Armagh v Cavan Sun 8th June

[Westside]

If you've seen him play a good bit then what games have you seen him dominate midfield or play very well in?

He's had lots of faith invested in him, been on the team since he was 19, he's now 24. He owned a midfield jersey for much of that.
Not solid enough in possession and doesn't have the vision or passing range to be an 11.

[Throw ball]

Would he move to Armagh?

[Sleater]

From the outside, Givney has always been highly regarded as one of Cavan's best players. Granted I wouldn't be aware of his form this year for Cavan. But surely Cavan should persist with him? He's got huge talent and after watching Cavan in the Div 3 league final they need a wrecking ball of a full forward. Keating doesn't have the peripheral vision or decsion making to be the target man and would surely perform better if he would somone like Givney or big Argue to play off.

[rodney trotter]

Keating when fully fit is an excellent player, has had groin and hamstring trouble which has affected him this year. Made the Dublin Stars team last year so he well capable of getting scores. Givney needs to up his game to get back on the Cavan team.

[omagh_gael]

Cheers lads. Would I be right in thinking he started at midfield for Ulster in the railway cup last year? Or was that the year before?

[Westside]

From the outside, Givney has always been highly regarded as one of Cavan's best players. Granted I wouldn't be aware of his form this year for Cavan. But surely Cavan should persist with him? He's got huge talent and after watching Cavan in the Div 3 league final they need a wrecking ball of a full forward. Keating doesn't have the peripheral vision or decsion making to be the target man and would surely perform better if he would somone like Givney or big Argue to play off.

Keating is a much better prospect as a full forward, he has some glaring flaws in his game but he's still by far the best for that position in the Cavan team.
I've been a big critic of Keating's decision making, Givney's is equally as bad. He is capable of an amazing high catch or a classy dummy solo and a long range score but he consistently makes simple mistakes throughout the game. You would lose count of the amount of poor passes, 3 meter handpasses in a quick passage of play passed to another players knees, dispossessed after running into contact. At that level you need to be able to do the basics properly 99% of the the time. For me Givney is and has always been a bit overrated.

I don't want to sound like I'm completely dismissing him. He had a decent game against Armagh last year and gave the final ball for a lot of Dunne's scores (albeit with acres of space to aim for) I think perhaps being from a Junior Club he has been too accustomed to getting away with the looser elements of his game. That's why I think the move to Ballymun could be good if it goes through.
He has a lot of the attributes to make a very useful player but for me he's not reliable enough to make the starting 15 at the moment.

[mylestheslasher]

For me givney has more potential than GMac but his form this year has been such that he seems to have slipped down the pecking order. He is more athletic and has a defensive game. I hope his exclusion gives him a kick up the as I think he could still be a big player for us yet this year.

[Armamike]

There was nothing to suggest from the league performances that Armagh will have the smarts and the game plan to break Cavan down.  The only unknown factor is the return of the injured players and how that might create a different dynamic but a lot of those players are in the backline. From midfield up i just don't see Armagh having the guile to cope with 14 bodies. Obviously hope i'm badly wrong.

[rodney trotter]

Cheers lads. Would I be right in thinking he started at midfield for Ulster in the railway cup last year? Or was that the year before?

Last year .. Played Sigerson Final with DIT the day before

[illdecide]

We're certainly a long way away from winning All Irelands that's for sure but i see potential in this Armagh team and we certainly can improve over the next few seasons. This year and every year since about 06-07 is we can't seem to produce a scoring half forward line and when we unearth a few we will have a great we team to build on...we will still be hard to beat none the less...

[armaghniac]

We're certainly a long way away from winning All Irelands that's for sure but i see potential in this Armagh team and we certainly can improve over the next few seasons. This year and every year since about 06-07 is we can't seem to produce a scoring half forward line and when we unearth a few we will have a great we team to build on...we will still be hard to beat none the less...

On the happy pills Illdecide? I could do with some of that optimism, I suspect we may not be at all hard to beat.

