Down Club Hurling & Football

[snoopdog]

James did reference many times that we didnt have the players after the defeats during his recent reign as minor manager. CL and MC didnt have these problems with the same group of players.

the 2020 minors were supposedly the best around and mccartan and poacher couldn't get the team to string a pass together.

[downtothecore]

They were very competitive this year against Tyrone u20s who are now in AIF. No other down team at any age group including seniors have come near a big gun in a long time.

[Hard2Listen2]

James did reference many times that we didnt have the players after the defeats during his recent reign as minor manager. CL and MC didnt have these problems with the same group of players.

the 2020 minors were supposedly the best around and mccartan and poacher couldn't get the team to string a pass together.

To be fair with covid both 2020 & 2021 were very difficult seasons for all teams. No judgement should be made based on those two years.

[Johnnysboys]

They were very competitive this year against Tyrone u20s who are now in AIF. No other down team at any age group including seniors have come near a big gun in a long time.

So now winning doesn't really matter - we were very competitive against a team in the AI final.. There are lots and lots of people who simply won't be happy u til Laverty gets the senior job. Then they will find a new angle to complain about.

[manwithnoplan]

They were very competitive this year against Tyrone u20s who are now in AIF. No other down team at any age group including seniors have come near a big gun in a long time.

So now winning doesn't really matter - we were very competitive against a team in the AI final.. There are lots and lots of people who simply won't be happy u til Laverty gets the senior job. Then they will find a new angle to complain about.

Well only one team can win a football match, and if you're competitive in a game of football against a team that goes on to reach the All Ireland final then it's not exactly a negative, no matter how much some people want to make it out to be.

[downtothecore]

It is also very clear that there is minority that doent want lavery to get the job.

[rosskarr]

It is also very clear that there is minority that doent want lavery to get the job.

The job is currently not available.

[Hard2Listen2]

It is also very clear that there is minority that doent want lavery to get the job.

The job is currently not available.

Does James have any set length of time on his agreement?

I thought he'd taken it for a year to buy time for a more long term management team to be found.

[Johnnysboys]

Well only one team can win a football match, and if you're competitive in a game of football against a team that goes on to reach the All Ireland final then it's not exactly a negative, no matter how much some people want to make it out to be.
[/quote]

So the minors getting beaten by the eventual champions on three occasions in James' 5 years is ok then. We were also seriously competitive v Armagh in 2011 when we Pete was in charge - 9 points up at half time I believe. So it's actually all good - we r not that bad at underage after all.

[manwithnoplan]

Well only one team can win a football match, and if you're competitive in a game of football against a team that goes on to reach the All Ireland final then it's not exactly a negative, no matter how much some people want to make it out to be.

So the minors getting beaten by the eventual champions on three occasions in James' 5 years is ok then. We were also seriously competitive v Armagh in 2011 when we Pete was in charge - 9 points up at half time I believe. So it's actually all good - we r not that bad at underage after all.
[/quote]

Nobody said it's "all good" but the likes of yourself seem to just love getting the boot in whatever the situation may be. Does this whole attitude stem from an inherent belief that Down have a devine right to be winning regularly? When in truth only a few counties can win something each year, and all have had peaks and troughs, some like ourselves longer than others, but sport is generally cyclical anyway.

[thewobbler]

Well only one team can win a football match, and if you're competitive in a game of football against a team that goes on to reach the All Ireland final then it's not exactly a negative, no matter how much some people want to make it out to be.

So the minors getting beaten by the eventual champions on three occasions in James' 5 years is ok then. We were also seriously competitive v Armagh in 2011 when we Pete was in charge - 9 points up at half time I believe. So it's actually all good - we r not that bad at underage after all.

Nobody said it's "all good" but the likes of yourself seem to just love getting the boot in whatever the situation may be. Does this whole attitude stem from an inherent belief that Down have a devine right to be winning regularly? When in truth only a few counties can win something each year, and all have had peaks and troughs, some like ourselves longer than others, but sport is generally cyclical anyway.
[/quote]

I'd tend to agree with this statement when it comes to sport. When people describe eg Man City "only" winning the league as a disappointing season, it makes my blood boil. The expectations can never marry the reality.

