How To Save The Planet

[Asal Mor]

I do completely disagree with you about people having more than two kids are being irresponsible, that level of reproduction is just not sustainable for a functioning society.

I'd argue that it's the only sustainable level of reproduction for a functioning planet joe. We'll have to wait and see on the food innovation thing, but I can't see how we'll do it when we're destroying the raw materials needed to make food - water, soil , oil, air , most animal species etc.

I'm not familiar with your local dialect there hardstation but I'm assuming that's a compliment.

[Sidney]

Olly humans will have little effect on the future of this planet. If everyone had a chance to see earth from the moon they would realise how insignificant we really are.

Eh, I think humans will have quite a significant effect on the future of this planet, amazingly enough.

[Asal Mor]

China from space:



the grey area is the smog over the East coast of China. By my estimation that smog-covered area would be about the size of mainland western Europe. It's the most densely populated part of China. Loads of cities you've never even heard of with bigger populations than Ireland. It's a perfect illustration of the disastrous effects of over-population on the planet.

[Olly]

That's just a stupid picture. Where are all the people?

[muppet]

That's just a stupid picture. Where are all the people?

They are all out at work ffs Olly.

By the way, those are some mighty fine ice-caps. Maybe we could tow them back to the poles to replace the melting ones?

[omaghjoe]

I do completely disagree with you about people having more than two kids are being irresponsible, that level of reproduction is just not sustainable for a functioning society.

I'd argue that it's the only sustainable level of reproduction for a functioning planet joe. We'll have to wait and see on the food innovation thing, but I can't see how we'll do it when we're destroying the raw materials needed to make food - water, soil , oil, air , most animal species etc.

I'm not familiar with your local dialect there hardstation but I'm assuming that's a compliment.

Why exactly would you come to that conclusion Asal? Limiting family size to 2 kids will lead to a population decrease. Aside from the obvious problem of where will (and how to) it stop it decreasing there are numerous other problems it would cause. For example at the moment some countries in Western Europe whose native populations have a low birth ratio, do not have enough young working people to provide labour in the economy. This is currently countered by immigration which itself leads to social problems as the immigrants are not familiar with the local customs and ways of life. However what if this was on a world wide scale and so immigration would not be an option? I'm not sure what would even happen most likely prolonged economic difficulties, which are invariably followed by war.

I agree with you in that humans need to find a more sustainable means of inhabiting this planet but depopulation is not the way forward.

There is easily enough land to produce enough food for the current population. One only has to look at India which has a huge population but is a net exporter of food.

[J70]

Holy shit, an Olly thread took a serious turn!

[Asal Mor]

I wouldn't disagree with your arguements Joe, but they're mostly economic and what's best for the economy is often what's worst for the planet.

I think the food situation will get worse in spite of our incredible innovations, but let's say we innovations stay ahead of changes in the environment and we can continue to increase the food supply, we're still faced with the moral question of whether it's ok to continue to destroy nature and wipe out all other non-farming species(except for the pests that we can't eliminate)for our own benefit.

The human race is destroying nature. That's an undeniable fact.

[omaghjoe]

I am actually talking about what is best for society/civilisation, which is actually what we are all really talking about isn't it? That we are destroying the planet in such a way that will lead to the collapse of human civilisation?
The planet will be here after we destroy ourselves if we do indeed do that, so if you are only talking about the planet dont worry, it will be fine, the question is: Will we be? isn't it?
Economic considerations are a huge part of that so to is sustainability on this planet to provide us with what we need.

Humans along with many other animals have always being changing nature, that is an undeniable fact. Nature usually suffers but has shown remarkable resilience to both bounce back and/or adapt sometimes we even come to celebrate the change as natural in itself. The blanket bogs in Ireland are a great example, completely man made and for the most part completely lacking any real biodiversity, however they are preserved by law.

The question of morality ( more ethics than morality I feel, but lets not split hairs) is entirely seperate, and one that will fall on deaf ears if the sustainability issue is not included. This is because morality of destroying nature will be balanced against the morality of not providing humans with their requirements for life. There will be only one winner in this case.
Other arguments in favour of preservation could include
- Physical Health (medicines, good clean unprocessed foods, clean air&water)
- Mental Health and Inspiration  (relaxation, new ideas etc you could perhaps even include "nature morality" here)
- Economic (tourism etc)

These arguments all have practical benefits to humans you will note, which as I stated at the outset is really what we are talking about.

[seafoid]

China from space:



the grey area is the smog over the East coast of China. By my estimation that smog-covered area would be about the size of mainland western Europe. It's the most densely populated part of China. Loads of cities you've never even heard of with bigger populations than Ireland. It's a perfect illustration of the disastrous effects of over-population on the planet.

is that mostly coal pollution, asal? China produces stuff for the rest of the world so some of that smog belongs to us.

[Mike Sheehy]

hmmm...so when china pollutes it is the (western)consumers at fault yet when oil companies sell oil to consumers it is the suppliers that are exploitative.

One could be forgiven for suspecting a certain political and ideological bias behind such a contradictory worldview

[seafoid]

hmmm...so when china pollutes it is the (western)consumers at fault yet when oil companies sell oil to consumers it is the suppliers that are exploitative.

One could be forgiven for suspecting a certain political and ideological bias behind such a contradictory worldview

Hey Sancho Panza

Get back on that donkey

[Mike Sheehy]

hmmm...so when china pollutes it is the (western)consumers at fault yet when oil companies sell oil to consumers it is the suppliers that are exploitative.

One could be forgiven for suspecting a certain political and ideological bias behind such a contradictory worldview

Hey Sancho Panza

Get back on that donkey

tut, tut.....so , no comment on egregious Chinese pollution ?

Aren't you the one always talking about sustainability ?

If you didn't waste so much time hating jews and Americans seafoid you might come up with a consistent worldview.

[omaghjoe]

hmmm...so when china pollutes it is the (western)consumers at fault yet when oil companies sell oil to consumers it is the suppliers that are exploitative.

One could be forgiven for suspecting a certain political and ideological bias behind such a contradictory worldview

Hey Sancho Panza

Get back on that donkey

tut, tut.....so , no comment on egregious Chinese pollution ?

Aren't you the one always talking about sustainability ?

If you didn't waste so much time hating jews and Americans seafoid you might come up with a consistent worldview.

Wud you two ever get a life. Why does every thread have to turn into some bitch fight between you two?

Do the pair of you ever consider that no one else ever wants to read your sh*te?

Send each other PMs and leave the rest of us in peace for God's sake!

[Mike Sheehy]

Its not my fault that he has to resort to personal insults everytime I highlight his hypocrisy.

jeez, talk about shooting the messenger 

I wish we could all just get along.....