[brokencrossbar1]

Gona take a wild stab at the Armagh team, however, choosing 15 from the 19 current outfield players who are fit shall be quite a task

McEvoy
Morgan
Donaghy
Mallon
Kernan
McKeever
Shields
Harold
E. Rafferty
C. Raffert
Dyas
Kernan
Clarke
Forker
Campbell/Carragher


Which leaves the bench cosisting of Vernon, Toner, Moriorty, Campbell/Carragher, McCooey, B.Mallon

Take out Dyas and replace with Charlie and i'd be happy.... Was a big critic of Campbell until this league and he puts in a serious work rate and believe he will come good muchos.....IMVHO Dyas is stil flattering to percieve -- if you watch him track back he cannot put in a meaningful tackle and gives the ball away in 40% of his possession (Fact)....

Lets not forget Paul McKeown and from the above list i'd like to say that going fwd we need Harold and Rafferty (the bowler) to forge a partnership that I can see blooming for years ---we may have to lose a few matches but see this as being a young potential midfield that will develop for years to come............

I see a lot of potential in this team.............. Lets play .............. if we lose we lose but build a focus for the next 5 years and grow as a unit.............. The backbone is strong if we can build it up... Lots of talent all over the pitch but we need to gain expereince and strength............. 2 to 3 lean years perhaps and then BOOM times again

BOOM times again? Are you smoking something?  For a start at least 5 of that current team won't be playing in 4 years time as they will be past it.  I would imgaine 2-3 will not be there as they will be moved on for other reasons.  If there are 5-6 of that team after the lean years I would be very surprised. 

I have said it before and I will say it again,  there needs to be a complete rethink of what is going on in the county and how things are being run.  The Academies are not producing the players that the money/time invested requires.  We lost a big opportunity with 1 AI winning u21 team to build something and now look like losing the same opportunity with the 2009 minor team.  We have many talented footballers but a hotch potch way of doing things which has been very self  serving for some and from what I understand this is continuing.  The focus at all levels needs to be club centric for the next 3-5 years and not county centric and the club structured developed. Then and only then in my view will the talent that is in the county start being successful at county level. 

[illdecide]

We're certainly a long way away from winning All Irelands that's for sure but i see potential in this Armagh team and we certainly can improve over the next few seasons. This year and every year since about 06-07 is we can't seem to produce a scoring half forward line and when we unearth a few we will have a great we team to build on...we will still be hard to beat none the less...

On the happy pills Illdecide? I could do with some of that optimism, I suspect we may not be at all hard to beat.

Well maybe i'm being a we optimistic but we have talent (as BC has just stated) and if we can unearth a few scoring half forwards from somewhere then we'll be a decent team and come Championship time i still think with the current team that we'll not be easy beat.

[regal]

Gona take a wild stab at the Armagh team, however, choosing 15 from the 19 current outfield players who are fit shall be quite a task

McEvoy
Morgan
Donaghy
Mallon
Kernan
McKeever
Shields
Harold
E. Rafferty
C. Raffert
Dyas
Kernan
Clarke
Forker
Campbell/Carragher


Which leaves the bench cosisting of Vernon, Toner, Moriorty, Campbell/Carragher, McCooey, B.Mallon

Take out Dyas and replace with Charlie and i'd be happy.... Was a big critic of Campbell until this league and he puts in a serious work rate and believe he will come good muchos.....IMVHO Dyas is stil flattering to percieve -- if you watch him track back he cannot put in a meaningful tackle and gives the ball away in 40% of his possession (Fact)....

Lets not forget Paul McKeown and from the above list i'd like to say that going fwd we need Harold and Rafferty (the bowler) to forge a partnership that I can see blooming for years ---we may have to lose a few matches but see this as being a young potential midfield that will develop for years to come............

I see a lot of potential in this team.............. Lets play .............. if we lose we lose but build a focus for the next 5 years and grow as a unit.............. The backbone is strong if we can build it up... Lots of talent all over the pitch but we need to gain expereince and strength............. 2 to 3 lean years perhaps and then BOOM times again

Forget about CV at 11. At least Dyas is flattering!

[onefaircounty]

Gona take a wild stab at the Armagh team, however, choosing 15 from the 19 current outfield players who are fit shall be quite a task

McEvoy
Morgan
Donaghy
Mallon
Kernan
McKeever
Shields
Harold
E. Rafferty
C. Raffert
Dyas
Kernan
Clarke
Forker
Campbell/Carragher


Which leaves the bench cosisting of Vernon, Toner, Moriorty, Campbell/Carragher, McCooey, B.Mallon

Take out Dyas ... gives the ball away in 40% of his possession (Fact)....

That simply would not hold up to any type of scrutiny.