Down Club Hurling & Football

[johnnycool]

Are there any challenge games arranged for this weekend or next week?

I think they're playing Laois next Saturday in Laois.

Any word how the hurlers got on?

Laois won handy enough.

I know Down are carrying a few lads on trial before the panel is trimmed so I'd have expected those lads to have gotten some gametime.

[johnnycool]

I see that new proposals are being made for the Down SHC/ IHC. This would see the team that wins the IHC group stage going straight into the following year's SHC regardless of how they do in the IHC knock out stages. Seems unfair that a side that beats the 8th, 9th and 10th clubs (in a county with just 14 hurling teams)gets straight to the SHC even though they lose the IHC final and haven't beaten any of the SHC teams. If these changes are made (and I'm not sure what was wrong with the current system which was just bedding in!),  there should at least be a playoff between the losing IHC finalists and the bottom team in the SHC group stage. That would ensure that the best teams qualify for the following year's SHC.

Several options to be discussed.

I'd stick with the current format for another year or two to see if there are any trends like yoyo clubs but if you look at last year Carryduff were no push overs and will learn from it.

[Ed Hardy]

Any word on the Down football panel for national league? Roscommon away on Sunday week is very difficult start, a draw would be a good result.

[Lowintotheforwards]

I see that new proposals are being made for the Down SHC/ IHC. This would see the team that wins the IHC group stage going straight into the following year's SHC regardless of how they do in the IHC knock out stages. Seems unfair that a side that beats the 8th, 9th and 10th clubs (in a county with just 14 hurling teams)gets straight to the SHC even though they lose the IHC final and haven't beaten any of the SHC teams. If these changes are made (and I'm not sure what was wrong with the current system which was just bedding in!),  there should at least be a playoff between the losing IHC finalists and the bottom team in the SHC group stage. That would ensure that the best teams qualify for the following year's SHC.

Several options to be discussed.

I'd stick with the current format for another year or two to see if there are any trends like yoyo clubs but if you look at last year Carryduff were no push overs and will learn from it.

Agree 100 % - the proposal which automatically promotes the IHC group winners will inevitably lead to a yo-yo situation.

[Truth hurts]

This week we have some poor score lines for Down schools in their respective competitions. The Red High were destroyed in the McLarnon. Will Down be sending a full time coach to the Red High?

[johnnycool]

This week we have some poor score lines for Down schools in their respective competitions. The Red High were destroyed in the McLarnon. Will Down be sending a full time coach to the Red High?

Lecale Trinity?

They should be sending a coach in for the football and the hurling considering the new size of this school.

[Hard2Listen2]

This week we have some poor score lines for Down schools in their respective competitions. The Red High were destroyed in the McLarnon. Will Down be sending a full time coach to the Red High?

Down GAA don't put full time coaches into any schools.
They put coaches into some primary schools for one session per week.
There used to be Ulster GAA couches in primary schools for younger kids but funding gone for that.

I doubt if there is any money to pay for more coaches let alone full time in any schools

There should be enough suitably qualified teachers in Red High to coach their teams. Plenty of parents also involved in coaching in clubs & possibly county teams.
Same with most of our post primary schools.


Some schools have full time development officers. The Abbey has one & a few Derry schools too but as far as I know these are funded by the school or more likely by generous benefactors.

[No1]

The Red High is dead. The new amalgamation doesn't even have enough teachers to cover classes so I wouldn't be holding out for coaching excellence to come from there anytime soon.

[ONARAGGATIP]

Down supporters club running a bus to roscommon game. Details on the official Facebook page.

[Splash]

I see that new proposals are being made for the Down SHC/ IHC. This would see the team that wins the IHC group stage going straight into the following year's SHC regardless of how they do in the IHC knock out stages. Seems unfair that a side that beats the 8th, 9th and 10th clubs (in a county with just 14 hurling teams)gets straight to the SHC even though they lose the IHC final and haven't beaten any of the SHC teams. If these changes are made (and I'm not sure what was wrong with the current system which was just bedding in!),  there should at least be a playoff between the losing IHC finalists and the bottom team in the SHC group stage. That would ensure that the best teams qualify for the following year's SHC.

Several options to be discussed.

I'd stick with the current format for another year or two to see if there are any trends like yoyo clubs but if you look at last year Carryduff were no push overs and will learn from it.

Agree 100 % - the proposal which automatically promotes the IHC group winners will inevitably lead to a yo-yo situation.

It's not an ideal situation but the current Intermediate Championship system simply does not work.

Incredibly disheartening for the likes of Warrenpoint/Shamrocks to top a group only to have senior teams come down and play the intermediate final. The 3 players nominated for player of the intermediate championship played at most, 2 games each.

