Long Kesh Park takes another step forward

[Donagh]

Excellent, well done. NOt sure what it has to do with this discussion but thanks for letting us know. 


Err you obviously need your glasses checked. I few people have said it might work and most have said they need more detail. No mention of 'Fenians' at all, especially as there will be plenty of 'Fenians' wherever NI play (as there always have been and always will be)

Go on then show us all where the PWC report said there would be £100 tickets.

Aye dead on Sammy.

In order to make the Maze 'cheaper' than the various Belfast sites, the PWC report said the Maze would gerenate £207 million in ticket revenue, over the first four years and that this was based on 23 events generating 469000 spectators per year. 469000 per year for four years is 1876000. £207 million divided by 1876000 spectators = £110.34 per ticket.

Full report is at http://www.dcalni.gov.uk/proposed_multi_sports_stadium_for_northern_ireland_-_business_case_-_final_report_november_2007.pdf if you're interested.

So then if you read my previous posts you will see that income is not dependent on ticket sales, hence, you are talking shite.

[SammyG]

So then if you read my previous posts you will see that income is not dependent on ticket sales, hence, you are talking shite.

For the third time, those are PWCs figures not mine, so how can I be talking shite?

[Donagh]

So then if you read my previous posts you will see that income is not dependent on ticket sales, hence, you are talking shite.

For the third time, those are PWCs figures not mine, so how can I be talking shite?

You are the one saying there'll be £100 tickets

[SammyG]

So then if you read my previous posts you will see that income is not dependent on ticket sales, hence, you are talking shite.

For the third time, those are PWCs figures not mine, so how can I be talking shite?

You are the one saying there'll be £100 tickets

No PWC are saying that, I'm just pointing it out. Read the report.

[Donagh]

So then if you read my previous posts you will see that income is not dependent on ticket sales, hence, you are talking shite.

For the third time, those are PWCs figures not mine, so how can I be talking shite?

You are the one saying there'll be £100 tickets

No PWC are saying that, I'm just pointing it out. Read the report.

Then for the second time show me where they say there will be £100 tickets.

[Evil Genius]

It's very amusing to watch the reaction to the proposed DB over on OWC. It doesn't matter anymore that it's not within walking distance of the city centre or that there are no pubs of restaurants nearby, so long as there's no Fenians about they're all happy. Just confirms what we all knew in the first place.

Simply untrue misrepresentation of the debate over the Maze/Danny Blanchflower Stadium - as I'm sure you know, really.

First and foremost, the fans are universally pleased that the Maze may be stopped, for a variety of reasons - wrong location, wrong design, waste of taxes and economic unfeasibility being the chief ones.

As regards the possible replacement at DB, this is generally seen as an improvement, both because it is in Belfast (location), it will be purpose-built (design), it will be much cheaper (taxes) and it makes better economic sense, since it will not just be a stadium for internationals, but it will have an anchor tenant (Glentoran), could/should house the IFA HQ and also host the NI football academy.

That said, there remain potential problems, some or all of which might even stymie the proposal. First of all, road access may be difficult (though not rail). Planning permission may present a problem. The proximity to Belfast George Best Airport might also cause difficulties. Also, there aren't too many "watering holes" in the immediate vicinity. All of these have been referred to by posters, but since the overall package is infinitely better, from soccer's point of view, the proposal has found favour overall.

Not one single poster has mentioned anything about "fenians", or anything like it and I, for one, resent deeply that bigoted and offensive slur from you.

Then again, I shouldn't be surprised by you anymore, since when you conclude something like: "Just confirms what we all knew in the first place", it invarariably means "Just confirms me in my prejudices"....

[Main Street]

In the document Sammy offered as evidence of £100 ticket prices, PWC are calculating income from regular ticket sales, corporate boxes, premium seats, sponsorship, merchandise catering, naming rights, car parking.

Operating revenue calculated from regular ticket sales are based on current pricing models.

[Donagh]

In the document Sammy offered as evidence of £100 ticket prices, PWC are calculating income from regular ticket sales, corporate boxes, premium seats, sponsorship, merchandise catering, naming rights, car parking.

Operating revenue calculated from regular ticket sales are based on current pricing models.

I just seen that. From what I can see on p79, they only need to raise £1.3 million per year through standard ticket sales.

[Evil Genius]

In the document Sammy offered as evidence of £100 ticket prices, PWC are calculating income from regular ticket sales, corporate boxes, premium seats, sponsorship, merchandise catering, naming rights, car parking.

Operating revenue calculated from regular ticket sales are based on current pricing models.

I think it fair to say that Sammy's £100 per ticket price may be overstated since it doesn't take account of these factors. However, since the PWC Report makes so many other questionable assumptions and assertions which will affect the economic viability of the project, imo he's not going to be too far off the mark.

First and foremost amongst these is the idea there will be 23 major events per annum. These have recently been widely reported as follows:
"It was working on the basis that the Maze venue would host 23 major sporting and music events in a year and attract just under 500,000 paying spectators.
The stadium would accommodate six or seven Northern Ireland football matches, five or six GAA matches and three Ulster rugby games each year."
http://www.breakingnews.ie/archives/2008/0219/ireland/mheysngbkfid/

Taking soccer first. We never stage more than 4 or 5 home international matches, including friendlies, in any one calendar year and due to club demands, there is no capacity to expand it. For non-international matches, only the Irish Cup Final draws anyway notable crowds.

As regards rugby, UR has said it is only interested in hosting Heineken Cup matches there. In recent years they have barely filled Ravenhill for their three HC matches (prior to elimination), indeed, there is a strong chance they might not even qualify in future years!

And you can all tell me whether the GAA has six Ulster matches which are too big for Casement, Healy Pk etc, too small for Croke and inappropriate for other reasons, for the similarly sized Clones. Personally, I doubt it.

