Tyrone v Down - Sun 18th May, Omagh

[AZOffaly]

AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare.

AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.

You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.

What I'm saying I suppose, is that if Mickey thinks he can offer something, it would be a big move to oust him, and I'd love to see him in Offaly. Put it like that. I know eaten bread is soon forgotten, but people who say Tyrone would be better off without Harte are making a big statement in my opinion.

[skeog]

god himself couldnt turn offaly around im afraid

[Jinxy]

'You cannot award a free when the ball is out of play,' insists Bannon

Referees' committee turn to Croke Park to help clear up mess after controversial Ulster tie.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/you-cannot-award-a-free-when-the-ball-is-out-of-play-insists-bannon-30287221.html

[AZOffaly]

Says you. We were winning All Irelands when ye were still scraping around Omagh looking for a pump for a ball.

[thewobbler]

AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare.

AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.

You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.

Hardstation this basically boils down then to falling on one or the other side of a fence:

- Since the squad of 2008 began to dismantle, Harte hasn't realistically had the players to challenge against the top 2-3 teams in Ireland, but he managed to continually keep Tyrone above the chasing pack,
- Since 2008, Harte hasn't been able to spot, integrate and improve the players that could see Tyrone beat the top 2-3 sides in Ireland, even though those players are undeniably available to him.

My tuppence is that anyone taking the second stance has an unrealistic sense of self-entitlement. Just 11 years ago, Tyrone had never won Sam, and in truth hadn't even come close more than a couple of times.

[Walter Cronc]

AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare.

AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.

You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.

Hardstation this basically boils down then to falling on one or the other side of a fence:

- Since the squad of 2008 began to dismantle, Harte hasn't realistically had the players to challenge against the top 2-3 teams in Ireland, but he managed to continually keep Tyrone above the chasing pack,
- Since 2008, Harte hasn't been able to spot, integrate and improve the players that could see Tyrone beat the top 2-3 sides in Ireland, even though those players are undeniably available to him.

My tuppence is that anyone taking the second stance has an unrealistic sense of self-entitlement. Just 11 years ago, Tyrone had never won Sam, and in truth hadn't even come close more than a couple of times.

You could also argue that Harte continually refused to refresh the squad post 08. Tyrone have been producing very strong minor squads this last 10-15 years yet Harte only seemed to trust the 97/98 and 01 minor panels. Take last years minor panel that reached the AI final. Is one single player from this (obviously talented) group in the senior set up?

The net result of not bring 19 year olds in is a lot of their younger players (FF line) not looking physically ready for senior football.

[SkillfulBill]

AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare.

AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.

You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.

What I'm saying I suppose, is that if Mickey thinks he can offer something, it would be a big move to oust him, and I'd love to see him in Offaly. Put it like that. I know eaten bread is soon forgotten, but people who say Tyrone would be better off without Harte are making a big statement in my opinion.

The issue is not a case of ''if Mickey thinks he has something to offer he should stay'' it should be what is best for Tyrone football at the moment it looks to me that Tyrone need a change in direction and new thinking. The quality exists in the county and the structures/facilities are already in place there is no reason why a new management team would result in a decline.

[thewobbler]

Don't get me wrong, you can go on too long. 

Pete McGrath would often be mooted as a prime example. It was tough on Pete though: he took on Down in 1990 when there was talent flowing throughout the county but no direction to it, and his job was to harness it - which he did. The next generation just weren't as talented.

But I'd observe that Pete didn't find a way to keep things ticking over, didn't find a way to blood players properly, couldn't find a way to phase old players out. And as a result Down went from winning Ulster Championship matches to being routinely destroyed in a rather short space of time.

Mickey Harte isn't doing that. He's managed to keep Tyrone hugely competitive, while phasing out almost the entire class of 2008. So if the likes of Conor McKenna and Lee Brennan step up to senior football in the next couple of years as they should, then it will be them adding spark to a team that knows how to play championship football.

[rodney trotter]

AI semi, scraping by Monaghan, Meath & Kildare.

AI Semi Final. I don't give a shite if they limped, hopped or scraped there. I bet Antrim would love to have been there, and I know Offaly would. Maybe Mickey does need to shake things up, and maybe he does need to step down if he feels he can't give any more. But if he feels he still has something to offer, I think his record speaks for itself, and Tyrone fans would want to be fairly fecking sure that getting rid of their most successful manager ever, by several miles, was the right thing to do. As seafoid said, you could end up following in the footsteps of Meath and Armagh very quickly, and trying to get back to the top table.

You cannot compare Offaly or Antrim's realistic ambitions with Tyrone's.
AZ, they have not won a single game of championship football against a team that would have been considered an AI contender since 2008. Indeed, most times they have been beaten comfortably enough.