 I'm not saying that the intermediate clubs should be upset their players were not nominated for player of the championship, I'm just saying it reflects how the championship on a whole is received.

Shamrocks, the Point, Clonduff and Kilclief all played an intermediate round robin only for the final to be contested by Bredagh and Carryduff.

This is not to blame Carryduff and Bredagh- they are rightly taking their opportunities and the other teams need to try and get to their level, but it must be incredibly disheartening for players knowing two senior teams will in all likelihood be in the final.

The proposed system isn't perfect, but it's certainly interesting. It is the most even intermediate championship we've had in a while- the Point have massively closed the gap to Shamrocks, Clonduff will be looking to get back to where they were, and Ballela seem to be rejuvenated.

The only way any of these teams will continue to progress to the next level is more game time against higher quality opponents. Of course, any of those teams against Portaferry or Ballygalget will in all likelihood be a very lopsided affair, but in the long run, more exposure to higher quality level hurling should be beneficial.

It will lead to yo yo teams but we have that at the moment, and I think it's in the greater interest of the county's hurling scene to have these teams be yo yo teams as opposed to Carryduff and Bredagh.


It's not an ideal system, but the one we have at the moment is ridiculous and needs to be changed.

It must be very disheartening to go out and play an intermediate championship at the moment.

[johnnycool]

I see that new proposals are being made for the Down SHC/ IHC. This would see the team that wins the IHC group stage going straight into the following year's SHC regardless of how they do in the IHC knock out stages. Seems unfair that a side that beats the 8th, 9th and 10th clubs (in a county with just 14 hurling teams)gets straight to the SHC even though they lose the IHC final and haven't beaten any of the SHC teams. If these changes are made (and I'm not sure what was wrong with the current system which was just bedding in!),  there should at least be a playoff between the losing IHC finalists and the bottom team in the SHC group stage. That would ensure that the best teams qualify for the following year's SHC.

Several options to be discussed.

I'd stick with the current format for another year or two to see if there are any trends like yoyo clubs but if you look at last year Carryduff were no push overs and will learn from it.

Agree 100 % - the proposal which automatically promotes the IHC group winners will inevitably lead to a yo-yo situation.

It's not an ideal situation but the current Intermediate Championship system simply does not work.

Incredibly disheartening for the likes of Warrenpoint/Shamrocks to top a group only to have senior teams come down and play the intermediate final. The 3 players nominated for player of the intermediate championship played at most, 2 games each.

 I'm not saying that the intermediate clubs should be upset their players were not nominated for player of the championship, I'm just saying it reflects how the championship on a whole is received.

Shamrocks, the Point, Clonduff and Kilclief all played an intermediate round robin only for the final to be contested by Bredagh and Carryduff.

This is not to blame Carryduff and Bredagh- they are rightly taking their opportunities and the other teams need to try and get to their level, but it must be incredibly disheartening for players knowing two senior teams will in all likelihood be in the final.

The proposed system isn't perfect, but it's certainly interesting. It is the most even intermediate championship we've had in a while- the Point have massively closed the gap to Shamrocks, Clonduff will be looking to get back to where they were, and Ballela seem to be rejuvenated.

The only way any of these teams will continue to progress to the next level is more game time against higher quality opponents. Of course, any of those teams against Portaferry or Ballygalget will in all likelihood be a very lopsided affair, but in the long run, more exposure to higher quality level hurling should be beneficial.

It will lead to yo yo teams but we have that at the moment, and I think it's in the greater interest of the county's hurling scene to have these teams be yo yo teams as opposed to Carryduff and Bredagh.


It's not an ideal system, but the one we have at the moment is ridiculous and needs to be changed.

It must be very disheartening to go out and play an intermediate championship at the moment.

I understand how that might feel for the likes of Warrenpoint, Newry etc but winning a Down IHC might make you feel better until you go into the Ulster championship and get an absolute booting.

The other side of this conversation is that we need to be sending competitive teams into the Ulster championship, that's the level these intermediate teams need to get to or else they're realistically junior teams.

Would the non top 6 teams be better in the one level of championship, maybe two groups of 4 where the top one from each group meet the bottom two from the senior and the 2nd placed teams play off for a junior title?

Are Warrenpoint, Newry, Kilclief and Clonduff much higher of a standard than Ballela, Castlewellan, East Belfast and Ballyvarley?

[Lowintotheforwards]

Sorry Splash but surely it's not ridiculous to have your 6 best teams getting into the SHC. That's what the current system provides for. It also provides a pathway for the intermediate group teams to get there. That is how Carryduff got there- by beating a team that dropped down. If the intermediate group team is good enough, they will qualify.

