Tyrone V Monaghan AIQF 2015

[straightred]

Wasn't a black card for Hughes, if Hughes had continued and made contact with Meyler, yes he would have got the card. But he didn't and may not have. Meyler checked his run and went into Hughes, rather than Hughes going into him. Who is to say what would have happened if Meyler had continued in a forward direction.

Anyone who attended one of the rules roadshow when the blackcard would have had this explained to them and they used an example very similar to this where the forward moving player changes direction to make the contact and he is deemed to receive the card rather than the defender.

It may have happened differently in a parallel universe but refs have to call what they see and that is what happened. (And that is by no means giving Duffy credit, as he deserves very little)

Meyler may have slightly changed direction, in order to ready himself for the contact. But Hughes was running straight at him.....with his arms in the air!!! The only person making the deliberate move was Hughes. His laughter afterwards suggested that he knew exactly what he was doing. Hughes was running in the opposite direction to the play with his eyes fixed on Meyler, Meyler was still moving in an attempt to get back involved in the play and follow the ball. I genuinely can't see how how this card was warranted and the very discussion around it shows how much of a balls the whole black card is.

You're persistent with your rubbish - I'll give you that. meyler cynically tried to get Hughes a black card and it (rightly) backfired badly. About the only decision Duffy got right all day. Meyler will think twice before he tries that stunt again.

[Il Bomber Destro]

Sorry I've just started reading this and don't have time to look at 49 pages. This was probably posted somewhere but just in case it wasn't, here's Aidan O'Mahony in 2008:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHuU3EdJ1NQ

Not justifying either dive. Both disgusting and the opposite of what the game should be about. But I just don't remember the same outcry over O'Mahony. Is my memory malfunctioning, or is a Tyrone fringe player a softer target than a Kerry all-star?

Were Kerry dragged through the mud due to an action of one of their players? Was it claimed that it was systematic in that county and exemplary of how they behave?

Was it f**k and there's a litany of historic events that shows Kerry have absolutely no qualms about engaging in the dark arts when they want to, the media just decide to ignore this and add no attachement to it.
Someone already linked to the massive thread on it at the time when a Tyrone poster tried to peddle the same line you are yesterday.

The big difference is that every Kerry person I heard/read commenting on O'Mahoney condemned him and said they were ashamed of his actions. Every tyrone person justifies mccanns actions by saying we're not the only teamwho dive. Other counties have shame, tyrone don't seem to do shame no matter how low their players stoop. Mccann is only copying the actions of players he looked up a few years ago when he was a teenager. Tyrone people  who say there is an agenda against them should ask themselves why this is. From a personal point of view I always used to like tyrone. i had total respect for Eugene mckenna and Art mcrory and supported them in 86, 95 and 96. When harte took over tyrone turned into the most hateful team in the country with all players seemingly coached in the dark arts. If you look at the posters who contribute on here it seems that evey time tyrone play a new county they leave a mark and that becomes a new group of people who hate tyrone. Personally I don't hate them but I hate the way they play football under Harte.

Bullshit. For a start McCann was wrong and I haven't see anyone Tyrone man here make allowances for his actions. The point being made is that when a Kerry player does it, then the view is it not a problem with Kerry football. When a Tyrone  players has done similar it is because Tyrone are vile scum and endemic of a culture that exists in the county.

That view is blatant bullshit and highlights the premeditated viewpoints with regards any shady incidents that happens with Northern counties and Southern ones.

Well watched this discussed incident again a few times there

Despite the outrage of the supposed dive I'm still fairly convinced that McCann was pulled down by the hair, he also had his legs swept from under him on his way down.

You sure about that!

That's one and I suggest he go back and look at the incident again.

[BennyHarp]

Wasn't a black card for Hughes, if Hughes had continued and made contact with Meyler, yes he would have got the card. But he didn't and may not have. Meyler checked his run and went into Hughes, rather than Hughes going into him. Who is to say what would have happened if Meyler had continued in a forward direction.