Hardstation this basically boils down then to falling on one or the other side of a fence:

- Since the squad of 2008 began to dismantle, Harte hasn't realistically had the players to challenge against the top 2-3 teams in Ireland, but he managed to continually keep Tyrone above the chasing pack,
- Since 2008, Harte hasn't been able to spot, integrate and improve the players that could see Tyrone beat the top 2-3 sides in Ireland, even though those players are undeniably available to him.

My tuppence is that anyone taking the second stance has an unrealistic sense of self-entitlement. Just 11 years ago, Tyrone had never won Sam, and in truth hadn't even come close more than a couple of times.

You could also argue that Harte continually refused to refresh the squad post 08. Tyrone have been producing very strong minor squads this last 10-15 years yet Harte only seemed to trust the 97/98 and 01 minor panels. Take last years minor panel that reached the AI final. Is one single player from this (obviously talented) group in the senior set up?

The net result of not bring 19 year olds in is a lot of their younger players (FF line) not looking physically ready for senior football.

When Tyrone are not making a big impact at U21 , it is probaly harder for those players to come through that quick. Tyrone have a big number of last years Minor team eligible this year, not sure who he could have brought into the Senior panel this year to be honest. Lee Brennan and Conor McKenna were their 2 best forwards last year, they are Minor this year

[AZOffaly]

As I said, how long do you hold that view for? It appears from what you are saying that he will be the Tyrone manager until he dies if he wants to be.
6 years without a decent championship scalp. Tyrone aren't getting into the championship top tier.

I'd trust the man to know when he feels he can do no more. I think he's earned that. Monaghan were the Ulster Champions when Tyrone beat them.

In 2009, Tyrone played 5 games, won Ulster and were beaten in the AI semi final. They beat Armagh, Derry, Antrim, Kildare and lost to Cork.
In 2010, Tyrone played 4 games, won Ulster and were beaten in the quarters by Dublin. They beat Antrim, Down and Monaghan. (Down got to the AI Final and lost by a point)
in 2011, Tyrone played 6 games, lost to Donegal in the Ulster semi final, Beat Longford, Armagh and Roscommon before losing to Dublin.
In 2012, Tyrone played 4 games, lost to Donegal again in Ulster, beat Roscommon and lost to Kerry.
In 2013, Tyrone again reached an All Ireland Semi Final, first time since 2009. Lost to bogey side Donegal (3 in a row) before beating Offaly, Roscommon, Kildare, Meath and Ulster Champs Monaghan before losing to Mayo.

That amounts to 26 games by my count, winning 69% (18 of 26). Won 2 Ulsters. They reached 2 All Ireland Semi Finals and regularly beat teams like Kildare, Down, Armagh, Roscommon and Monaghan.

I take your point that they've lost to Dublin, Mayo, Donegal (3 times!) Cork and Kerry but overall I'd say that's a good return on a team very much in transition.

[Walter Cronc]

Rodney everyone knows U21 is a load of nonsense anyway

[inroundthesquare]

'You cannot award a free when the ball is out of play,' insists Bannon

Referees' committee turn to Croke Park to help clear up mess after controversial Ulster tie.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/you-cannot-award-a-free-when-the-ball-is-out-of-play-insists-bannon-30287221.html

Ah, John Bannon. He obviously still has it out for Tyrone after he gave one of the worst displays of refereeing I have ever seen against Cork in 2009, and then stood by his decision to give John Miskella a yellow card when asked to review it despite it being a clear strike on Brian McGuigan. The man hasn't a clue.

[BennyHarp]

Its very difficult to abondon the lads who have won All Irelands and who you can trust to perform on the biggest stage. Its great in hindsight to say that he should have just replaced these lads with younger players but how many here would have been happy if in 2010 Mickey suddenly dropped Ricey, Big Joe, Sean Cav, Phillip Jordan, Conor Gormley etc come a big championship game. The fact is we had great players and while they were still great players it was going to be difficult for yonger lads to force their way onto the team. Kerry had the same issue post 1986.

I personally think Mickey has done a great job keeping Tyrone competitive and would trust no other person in the county as much as Mickey to maintain us as a competitive force. 2 Ulster titles and 2 all ireland semi finals and a raft of quarters isnt a bad return since 2008 and the loss of  so many players in a relatively short period of time.

One drawn performance v Down (remember we didnt lose the game) where a few things didnt quite work does not make Mickey a bad manager nor does i signal the end of Tyrone. I shall reserve judgement until this championship season ends. For some lads from Tyrone on here it appears that it cant come quickly enough as they want to get back to club action - which is fair enough, but for me, I expect a much improved Tyrone on Saturday night and I fully expect to be watching them as usual in Croker in August.

[Collie Brolly]

He clearly has issues with Croke park,he is regularly in the papers hammering his fellow former referees.

[AZOffaly]

A team in transition that regularly beats the decent/strong teams, and loses to the very good teams, while winning Ulsters and getting to All Ireland semi finals and quarter finals is not exactly going through a terrible patch.