Are Dublin the best team ever ?

[Zulu]

Many of the current team are 'manufactured' footballers,  built out of training grids and spreadsheets,  they are pure footballers.  They do not think on their feet and if plan A isn't working the players themselves don't know how to react as they have only been coached plan A.  That is partly a managerial fault but is also a systematic fault as the whole system has created automaton footballers.

I wouldn't agree with that and I can't think of anything that backs that assertion up. Diarmuid Connelly is as natural a footballer as you could hope to see.

[brokencrossbar1]

Many of the current team are 'manufactured' footballers,  built out of training grids and spreadsheets,  they are pure footballers.  They do not think on their feet and if plan A isn't working the players themselves don't know how to react as they have only been coached plan A.  That is partly a managerial fault but is also a systematic fault as the whole system has created automaton footballers.

I wouldn't agree with that and I can't think of anything that backs that assertion up. Diarmuid Connelly is as natural a footballer as you could hope to see.

I said many not all.  Connolly is a very natural footballer as is Brogan, MD McAuley is a mullocker who has worked himself into a 'footballer' through hard work and fitness training.  He is effective but I would classify him as a 'manufactured' footballer.  Ciaran Kilkenny to my mind was a huge loss this year as he is a serious good footballer and I reckon if he had been fit he would have been key to unpick the Donegal defence, but he wasn't so...

[Zulu]

But BC1 there are always mullockers on every team, most midfielders are traditionally big boned mullockers. Cluxton, McCaffery, McCarthy, O'Sullivan, Flynn, Connnolly, Brogans X 2, Andrews, Mannion, Cooper etc. are all excellent footballers and many of them have strong claims to be in the top 5 footballers in Ireland.

[Sidney]

Hilarious reading the Dubs posts here acting like young children. Trying their hardest to defend their millions spent by saying they started it first like a 5 year old.
I think counties have always tried to get an edge and that has gone from the Pat Spillane era of training with weights around their legs to the modern sports psychologists who think of everything from diet to who you react to conceding a goal.
I think we're now see it reach another level where counties are spending loads on training camps and all sorts of semi professional behaviour.
It certainly sounds like those with the most money or have a fat sugar daddy, sorry not you Rory McIlroy, are having some impact on their counties preparations.
I have to say I'm shocked to hear Donegal's use of Celtics facilities and just shows how the GAA world is changing.

We were talking about the whole way the game is going at the minute and the amount of money being spent on 'specialist' coaches etc to get the extra 'edge'.  We were talking about it at a club level but it also relates to county but the whole notion of 'greatness' is not created by what is done at the age of 18, 19, 20 or upwards but what is done at 8, 9 and 10.  The Kerrys, and Kilkennys of the game do not focus on the system or the cult of the manager or the super duper fitness coach.  They have an innate belief in each and every one of the players that pulls on the jersey.  As 8 and 9 year olds these now senior players are bred to believe that they are the greatest footballers or hurlers in the country,  whether they are or not.  The pure belief, that extra 10% that teams are paying sports psychologists a small fortune for is very hard to instill into someone who has never truly had that belief.  I see it at our club at all levels and it is the intangible 'x factor' that you cannot buy.  At county level I would classify Kerry in football, KK, Cork and Tipp in the hurling as teams that have this.  I would not put Dublin in that category as a county.  They have the old Jack swagger and all that but deep down there is always a nagging doubt about them, can they live with the hype? Can they cope with the pressure?  Many of the current team are 'manufactured' footballers,  built out of training grids and spreadsheets,  they are pure footballers.  They do not think on their feet and if plan A isn't working the players themselves don't know how to react as they have only been coached plan A.  That is partly a managerial fault but is also a systematic fault as the whole system has created automaton footballers.

Kerry couldn't deal with Donegal either (or Tyrone in the 2000s) and I'd hardly call them automaton footballers unable to think on their feet.

The simple fact is there really isn't any way you can deal with a 13 man defence. You can only beat it by a combination of sheer bloody mindedness and luck. With 17 scores (and it should have been a lot more) against it Dublin did a hell of a lot better than anybody else has managed against an on-form Donegal defence.

When a game plan succeeds a team and their coach are praised for sticking with what they believed in. When it fails the're pilloried for not changing it. If Dublin had put away even one of those goal chances and got an eight point lead Donegal would likely not have come back and we'd have been hearing all week about how McGuinness had failed to move with the times in terms of tactics. That would have been complete rubbish, and of course it's also rubbish to say Dublin footballers are automatons produced by spreadsheets, it's completely laughable.

[brokencrossbar1]

But BC1 there are always mullockers on every team, most midfielders are traditionally big boned mullockers. Cluxton, McCaffery, McCarthy, O'Sullivan, Flynn, Connnolly, Brogans X 2, Andrews, Mannion, Cooper etc. are all excellent footballers and many of them have strong claims to be in the top 5 footballers in Ireland.

You see McCaffrey and Flynn would be to me the epitome of what I'm talking about. I'm not saying they are not good at what they do but they are very reflective of the modern day footballer. Pace, power and fitness. Flynn has a lovely strike of the ball but he is very much a worker bee. Connolly as I said above is very talented, in fact I would go as far as to say he is the most 'talented' player in the country. His temperament seems to have adjusted slightly. The brogans are footballers as is Andrews and McCarthy. Mannion has a nice left foot but is a bit of a one trick pony from what I've seen of him. The reality is that other people have seen more of these players than me. They all are excellent individual players. I don't though see in them the game awareness that sets them apart. When the flow is going the right way they are very good. When it isn't they can be found out.