Anyone who attended one of the rules roadshow when the blackcard would have had this explained to them and they used an example very similar to this where the forward moving player changes direction to make the contact and he is deemed to receive the card rather than the defender.

It may have happened differently in a parallel universe but refs have to call what they see and that is what happened. (And that is by no means giving Duffy credit, as he deserves very little)

Meyler may have slightly changed direction, in order to ready himself for the contact. But Hughes was running straight at him.....with his arms in the air!!! The only person making the deliberate move was Hughes. His laughter afterwards suggested that he knew exactly what he was doing. Hughes was running in the opposite direction to the play with his eyes fixed on Meyler, Meyler was still moving in an attempt to get back involved in the play and follow the ball. I genuinely can't see how how this card was warranted and the very discussion around it shows how much of a balls the whole black card is.

You're persistent with your rubbish - I'll give you that. meyler cynically tried to get Hughes a black card and it (rightly) backfired badly. About the only decision Duffy got right all day. Meyler will think twice before he tries that stunt again.

What was Hughes' intention then when he was running towards Meyler, with his hands in the air, away from the direction of the play? You are a fairly aggressive little fella in your posts, I'm sure you have played the game before, what's your reaction when someone runs at you with their hands up. Baring in mind, a split second before, Meyler had possession and was moving play on, moving forward himself to get back onto the ball, thats his game, Hughes knew that and made a move to stop him. His reaction afterwards showed the intent.

[blewuporstuffed]

Wasn't a black card for Hughes, if Hughes had continued and made contact with Meyler, yes he would have got the card. But he didn't and may not have. Meyler checked his run and went into Hughes, rather than Hughes going into him. Who is to say what would have happened if Meyler had continued in a forward direction.

Anyone who attended one of the rules roadshow when the blackcard would have had this explained to them and they used an example very similar to this where the forward moving player changes direction to make the contact and he is deemed to receive the card rather than the defender.

It may have happened differently in a parallel universe but refs have to call what they see and that is what happened. (And that is by no means giving Duffy credit, as he deserves very little)

Meyler may have slightly changed direction, in order to ready himself for the contact. But Hughes was running straight at him.....with his arms in the air!!! The only person making the deliberate move was Hughes. His laughter afterwards suggested that he knew exactly what he was doing. Hughes was running in the opposite direction to the play with his eyes fixed on Meyler, Meyler was still moving in an attempt to get back involved in the play and follow the ball. I genuinely can't see how how this card was warranted and the very discussion around it shows how much of a balls the whole black card is.

100% agree Benny.
Kieran Hughes sole intention was to block Mylers run.

[straightred]

Wasn't a black card for Hughes, if Hughes had continued and made contact with Meyler, yes he would have got the card. But he didn't and may not have. Meyler checked his run and went into Hughes, rather than Hughes going into him. Who is to say what would have happened if Meyler had continued in a forward direction.

Anyone who attended one of the rules roadshow when the blackcard would have had this explained to them and they used an example very similar to this where the forward moving player changes direction to make the contact and he is deemed to receive the card rather than the defender.

It may have happened differently in a parallel universe but refs have to call what they see and that is what happened. (And that is by no means giving Duffy credit, as he deserves very little)

Meyler may have slightly changed direction, in order to ready himself for the contact. But Hughes was running straight at him.....with his arms in the air!!! The only person making the deliberate move was Hughes. His laughter afterwards suggested that he knew exactly what he was doing. Hughes was running in the opposite direction to the play with his eyes fixed on Meyler, Meyler was still moving in an attempt to get back involved in the play and follow the ball. I genuinely can't see how how this card was warranted and the very discussion around it shows how much of a balls the whole black card is.

You're persistent with your rubbish - I'll give you that. meyler cynically tried to get Hughes a black card and it (rightly) backfired badly. About the only decision Duffy got right all day. Meyler will think twice before he tries that stunt again.

What was Hughes' intention then when he was running towards Meyler, with his hands in the air, away from the direction of the play? You are a fairly aggressive little fella in your posts, I'm sure you have played the game before, what's your reaction when someone runs at you with their hands up. Baring in mind, a split second before, Meyler had possession and was moving play on, moving forward himself to get back onto the ball, thats his game, Hughes knew that and made a move to stop him. His reaction afterwards showed the intent.

that's some computer you have - you're able to see I played the game, am aggressive and little. Wouldn't mind one of those myself.

