The same-sex marriage referendum debate

[J70]

You believe that those in the yes campaign are opposed to men and women marrying and raising children? What is your evidence for this.

I believe that they are opposed to the support of society for children being raised by their own parents, otherwise there wouldn't have this campaign at all.

You "believe"?

Based on what?

You don't think its even remotely possible that gay people simply want for their relationships the same respect and legitimacy straight people receive?

Of course  I think that gay people want the same as married people, that's the whole  point,!. They want the benefits for themselves without providing the benefits to society.

What benefits are they NOT providing that straight married couples do? What benefits are they attempting to receive that you object to?

[LCohen]

You believe that those in the yes campaign are opposed to men and women marrying and raising children? What is your evidence for this.

I believe that they are opposed to the support of society for children being raised by their own parents, otherwise there wouldn't have this campaign at all.

You "believe"?

Based on what?

You don't think its even remotely possible that gay people simply want for their relationships the same respect and legitimacy straight people receive?

Of course  I think that gay people want the same as married people, that's the whole  point,!. They want the benefits for themselves without providing the benefits to society.

I use the word unhinged because the debate is about marriage. It has nothing to do with children

Anyone who believes that it is unhinged to point out the association of marriage with families is either profoundly ignorant or is living in some make believe world of their own construction.

The is an association between the convention of marriage and wedding ceremonies, best man speeches, honeymoons, name changes etc etc etc. Pointing out any of that is not unhinged but what has allowing gay couples to have a legally recognised union and that union being called marriage got to do with children?

Inventing that connection and using it as a basis for denying equality is i'm afraid unhinged

[Main Street]

The object of this exercise is not to achieve something, but is destructive, the object being the removal of marriage as a useful concept.

Ridiculous hyperbole much?

Gay marriage has been legal in parts of the US for more than a decade. What negative effects is that having on "marriage as a useful concept"?

As Gandhi said about the French Revolution, it is too early to say. Marriage has existed for thousands of years and you expect the effect of a change to be evident in 10, you are not serious.

Marriage has certain fiscal advantages which society provides to encourage men and women to get together and raise their children together. This is an attempt by people opposed to that concept to freeload on established arrangements. THe proposition here is  we we're a same sex couple, we're going to set up house together, would the rest of your please chip in to pay for this. This proposition would be rejected as there is no public policy reason for this. But by freeloading on established arrangements people want to achieve this by the back door.

You are just inventing things now.

You believe that those in the yes campaign are opposed to men and women marrying and raising children? What is your evidence for this.

Personally I think you are dangerously unhinged.

The invention here, is that Gandhi (one of life's great hypocrites) is not credited with saying any such thing.

[Maguire01]

You'll not be surprised to learn I'm in the No camp.For moral and religious reasons I object to these practices being equated to the status of normal male female relationships as defined by scripture.

[LCohen]

You'll not be surprised to learn I'm in the No camp.For moral and religious reasons I object to these practices being equated to the status of normal male female relationships as defined by scripture.

Well bugger me with a prize winning leek but has there ever been a better post?

[LCohen]

matrimony, n.
Pronunciation:  Brit. /ˈmatrᵻməni/ , U.S. /ˈmætrəˌmoʊni/
Forms:  ME matermone, ME matermoyn, ME matermoyne, ME matirmonye, ME matirmoyne... (Show More)
Etymology:  < Anglo-Norman matermoine, matremoine, matrimoigne, matrimone, matrimonie and Middle French matremoine, matrimoigne (14th cent.; c1155 in Old French in sense 'property inherited from one's mother': compare 1a) < classical Latin mātrimōnium state of being married < mātri- , māter mother

Are you going to base a vote on equality on that?

[armaghniac]

matrimony, n.
Pronunciation:  Brit. /ˈmatrᵻməni/ , U.S. /ˈmætrəˌmoʊni/
Forms:  ME matermone, ME matermoyn, ME matermoyne, ME matirmonye, ME matirmoyne... (Show More)
Etymology:  < Anglo-Norman matermoine, matremoine, matrimoigne, matrimone, matrimonie and Middle French matremoine, matrimoigne (14th cent.; c1155 in Old French in sense 'property inherited from one's mother': compare 1a) < classical Latin mātrimōnium state of being married < mātri- , māter mother

Are you going to base a vote on equality on that?

I appreciate that using the actual meaning of the English language is an obstacle to those who seek to misuse language. Tough.