[Zulu]

I don't know BC1, I think you're applying a standard to Dublin that if applied to any other county would come up with the same result but only with more manufactured footballers. I think Flynn is a magnificent footballer and athlete, like Brian Dooher was for example. I really don't know if you can say they can't think their way through games as they've won so many, including close ones or games where they've been well behind, that you can't pick out last Sunday and hold it up as an example of anything. Dublin should have come off the field with 1-20 at least which is phenomenal against Donegal. It's all opinions I suppose but I reckon Dublin have more natural footballers than anyone else at the moment.

[INDIANA]

Hilarious reading the Dubs posts here acting like young children. Trying their hardest to defend their millions spent by saying they started it first like a 5 year old.
I think counties have always tried to get an edge and that has gone from the Pat Spillane era of training with weights around their legs to the modern sports psychologists who think of everything from diet to who you react to conceding a goal.
I think we're now see it reach another level where counties are spending loads on training camps and all sorts of semi professional behaviour.
It certainly sounds like those with the most money or have a fat sugar daddy, sorry not you Rory McIlroy, are having some impact on their counties preparations.
I have to say I'm shocked to hear Donegal's use of Celtics facilities and just shows how the GAA world is changing.

We were talking about the whole way the game is going at the minute and the amount of money being spent on 'specialist' coaches etc to get the extra 'edge'.  We were talking about it at a club level but it also relates to county but the whole notion of 'greatness' is not created by what is done at the age of 18, 19, 20 or upwards but what is done at 8, 9 and 10.  The Kerrys, and Kilkennys of the game do not focus on the system or the cult of the manager or the super duper fitness coach.  They have an innate belief in each and every one of the players that pulls on the jersey.  As 8 and 9 year olds these now senior players are bred to believe that they are the greatest footballers or hurlers in the country,  whether they are or not.  The pure belief, that extra 10% that teams are paying sports psychologists a small fortune for is very hard to instill into someone who has never truly had that belief.  I see it at our club at all levels and it is the intangible 'x factor' that you cannot buy.  At county level I would classify Kerry in football, KK, Cork and Tipp in the hurling as teams that have this.  I would not put Dublin in that category as a county.  They have the old Jack swagger and all that but deep down there is always a nagging doubt about them, can they live with the hype? Can they cope with the pressure?  Many of the current team are 'manufactured' footballers,  built out of training grids and spreadsheets,  they are pure footballers.  They do not think on their feet and if plan A isn't working the players themselves don't know how to react as they have only been coached plan A.  That is partly a managerial fault but is also a systematic fault as the whole system has created automaton footballers.

Kerry couldn't deal with Donegal either (or Tyrone in the 2000s) and I'd hardly call them automaton footballers unable to think on their feet.

The simple fact is there really isn't any way you can deal with a 13 man defence. You can only beat it by a combination of sheer bloody mindedness and luck. With 17 scores (and it should have been a lot more) against it Dublin did a hell of a lot better than anybody else has managed against an on-form Donegal defence.

When a game plan succeeds a team and their coach are praised for sticking with what they believed in. When it fails the're pilloried for not changing it. If Dublin had put away even one of those goal chances and got an eight point lead Donegal would likely not have come back and we'd have been hearing all week about how McGuinness had failed to move with the times in terms of tactics. That would have been complete rubbish, and of course it's also rubbish to say Dublin footballers are automatons produced by spreadsheets, it's completely laughable.

Thats conplete rubbish Sidney. We were uncompletely unprepared for last week. Donegal have been beaten more then a few times in the last few years. But you need a plan and you need to be able to change things. We did neither last week

[Zulu]

I wouldn't entirely agree Indiana, though I accept Dublin didn't adapt when the game was in the melting pot. In saying that Dublin were very effective in the first half and might have felt they could push on in the second half, conceding the goals which weren't unpreventable even with the man on man defensive structure Dublin used were a killer. From my seat in the Davin stand the number of Donegal men in defence meant a Dublin goal was all but impossible in the second half.

[INDIANA]

I wouldn't entirely agree Indiana, though I accept Dublin didn't adapt when the game was in the melting pot. In saying that Dublin were very effective in the first half and might have felt they could push on in the second half, conceding the goals which weren't unpreventable even with the man on man defensive structure Dublin used were a killer. From my seat in the Davin stand the number of Donegal men in defence meant a Dublin goal was all but impossible in the second half.

Have you ever been involved in a game whereby your half forwards kicked you to victory over 60-70mins by scoring points they'd score once  a year?

We had no plan to get our inside forwards into the game and hence why we lost.

[Zulu]

There is no plan to get it into the full forward line. That's the whole point of the Donegal system, they take that away from you, to beat them that's the first thing you have to accept.

[Zip Code]

I don't know BC1, I think you're applying a standard to Dublin that if applied to any other county would come up with the same result but only with more manufactured footballers. I think Flynn is a magnificent footballer and athlete, like Brian Dooher was for example. I really don't know if you can say they can't think their way through games as they've won so many, including close ones or games where they've been well behind, that you can't pick out last Sunday and hold it up as an example of anything. Dublin should have come off the field with 1-20 at least which is phenomenal against Donegal. It's all opinions I suppose but I reckon Dublin have more natural footballers than anyone else at the moment.

They didn't though, what's your point?

[Zulu]

That their basic tactical set up was fine.

[Zip Code]

But they didn't score 1:20 and conceded 3 goals, Armagh give Donegal a better game and they are in lowly divison 3.

[Zulu]

The reason they didn't score 1-20 or more had nothing to do with their tactics which is the point. Yes, they conceded 3 goals but Dublin give you a chance to score by the way they play and they are happy with that. So how are their tactics at fault? What is your point btw?

[Zip Code]

My point is why are you still crying 19 pages later, and what's this about what they should have scored, the scoreline shows you what they did score, which wasn't near enough!