You have sought and continue to seek to justify everything that happened. You describe what you'd like to have happened as opposed to what did happen.  In my eyes Meyler saw a chance for a cheap shot and tyrone players don't pass those chances up. He changed direction , jumped and dragged Hughes down with his left arm. He got caught out and that's what pisses you off. 99 times out of 100 these aren't spotted or they are ignored but this one wasn't.

[Bingo]

Wasn't a black card for Hughes, if Hughes had continued and made contact with Meyler, yes he would have got the card. But he didn't and may not have. Meyler checked his run and went into Hughes, rather than Hughes going into him. Who is to say what would have happened if Meyler had continued in a forward direction.

Anyone who attended one of the rules roadshow when the blackcard would have had this explained to them and they used an example very similar to this where the forward moving player changes direction to make the contact and he is deemed to receive the card rather than the defender.

It may have happened differently in a parallel universe but refs have to call what they see and that is what happened. (And that is by no means giving Duffy credit, as he deserves very little)

Meyler may have slightly changed direction, in order to ready himself for the contact. But Hughes was running straight at him.....with his arms in the air!!! The only person making the deliberate move was Hughes. His laughter afterwards suggested that he knew exactly what he was doing. Hughes was running in the opposite direction to the play with his eyes fixed on Meyler, Meyler was still moving in an attempt to get back involved in the play and follow the ball. I genuinely can't see how how this card was warranted and the very discussion around it shows how much of a balls the whole black card is.

Hughes was after jumping in air with arms waving (one of the most pointless defending exercises in GAA with, I reckon, a 1% success rate at U12 level) in an attempt to block Meylers pass. His momentum was carrying him towards Meyler and where the ball had come from. He would have been best served staying on his toes readying to track Meylers run. He didn't and was moving towards Meyler from his pointless effort to cut out a pass. But Meyler moved.

The whole rule on this is about change of direction to block a runner. You can stand your ground and if an attacker runs into you, no card for either party. You move to make that block, black card. Meyler moved, no matter how slight but its a clear change, so he was gone.

Its a basic understanding of the rules.

[BennyHarp]

Wasn't a black card for Hughes, if Hughes had continued and made contact with Meyler, yes he would have got the card. But he didn't and may not have. Meyler checked his run and went into Hughes, rather than Hughes going into him. Who is to say what would have happened if Meyler had continued in a forward direction.

Anyone who attended one of the rules roadshow when the blackcard would have had this explained to them and they used an example very similar to this where the forward moving player changes direction to make the contact and he is deemed to receive the card rather than the defender.

It may have happened differently in a parallel universe but refs have to call what they see and that is what happened. (And that is by no means giving Duffy credit, as he deserves very little)

Meyler may have slightly changed direction, in order to ready himself for the contact. But Hughes was running straight at him.....with his arms in the air!!! The only person making the deliberate move was Hughes. His laughter afterwards suggested that he knew exactly what he was doing. Hughes was running in the opposite direction to the play with his eyes fixed on Meyler, Meyler was still moving in an attempt to get back involved in the play and follow the ball. I genuinely can't see how how this card was warranted and the very discussion around it shows how much of a balls the whole black card is.

You're persistent with your rubbish - I'll give you that. meyler cynically tried to get Hughes a black card and it (rightly) backfired badly. About the only decision Duffy got right all day. Meyler will think twice before he tries that stunt again.

What was Hughes' intention then when he was running towards Meyler, with his hands in the air, away from the direction of the play? You are a fairly aggressive little fella in your posts, I'm sure you have played the game before, what's your reaction when someone runs at you with their hands up. Baring in mind, a split second before, Meyler had possession and was moving play on, moving forward himself to get back onto the ball, thats his game, Hughes knew that and made a move to stop him. His reaction afterwards showed the intent.

that's some computer you have - you're able to see I played the game, am aggressive and little. Wouldn't mind one of those myself.