[Maguire01]

matrimony, n.
Pronunciation:  Brit. /ˈmatrᵻməni/ , U.S. /ˈmætrəˌmoʊni/
Forms:  ME matermone, ME matermoyn, ME matermoyne, ME matirmonye, ME matirmoyne... (Show More)
Etymology:  < Anglo-Norman matermoine, matremoine, matrimoigne, matrimone, matrimonie and Middle French matremoine, matrimoigne (14th cent.; c1155 in Old French in sense 'property inherited from one's mother': compare 1a) < classical Latin mātrimōnium state of being married < mātri- , māter mother

What does the origin of a word nearly 1000 years ago have to do with this particular debate?

And if that's how you want to define marriage, should it be off limits for women or men who may be infertile, or women who want to get married in their 50s, 60s etc.?

[LCohen]

matrimony, n.
Pronunciation:  Brit. /ˈmatrᵻməni/ , U.S. /ˈmætrəˌmoʊni/
Forms:  ME matermone, ME matermoyn, ME matermoyne, ME matirmonye, ME matirmoyne... (Show More)
Etymology:  < Anglo-Norman matermoine, matremoine, matrimoigne, matrimone, matrimonie and Middle French matremoine, matrimoigne (14th cent.; c1155 in Old French in sense 'property inherited from one's mother': compare 1a) < classical Latin mātrimōnium state of being married < mātri- , māter mother

Are you going to base a vote on equality on that?

I appreciate that using the actual meaning of the English language is an obstacle to those who seek to misuse language. Tough.

You are confusing "meaning" with "etymology". Which is funny as it seems to be the basis of your argument

[J70]

matrimony, n.
Pronunciation:  Brit. /ˈmatrᵻməni/ , U.S. /ˈmætrəˌmoʊni/
Forms:  ME matermone, ME matermoyn, ME matermoyne, ME matirmonye, ME matirmoyne... (Show More)
Etymology:  < Anglo-Norman matermoine, matremoine, matrimoigne, matrimone, matrimonie and Middle French matremoine, matrimoigne (14th cent.; c1155 in Old French in sense 'property inherited from one's mother': compare 1a) < classical Latin mātrimōnium state of being married < mātri- , māter mother

Are you going to base a vote on equality on that?

I appreciate that using the actual meaning of the English language is an obstacle to those who seek to misuse language. Tough.

Because the meaning of words doesn't ever evolve, after all... 

[LCohen]

Armaghniac
Presumably you would consider the Republic of Ireland as a third world country?

[J70]

matrimony, n.
Pronunciation:  Brit. /ˈmatrᵻməni/ , U.S. /ˈmætrəˌmoʊni/
Forms:  ME matermone, ME matermoyn, ME matermoyne, ME matirmonye, ME matirmoyne... (Show More)
Etymology:  < Anglo-Norman matermoine, matremoine, matrimoigne, matrimone, matrimonie and Middle French matremoine, matrimoigne (14th cent.; c1155 in Old French in sense 'property inherited from one's mother': compare 1a) < classical Latin mātrimōnium state of being married < mātri- , māter mother

What does the origin of a word nearly 1000 years ago have to do with this particular debate?

And if that's how you want to define marriage, should it be off limits for women or men who may be infertile, or women who want to get married in their 50s, 60s etc.?

I asked him something similar earlier in the thread with respect to fiscal benefits. No response yet...

[armaghniac]

Armaghniac
Presumably you would consider the Republic of Ireland as a third world country?

I don't, perhaps you do given your unionist views expressed elsewhere.

And if that's how you want to define marriage, should it be off limits for women or men who may be infertile, or women who want to get married in their 50s, 60s etc.?

I asked him something similar earlier in the thread with respect to fiscal benefits. No response yet...

I was watching GAA on the tele, this being GAABoard some of you could do with some interest in GAA.
I don't see that the status of individual men and women getting married is a problem for the institution of marriage, this has no connection to its extension to same sex relationships.

He is used the term "all things being equal"  while suggesting that a gay couple would be unequal to a straight couple.

In relation to parenthood a gay couple is unequal to married couple.

[muppet]

Full Definition of HUSBANDRY

1
archaic :  the care of a household
2
:  the control or judicious use of resources :  conservation
3
a :  the cultivation or production of plants or animals :  agriculture
b :  the scientific control and management of a branch of farming and especially of domestic animals

Not sure what the point of using old definitions of words is.

I am inclined to think all Darwinian on this one. Homo Sapiens were freaks when they appeared. Neanderthals mated with them which must have been beyond freaky. In fact, I am certain I played against some of the offspring.

Life has survived on Earth because of change. The notion that we can stop evolving, or worse, cherrypick how we evolve is absurd.

But regarding this issue.

Simple question: Would anyone leave a child in an orphanage because they didn't believe a perfectly suitable gay couple should be allowed adopt that child?

[Farrandeelin]

This referendum will be passed easily.