give us the pace and exuberance we've been missing recently with the bonus of having some first teamers on the bench to come in.
Mulholland was the pick of our forwards last week.
What about this:

Lynch
Clucky McK Baker
Rogers Mcevoy Gilmore
McKinless Glass
ED McFaul D Cassidy
Murphy Shane Mulholland

Gives us some decent forward power on the bench - P Cassidy, Emmett, Murray.
Maybe controversial, but our forwards have been dire - to the point where Shane could be dropped on form.

Fair play TBrick,  I wad thinking similar to this myself. Remember harte would throw the odd curveball with naming an extra defensive player in the forward line before and you are totally right about rogers form not quite being where it was but in fairness to him he definitely has that steely character to hopefully get back to where he was. I just see Saturday as the perfect chance to relight that spark. I agree with possibly playing mckinless at midfield. He played ther numerous times under gallagher and done extremely well but at same time I prefer him at 6 as I feel he's excellent at playing that sweeper role. I'd go for something like this.
      Lynch
Clucky mck Baker
Rogers gareth gilmore
  Mcavoy glass
Ethan mcfaul paul
 Eunan Shane murray

I'm not sure why you're saying this lad should play here and that lad should play there.

Players are all over the pitch now, they play everywhere. If you look at their GPS's, they're all over the pitch.

The only time they're in their 'proper' positions in at the start of the game and at the start of the second half. 

You're right to an extent.
Our entire forward division have not been chipping in with scores or dropping back to defend as they should, hence my suggestion we drop a few and start some of the less well established players that have pace.
Our HB line has been the platform for many of our goals over the last couple of years (regardless of where they roam), attacking from deep, full of energy and defending like demons. With our defensive frailties and lack of attacking threat recently, at least partially down to injuries, I think its important to strengthen that line.
With getting cleaned out in MF in the last few games, I think we need a change in that area too - thats why I'm suggesting McKinless - he can attack and compete in the air. I just think we need to change something to re-invigorate players, and a positional change might focus them.

All just suggestions and no science or expertise behind it other than reacting to what I see with my own eyes.

God knows what Harte will do. Maybe nothing.

[tbrick18]

I'd heard CD would be available this weekend... has anyone heard anything else?

I think McFaul moves up to HF and Cassidy drops out?

I've not heard anything, just assuming he's out as there's been not word that he's in
If he is in, we could potentially have a HB line of McKinless, McEvoy and CD - looks strong if CD is fully fit and hopefully the game last week has brought McEvoy on a bit.
Gilmore would be unlucky to lose his place.
Agree with McFaul going to HF for Cassidy.
Could Gilmore be named in the forward line too and drop into defence?

[Wildweasel74]

Play McKinless in the Forwards and he can act as Sweeper.Keep Gilmore there.

[tbrick18]

Play McKinless in the Forwards and he can act as Sweeper.Keep Gilmore there.

Sometimes the simple obvious option is the best.

[statto]

I'd heard CD would be available this weekend... has anyone heard anything else?

I think McFaul moves up to HF and Cassidy drops out?

I've not heard anything, just assuming he's out as there's been not word that he's in
If he is in, we could potentially have a HB line of McKinless, McEvoy and CD - looks strong if CD is fully fit and hopefully the game last week has brought McEvoy on a bit.
Gilmore would be unlucky to lose his place.
Agree with McFaul going to HF for Cassidy.
Could Gilmore be named in the forward line too and drop into defence?

It's a big ask asking players to come back from injury and straight up to knockout championship pace.McEvoy will have got the benefit of last week's games and the team generally to get back to winning ways.Dont know if throwing Conor Doherty in from off is the way to go for Derry they could name a decent half back line of mckinless mcevoy and Gilmore as it is.

[tbrick18]

Ref in this minor game is woeful

[quit yo jibbajabba]

Honnn Derry

Ref wasn't doing us many favours but couple calls at the end went our way

Great stuff. Beat Dublin and Kerry no mean feat. Hope to finish the job. Sargent some operator

[screenexile]

Enjoy that lads days like this have been few and far between for the last 20 years! Lessons learned by players and management fair play to them!