But even if you accept the upper figures from PWC, this still adds up to a maximum of just 16 events p.a. This leaves 7 other sporting, or musical events to meet their projection. As regards other sports, I can't think of any which would be likely to draw decent crowds on a regular basis.

Which means up to seven concerts per year required. Strangely, not one single promoter has expressed the slightest interest in the Maze. Which is hardly surprising, since it falls between the two stools of being too big for most regular events, for which the large indoor arenas cater, yet too small for the super stadium events (Stones, U2 etc), for which Lansdowne, Croke, Slane etc cater. Also, it is an outdoor venue, which means it is unsuitable for at 4-5 months each year. That would mean one gig per month during the season. Concert goers have only so much money (and enthusiasm) available and besides, the bands who might suit only tour so often and then they don't always include Ireland in their Itinerary (or have only one venue/location in Ireland, usually Dublin).

As for the rest - "corporate boxes, premium seats, sponsorship, merchandise catering, naming rights, car parking" - the success or otherwise of sales and recipts from these all follow directly from the calibre and popularity of the events being staged. And as I've argued above, companies and sponsors etc are not likely to commit to a venue which is struggling to persuade ordinary punters to fill seats in sufficient numbers, on a sufficient number of occasions.

Therefore, my prediction is that if the stadium ever did get built, the price printed on the tickets might not be near £100, but that is what they will surely cost - the two ought to be the same, but in the crazy world of Government/PWC economics, sadly they aren't.  

Still, whatever else he is, and irrespective of his other concerns over the Maze, Peter Robinson is not stupid; I'm increasingly hopeful that he will see that the figures don't stack up and pull the plug before any more millions of taxpayers money are wasted on this White Elephant.

[thejuice]

hopeful that he will see that the figures don't stack up and pull the plug before any more millions of taxpayers money are wasted on this White Elephant.

.......anyone remember Stadium Ireland/Bertie Bowl? how much did that stadium cost without a sod being turned?

[take_yer_points]

I haven't read too much into this but can someone let me know who the GAA are interested in this stadium at all when we have so many others that we can use?

Also, as for the "no Fenians about"  comment relating to Blanchflower stadium - that's my home soccer pitch and never had a problem there at all!  (Hence I'm against this alternative to the Maze!!)

[Donagh]

Also, as for the "no Fenians about"  comment relating to Blanchflower stadium - that's my home soccer pitch and never had a problem there at all!  (Hence I'm against this alternative to the Maze!!)

That was in reference to the GAA saying the site is unacceptable.

[Evil Genius]

Also, as for the "no Fenians about"  comment relating to Blanchflower stadium - that's my home soccer pitch and never had a problem there at all!  (Hence I'm against this alternative to the Maze!!)

That was in reference to the GAA saying the site is unacceptable.

Total horseshit! You directly accused OWC fans of being "happy" to overlook distance and scarcity of bars, restaurants etc around DB Park, since "there's no Fenians about" (a complete invention  of yours, btw, since no-one on OWC ever posted anything of the sort)

Here is your exact quotation:
"It's very amusing to watch the reaction to the proposed DB over on OWC. It doesn't matter anymore that it's not within walking distance of the city centre or that there are no pubs of restaurants nearby, so long as there's no Fenians about they're all happy. Just confirms what we all knew in the first place"

Your bigoted and offensive post was nothing whatever to do with the GAA's attitude to any stadium anywhere in Belfast, never mind the DB and seeing as it was only just after 10 o'clock this morning, so you can hardly pretend you had forgotten what you posted.

Disgraceful.

[snatter]

I haven't read too much into this but can someone let me know who the GAA are interested in this stadium at all when we have so many others that we can use?

Also, as for the "no Fenians about"  comment relating to Blanchflower stadium - that's my home soccer pitch and never had a problem there at all!  (Hence I'm against this alternative to the Maze!!)

Because most of them are crap.
Clones - 38 k capacity, 6k covered and seated? and in the wrong location
Casement 35 k - 2k covered and seated? and no room to develop

The govt were proposing to build a 40k all seated, all covered, state of the art, gaelic games sized stadium.
And it would have cost us sweet fa in comparison to building anything even remotely close ourselves.

The GAA is still committed to building one higher quality stadium in Ulster - 40k plus, two thirds seated and covered (see strategic review report).
If this sinks, we'll have to dip into our pockets a hell of a lot more.

Meanwhile, the spongers supreme in the IFA will probably be gifted a site by BCC, and on a head by head attendance basis, will get proportionately more funding from the govt than we'll get.

[his holiness nb]

Total horseshit! You directly accused OWC fans of being "happy" to overlook distance and scarcity of bars, restaurants etc around DB Park, since "there's no Fenians about" (a complete invention  of yours, btw, since no-one on OWC ever posted anything of the sort)

Here is your exact quotation:
"It's very amusing to watch the reaction to the proposed DB over on OWC. It doesn't matter anymore that it's not within walking distance of the city centre or that there are no pubs of restaurants nearby, so long as there's no Fenians about they're all happy. Just confirms what we all knew in the first place"

Your bigoted and offensive post was nothing whatever to do with the GAA's attitude to any stadium anywhere in Belfast, never mind the DB and seeing as it was only just after 10 o'clock this morning, so you can hardly pretend you had forgotten what you posted.

Disgraceful.

Dry your eyes EG 
Just because nobody on OWC came out and said it, doesnt mean some might not be thinking that way.

Considering the bigoted and offensive posts I received on OWC (much worse than Donaghs post), which you didnt condemn btw, your crying on here is a bit ironic.

The OWC is rampant with bigotry, more than I have experienced anywhere else.