Protestants and The GAA

[armaghniac]

I don't have a problem with people attending religious services.

Yeah, right.

[Eamonnca1]

I don't have a problem with people attending religious services.

Yeah, right.

Perhaps you're right. I'll re-phrase that. 

I won't stand in the way of anyone attending religious services.

Better?

[armaghniac]

I won't stand in the way of anyone attending religious services.

I won't stand in the way of anyone attending religious services, but I will campaign on GAAboard to have them removed to an inconvenient location out of sight as I am offended by the sight of Catholics.

[Eamonnca1]

I won't stand in the way of anyone attending religious services.

I won't stand in the way of anyone attending religious services, but I will campaign on GAAboard to have them removed to an inconvenient location out of sight as I am offended by the sight of Catholics.

Not quite.  How about:

I won't stand in the way of anyone attending religious services (because actively persecuting religion has the unfortunate side-effect of making people all the more determined to follow it) but I will campaign to have the GAA presented as a neutral environment in which all people of all religious faiths (no matter how delusional) and no religious faith can all feel equally welcome in this great sporting and cultural organization.

[trueblue1234]

Some ridiculous responses to this.  The GAA shouldn't be sending out religion-specific invites to anyone. The GAA should be a neutral organization that all are welcome to be part of no matter where they stand on the political spectrum or religious spectrum. We should be trying to market our games to all comers on their sporting merits, not on the basis of "your religion/cult will have special treatment at the event."  The GAA in my home town of Lurgan would be twice as big if more protestants were involved. 

What the hell has sport got to do with religion anyway?  Imagine a Rugby international being advertised, and as part of the festivities they decide to include an Anglican religious service.  All the Anglicans would love that, wouldn't they?  But what are the non-Anglicans supposed to make of it?  Kinda narrows down your target market, wouldn't you say?

Keep it neutral.

One word, Bollix!!

Just because you hate all aspects of religion doesn't mean everyone does. Should Sharon shannon be banned as well from the half time entertainment as well because some people don't like her music? And you don't really have an option with that one. It's kinda forced on you.
If the Rugby international had an optional mass that people could either attend or not then I don't think anyone would give a flying f%&K. You either attend if your interested or you don't if you're not. It's not part of the game, it's not being forced on anyone.

[Hardy]

We probably shouldn't be surprised that a large proportion of our membership seems to be in favour of ignoring our rules and constitution, given our propensity for anarchy. We are well used to regular calls for various playing rules and other regulations to be ignored when they are inconvenient to a particular situation, or for the often-invoked reason of "common sense", or sometimes for no discernible reason at all.

So people seem to be missing the point here. The point is not about any equivalence between burger vans and religious services. The constitution of the GAA says nothing about burger vans. On the other hand, it does specifically state that "The Association is Anti-Sectarian" (Rule 1.12). Can somebody explain how the promotion of the services of a particular religion as part of an official GAA occasion accords with this rule? It doesn't allow the GAA to promote a Jewish Bar-Mitzvah or a Hindu baptism ceremony. And it doesn't allow us to promote a Catholic mass. Simple. No amount of "Ah but sure, we've always done it" or "sure it's only for convenience" changes the fact that it's in direct contravention of the constitution.

If you're happy with that, fine and we can go on ignoring it and all the other rules we ignore. But at least admit that's what we're doing.  If you're not happy with it and you want official masses at Croke Park and at Congress, you might consider proposing a motion to have this anti-sectarian provision removed from the constitution. That's how it's supposed to work. But if you want us to be non-sectarian, please don't argue for special official consderation for one religion or try to argue that official masses are not special consideration..

The association is also non-party political by rule (Rule 1.11). If Fianna Fáil got permission to erect a Galway Races type tent in the forecourt of the Cusack Stand on All-Ireland Final day, would those who support oifficial masses regard this as being in compliance with the non-party political rule?

[trueblue1234]

Hardy the GAA would only be ignoring the rules if they prevented a Jewish Bar-mitzvah or a hindu service but allowed a Catholic service. If that was the case then yes they have broken the rules. But if the catholic service was the only one that requested involvement then, I don't see what they have broken. They can't force other religions to get involved, but I don't see why this should lead to a restriction on one that does.

[Hardy]

Hardy the GAA would only be ignoring the rules if they prevented a Jewish Bar-mitzvah or a hindu service but allowed a Catholic service. If that was the case then yes they have broken the rules. But if the catholic service was the only one that requested involvement then, I don't see what they have broken. They can't force other religions to get involved, but I don't see why this should lead to a restriction on one that does.

I think that's a very narrow interpretation of the Anti-Sectarian rule and I can't conceive of an interpretation of "anti-sectarian" that allows official promotion of religious services. I don't know the circumstances of the mass tent at the North American finals, as to whether the church requested it or the GAA organised it. If the former, your point may be supportable, though I would still argue that it is in conflict with the spirit, at least, of the rule. Again, I would apply the FF analogy by way of arguing this.

Whatever about that, though, the official mass at Congress is clearly in breach of the rule.

[trueblue1234]

I'd agree that if the GAA organised the tent, then that's clear breach of the rules. To search out one religion over others is out of line, and I also don't know the circumstances regarding who invited who. But i'd disagree on the narrow interpretation bit. I think the GAA would only be in the sectarian area if they either organised the event themselves, which is possible considering the GAA, Or they accepted an offer from the Catholic Church but refused other relilions. If it's a case of the Catholic church were the only religion to make contact then I don't see that as sectarian.

[Hardy]

We're in "angels on the head of a pin" territory, maybe but if FF were the only party to ask for a tent in Croke Park, would it be OK to accommodate them under Rule 1.11?

[trueblue1234]

Yes (As much as I hate to say it). The onus would be on the other parties to request the same.
But as long as it's optional, i.e none FF supporters can walk past without interaction or being harassed then I don't see the problem - As long as they don't allow one party an opportunity but deny another. Then they are in the area of party political.

[The Boy Wonder]

Masses celebrated in Croke Park on AI Final days are not "official" events that are "promoted" by the GAA.
How can anybody credibly claim that the GAA are acting in a bigoted sectarian manner by allowing use of facilities for Mass ?

In my opinion it is nonsense to claim that allowing celebration of Mass on GAA premises contravenes the GAA constitution.

[Eamonnca1]

Well it does.  So there.

[rrhf]

I agree with hardy I think the gaa down south need to put in the hard work being done I the north to make all sectors feel welcome. That is the real picture on the ground up here. If there were 4 different religious festivals or in keeping with yes a big gay pride jamboree in Croke park I couldn't give a flying fcuk, youse southern guys need to sort this out as hardy has said. I'm following hardy on this one. He is the truth a shining light and a prophet in our midst.  Religion is the least of your worries until you sort out the old gay marriage conundrum, the whole sectarian homobhobic lot of yes.

[The Boy Wonder]

rrhf - you're wasted here - you remind me of Joyce.......

[i]....and then I asked him with my eyes to ask again yes and then he asked me would I yes to say yes my mountain flower and first I put my arms around him yes and drew him down to me so he could feel my breasts all perfume yes and his heart was going like mad and yes I said yes I will Yes.[/i]