[Splash]

I see that new proposals are being made for the Down SHC/ IHC. This would see the team that wins the IHC group stage going straight into the following year's SHC regardless of how they do in the IHC knock out stages. Seems unfair that a side that beats the 8th, 9th and 10th clubs (in a county with just 14 hurling teams)gets straight to the SHC even though they lose the IHC final and haven't beaten any of the SHC teams. If these changes are made (and I'm not sure what was wrong with the current system which was just bedding in!),  there should at least be a playoff between the losing IHC finalists and the bottom team in the SHC group stage. That would ensure that the best teams qualify for the following year's SHC.

Several options to be discussed.

I'd stick with the current format for another year or two to see if there are any trends like yoyo clubs but if you look at last year Carryduff were no push overs and will learn from it.

Agree 100 % - the proposal which automatically promotes the IHC group winners will inevitably lead to a yo-yo situation.

It's not an ideal situation but the current Intermediate Championship system simply does not work.

Incredibly disheartening for the likes of Warrenpoint/Shamrocks to top a group only to have senior teams come down and play the intermediate final. The 3 players nominated for player of the intermediate championship played at most, 2 games each.

 I'm not saying that the intermediate clubs should be upset their players were not nominated for player of the championship, I'm just saying it reflects how the championship on a whole is received.

Shamrocks, the Point, Clonduff and Kilclief all played an intermediate round robin only for the final to be contested by Bredagh and Carryduff.

This is not to blame Carryduff and Bredagh- they are rightly taking their opportunities and the other teams need to try and get to their level, but it must be incredibly disheartening for players knowing two senior teams will in all likelihood be in the final.

The proposed system isn't perfect, but it's certainly interesting. It is the most even intermediate championship we've had in a while- the Point have massively closed the gap to Shamrocks, Clonduff will be looking to get back to where they were, and Ballela seem to be rejuvenated.

The only way any of these teams will continue to progress to the next level is more game time against higher quality opponents. Of course, any of those teams against Portaferry or Ballygalget will in all likelihood be a very lopsided affair, but in the long run, more exposure to higher quality level hurling should be beneficial.

It will lead to yo yo teams but we have that at the moment, and I think it's in the greater interest of the county's hurling scene to have these teams be yo yo teams as opposed to Carryduff and Bredagh.


It's not an ideal system, but the one we have at the moment is ridiculous and needs to be changed.

It must be very disheartening to go out and play an intermediate championship at the moment.

I understand how that might feel for the likes of Warrenpoint, Newry etc but winning a Down IHC might make you feel better until you go into the Ulster championship and get an absolute booting.

The other side of this conversation is that we need to be sending competitive teams into the Ulster championship, that's the level these intermediate teams need to get to or else they're realistically junior teams.

Would the non top 6 teams be better in the one level of championship, maybe two groups of 4 where the top one from each group meet the bottom two from the senior and the 2nd placed teams play off for a junior title?

Are Warrenpoint, Newry, Kilclief and Clonduff much higher of a standard than Ballela, Castlewellan, East Belfast and Ballyvarley?

Absolutely spot on about Down clubs performances in Ulster, but I would rather see us try and raise the standard of our Intermediate clubs to that of Carey, Carrickmore, Castleyblaney, etc.

Now how you do it is a complicated task, but ideally it would be great to get our clubs to that level.

On top of this, I'd argue it's not outside the realms of possibility our Intermediate clubs would struggle to win an Ulster Junior Championship. This is something we need to find a solution for.

I have heard a similar idea proposed before for the non top 6 clubs, and to be honest, there's a lot of merit in it.

We don't really have any real intermediate clubs in Down. Perhaps Shamrocks and Warrenpoint, but there's a massive gulf between senior and everyone else.

Armagh run a similar sort of idea I think, but we have probably too many teams for it to be run smoothly.

A few more clubs would do wonders for restructuring to be honest.

In regards to the standard of those clubs, Newry and Warrenpoint are in general a good bit above those clubs (Castlewellan beat Newry in the league and Clonduff gave Warrenpoint a scare in the championship but to be honest they are more exceptions than the norm).

I would actually argue East Belfast and Castlewellan are currently stronger than Kilclief and Clonduff. Both EB and CW will be in Div 1 this year whilst Kilclief and Clonduff will be in Div 2. CW beat Clonduff in Div 1 last year, EB beat Kilclief well in Div 2 to go up.

Ballyvarley are a bit off again, but they are capable of matching those teams on their day, although they took heavy beatings to both EB and CW in this years championship.

Ballela are very hard to place. Won the Junior Championship, but you never know. Rely very much on a few key players and their availability has a real impact. With everyone available, would probably be a dark horse for intermediate, but also wouldn't be a massive surprise if they were unable to field.

It's a very difficult set up to try and structure, but I still think the reward of promotion should be there for any team who wins their respective championship, regardless of how big the step is.