But 23 years without an Ulster minor title, for a county as populous and football focused as Down, suggests it's more than a cycle.

Over the course of this period, at minor level we said goodbye to the "always competitive" tier inhabited by Tyrone, Derry and Donegal, then almost unflinchingly bypassed the "occasionally competitive" tier where you'd find Monaghan, Armagh and Cavan, and landed head on in with the also-rans of Fermanagh and Antrim (and tbf, Fermanagh do punch quite well when their players align).

The current Down senior football team now fully reflects that descent. The two go hand in hand, except a decade apart.

It's an enormous issue for our county.  Down going (at least) 24 years between minor titles is beyond a statistical anomaly at this stage.

[manwithnoplan]

Well only one team can win a football match, and if you're competitive in a game of football against a team that goes on to reach the All Ireland final then it's not exactly a negative, no matter how much some people want to make it out to be.

So the minors getting beaten by the eventual champions on three occasions in James' 5 years is ok then. We were also seriously competitive v Armagh in 2011 when we Pete was in charge - 9 points up at half time I believe. So it's actually all good - we r not that bad at underage after all.

Nobody said it's "all good" but the likes of yourself seem to just love getting the boot in whatever the situation may be. Does this whole attitude stem from an inherent belief that Down have a devine right to be winning regularly? When in truth only a few counties can win something each year, and all have had peaks and troughs, some like ourselves longer than others, but sport is generally cyclical anyway.

I'd tend to agree with this statement when it comes to sport. When people describe eg Man City "only" winning the league as a disappointing season, it makes my blood boil. The expectations can never marry the reality.

But 23 years without an Ulster minor title, for a county as populous and football focused as Down, suggests it's more than a cycle.

Over the course of this period, at minor level we said goodbye to the "always competitive" tier inhabited by Tyrone, Derry and Donegal, then almost unflinchingly bypassed the "occasionally competitive" tier where you'd find Monaghan, Armagh and Cavan, and landed head on in with the also-rans of Fermanagh and Antrim (and tbf, Fermanagh do punch quite well when their players align).

The current Down senior football team now fully reflects that descent. The two go hand in hand, except a decade apart.

It's an enormous issue for our county.  Down going (at least) 24 years between minor titles is beyond a statistical anomaly at this stage.
[/quote]

I do not disagree that there has been underachievement. But it's just the constant sniping about it is not productive at all. I hope those that snipe the most are backing it up with their own tremendous work at club level. It is an incredibly competitive environment at intercounty under age now, more than ever. One person in the right role within the county set up can make a hell of a difference. But one person in the right role within each club would make the biggest possible difference. So is that where we should be focusing on first and foremost? Supporting the clubs and their volunteers? Instead of naming and shaming others who get the county roles? I prefer solutions being suggested and discussed rather than the negative things we see on here daily, but sure that's just me. 

[wobbller]

 And by the time the annual Convention comes around before Christmas,the usual officers will be elected and probably not even opposed.The cycle of incompetence will continue.

[snoopdog]

And by the time the annual Convention comes around before Christmas,the usual officers will be elected and probably not even opposed.The cycle of incompetence will continue.

And Eugene Brannigan got slated off telling the truth. There is no winning mentality in  the various Down football levels bar last years 20s. There isn't even a competitive mentality.  And it's the lack of competitiveness that gets most people. Whether your good enough the team should still be as fit and as prepared as any other team in Ulster.

[Hard2Listen2]

And by the time the annual Convention comes around before Christmas,the usual officers will be elected and probably not even opposed.The cycle of incompetence will continue.

There is a way to change that.

Start with going to your club's AGM. Put your hand up and say "I want to be county board rep" and start to make changes from there.

Easier to make changes from within.