You have sought and continue to seek to justify everything that happened. You describe what you'd like to have happened as opposed to what did happen.  In my eyes Meyler saw a chance for a cheap shot and tyrone players don't pass those chances up. He changed direction , jumped and dragged Hughes down with his left arm. He got caught out and that's what pisses you off. 99 times out of 100 these aren't spotted or they are ignored but this one wasn't.

My apologies for suggesting you played the game!

[Soup an Samajiz]

Wasn't a black card for Hughes, if Hughes had continued and made contact with Meyler, yes he would have got the card. But he didn't and may not have. Meyler checked his run and went into Hughes, rather than Hughes going into him. Who is to say what would have happened if Meyler had continued in a forward direction.

Anyone who attended one of the rules roadshow when the blackcard would have had this explained to them and they used an example very similar to this where the forward moving player changes direction to make the contact and he is deemed to receive the card rather than the defender.

It may have happened differently in a parallel universe but refs have to call what they see and that is what happened. (And that is by no means giving Duffy credit, as he deserves very little)

Meyler may have slightly changed direction, in order to ready himself for the contact. But Hughes was running straight at him.....with his arms in the air!!! The only person making the deliberate move was Hughes. His laughter afterwards suggested that he knew exactly what he was doing. Hughes was running in the opposite direction to the play with his eyes fixed on Meyler, Meyler was still moving in an attempt to get back involved in the play and follow the ball. I genuinely can't see how how this card was warranted and the very discussion around it shows how much of a balls the whole black card is.

100% agree Benny.
Kieran Hughes sole intention was to block Mylers run.

Yeah he did mean to hinder his run but I don't think in real time - without 40 different slow-mo's - that if Myler hadn't have stepped into it, Hughes would have warrented a black, he was culpable to an extent but Myler tried to buy it and ye have to say the ref got it right. Good call.

Ref tho overall I thought was poor, not that he was biased really but the over-pernikity with kick outs and slowing all down didn't help the game.

Definitely enjoyed the game tho as a spectacle, had everything. Few superb scores from McManus and well worked ones from Harte and Donnelly, good intensity, plenty talking points... Well worth the trip

[LeoMc]

Wasn't a black card for Hughes, if Hughes had continued and made contact with Meyler, yes he would have got the card. But he didn't and may not have. Meyler checked his run and went into Hughes, rather than Hughes going into him. Who is to say what would have happened if Meyler had continued in a forward direction.

Anyone who attended one of the rules roadshow when the blackcard would have had this explained to them and they used an example very similar to this where the forward moving player changes direction to make the contact and he is deemed to receive the card rather than the defender.

It may have happened differently in a parallel universe but refs have to call what they see and that is what happened. (And that is by no means giving Duffy credit, as he deserves very little)

Meyler may have slightly changed direction, in order to ready himself for the contact. But Hughes was running straight at him.....with his arms in the air!!! The only person making the deliberate move was Hughes. His laughter afterwards suggested that he knew exactly what he was doing. Hughes was running in the opposite direction to the play with his eyes fixed on Meyler, Meyler was still moving in an attempt to get back involved in the play and follow the ball. I genuinely can't see how how this card was warranted and the very discussion around it shows how much of a balls the whole black card is.

100% agree Benny.
Kieran Hughes sole intention was to block Mylers run.

That is may be true, but Meyler changed direction to made sure that he would be blocked.

[AZOffaly]

OK Lads, I didn't even see the game this weekend, although I saw the stuff last night on TSG, so I'm not going to bother my hole pontificating about that messy stuff other than to say I don't believe Tyrone need to be at it. Nor does any other team, and Tyrone are not the only team. Because they are high profile now, everything is going to be highlighted but don't be codding ourselves that Tyrone are the only ones who dive, or slabber, or will play cynically if necessary to close out a game.