[Splash]

Sorry Splash but surely it's not ridiculous to have your 6 best teams getting into the SHC. That's what the current system provides for. It also provides a pathway for the intermediate group teams to get there. That is how Carryduff got there- by beating a team that dropped down. If the intermediate group team is good enough, they will qualify.

No of course not- it's great we now have 6 teams in our senior championship.

However I do think it would ultimately benefit from having more teams, but we need at least 2-4 more hurling clubs in Down before that becomes realistic.

In regards to Carryduff managing to go through this system to senior, whilst youre obviously correct, the Carryduff/Shamrocks situation was not a fair reflection in my honest opinion.

Carryduff, for a wide array of reasons, were and are a stronger team than Shamrocks, particularly in the 2023 season. I would be very surprised if we ever see a senior team be so well beat by an intermediate team again any time soon.

(This is not to take away from Shamrocks, they are a good team but Carryduff are just further along).

Carryduff also got annihilated by Bredagh in that final, who also dropped down, which could be used to fit the narrative of 'if the intermediate team was good enough to come up, they'd beat the senior team in a playoff,' and say that they deserved another year in the intermediate. But instead Carryduff came up and beat Bredagh in the championship in 2024 and had a very competitive debut season of Senior Hurling.

Now obviously, most teams will not adapt to the Senior Championship as well as Carryduff have, but you have to give them the chance at least.

My biggest issue with the set up is the two senior teams dropping down to the intermediate. I wouldn't agree with letting one team drop down, let alone two. This essentially pre-determines the final.

I don't see why we don't have a straight promotion/relegation system. In the football, Longstone were relegated from the SFC, whilst Drumgath were promoted to it. No play offs, no senior teams entering the intermediate championship. I understand obviously the football championships have the luxury of 50 teams to draw from, but fundamentally it's the same idea.

I see the draw backs to it, and the obvious potential of teams yo-yoing, but I think the system in place at the moments leaves too many hoops for the intermediate teams to jump through.

It's incredibly frustrating because either way comes at a cost.

Teams like Carryduff need time to settle into the senior championship and develop, and them  having a few poor days and being relegated won't help.

On the other side, teams like Warrenpoint need a goal to strive towards, and significantly lowering their chance of winning a championship by having one of Bredagh/Liatroim/even Ballycran coming down to contest an intermediate final effectively stagnates the IHC.

It's a difficult issue to resolve.

[Truth hurts]

Sorry Splash but surely it's not ridiculous to have your 6 best teams getting into the SHC. That's what the current system provides for. It also provides a pathway for the intermediate group teams to get there. That is how Carryduff got there- by beating a team that dropped down. If the intermediate group team is good enough, they will qualify.

No of course not- it's great we now have 6 teams in our senior championship.

However I do think it would ultimately benefit from having more teams, but we need at least 2-4 more hurling clubs in Down before that becomes realistic.

In regards to Carryduff managing to go through this system to senior, whilst youre obviously correct, the Carryduff/Shamrocks situation was not a fair reflection in my honest opinion.

Carryduff, for a wide array of reasons, were and are a stronger team than Shamrocks, particularly in the 2023 season. I would be very surprised if we ever see a senior team be so well beat by an intermediate team again any time soon.

(This is not to take away from Shamrocks, they are a good team but Carryduff are just further along).

Carryduff also got annihilated by Bredagh in that final, who also dropped down, which could be used to fit the narrative of 'if the intermediate team was good enough to come up, they'd beat the senior team in a playoff,' and say that they deserved another year in the intermediate. But instead Carryduff came up and beat Bredagh in the championship in 2024 and had a very competitive debut season of Senior Hurling.

Now obviously, most teams will not adapt to the Senior Championship as well as Carryduff have, but you have to give them the chance at least.

My biggest issue with the set up is the two senior teams dropping down to the intermediate. I wouldn't agree with letting one team drop down, let alone two. This essentially pre-determines the final.

I don't see why we don't have a straight promotion/relegation system. In the football, Longstone were relegated from the SFC, whilst Drumgath were promoted to it. No play offs, no senior teams entering the intermediate championship. I understand obviously the football championships have the luxury of 50 teams to draw from, but fundamentally it's the same idea.

I see the draw backs to it, and the obvious potential of teams yo-yoing, but I think the system in place at the moments leaves too many hoops for the intermediate teams to jump through.

It's incredibly frustrating because either way comes at a cost.

Teams like Carryduff need time to settle into the senior championship and develop, and them  having a few poor days and being relegated won't help.

On the other side, teams like Warrenpoint need a goal to strive towards, and significantly lowering their chance of winning a championship by having one of Bredagh/Liatroim/even Ballycran coming down to contest an intermediate final effectively stagnates the IHC.

It's a difficult issue to resolve.

If you were the county hurling officer, where would you target to have 2-4 hurling clubs?