Anyway, my question is for the Tyrone lads, and is related to Mickey Harte. I've been a huge admirer of Harte for a long time, and I've defended him on here quite a few times. This year I did think he looked like a man running out of road, but I'm wondering how his stock is seen in Tyrone now after yet another run to an All Ireland QF/SF. If they beat Kerry, and I wouldn't be shocked at all, surely Mickey will be allowed stay if he feels like it. If they win another All Ireland they should just give him the job until he decides he's sick of it. But if they lose to Kerry, what will the thoughts be? I think he's shown another reinvention, this feels a bit like a second coming for Tyrone, a bit of youth and a lot of intensity and focus.

So, if they lose to Kerry, with all they've done this year since the Donegal game, should Mickey stay or go?

[Soup an Samajiz]

OK Lads, I didn't even see the game this weekend, although I saw the stuff last night on TSG, so I'm not going to bother my hole pontificating about that messy stuff other than to say I don't believe Tyrone need to be at it. Nor does any other team, and Tyrone are not the only team. Because they are high profile now, everything is going to be highlighted but don't be codding ourselves that Tyrone are the only ones who dive, or slabber, or will play cynically if necessary to close out a game.

Anyway, my question is for the Tyrone lads, and is related to Mickey Harte. I've been a huge admirer of Harte for a long time, and I've defended him on here quite a few times. This year I did think he looked like a man running out of road, but I'm wondering how his stock is seen in Tyrone now after yet another run to an All Ireland QF/SF. If they beat Kerry, and I wouldn't be shocked at all, surely Mickey will be allowed stay if he feels like it. If they win another All Ireland they should just give him the job until he decides he's sick of it. But if they lose to Kerry, what will the thoughts be? I think he's shown another reinvention, this feels a bit like a second coming for Tyrone, a bit of youth and a lot of intensity and focus.

So, if they lose to Kerry, with all they've done this year since the Donegal game, should Mickey stay or go?

Micks safe

[ONeill]

There's no way Duffy could've known for sure what the intentions were of either player. An arrogant call. Having watched it a few times I don't know.

[AZOffaly]

There's no way Duffy could've known for sure what the intentions were of either player. An arrogant call. Having watched it a few times I don't know.

I saw this incident too, and I can't agree it was a black card. I certainly don't think the Monaghan lad initiated the contact, even if he was thinking about it, the contact seemed to be initiated by Meyler. He seemed to change direction to make sure the Monaghan lad and himself collided.

But the worst that could be would be a 'dive' which is unfortunately NOT a black card offence. It was a strange interpretation to say Meyler dragged down the opponent. As the rules currently are, I think the most that could have been was a free to Monaghan. At a stretch a black card for the body check, even though it was the attacking team doing the body check, which is certainly not in the spirit of the rule. But Duffy clearly indicated a pull down, which I thought was weird.

[Bingo]

There's no way Duffy could've known for sure what the intentions were of either player. An arrogant call. Having watched it a few times I don't know.

In fairness if any ref was trying to ref the game based on what they thought was the intentions of a player we'd be in trouble! They can only ref what they see. In my eyes he got it right, plenty of other times he got it wrong including a big call on Finlay leaving the pitch before he did.

It was far from a game changer and we have seen more black cards not given than given in the championship, including a few against Monaghan in Ulster.

[westbound]

I've just seen this incident for the first time.

Marty Duffy clearly indicates that the black card is for a pull down.

He obviously thought it was a deliberate pull down by the tyrone man and therefore a black card.

In my opinion, it seems to me that hughes went towards meyler to 'slow down' his run (every team is doing this now to stop the runs and to avoid the black) I.e. make him run around him. It then seems to me that meyler decided to run towards hughes to initiate contact (I'm guessing that his intention was to make it look like a deliberate body collision by hughes and therefore a black card for hughes). He then also put his arms around hughes, which makes it look like he deliberately pulled down hughes. I think meyler was trying to be clever and get hughes black carded but it backfired big time!

I'm guessing that if meyler didn't put his arms around hughes the ref would have waved play on and no action would have been taken.

Anyway, don't shoot me, I'm only giving my opinion!

But the ref definitely black carded him for a deliberate pull down, not a deliberate body collision.