10 Years Ago Today. Tyrone 0-12 Armagh 0-9.

[Armaghtothebone]

Since 03 Tyrone have won

3 All Ireland seniors
3 All Ireland minors - 1 minor title
1 NFL - 1 NFL (and a Div 2 title)
4 Senior ulsters - 4 Ulsters
2 u21's ulsters - 2 U-21 Ulsters, plus 1 AI U-21
6 minor ulsters - 2 minor Ulsters
Not to mention numerous all irelands at school level.

And you think we are deluded in believing Tyrone are among the Elite footballing counties.

Which other county over the last ten years have a record as comparable from school level to seniors ?

The issue here was about the seniors. But since you ask, I think you'll find Armagh have done just as good, as you can see above. And better, in some grades.

I know for a fact that Dungannon/Cookstown schools include some Armagh/Derry players.

If you call yourselves elite, Armagh aren't too far behind. And a county half the size.

So that's it then we are agreed.

Yous are just 3 all ireland senior titles, 2 all ireland minor titles,  4 ulster minor titles, 3 vocational all irelands and a couple of hogan cup's behind then. Yep by any standards thats comparable.  It's official then Armagh are amomg Gaelic footballs elite.

True, but don't forget that Armagh clubs have won more than half of the ulster club titles won in the last 20 years and over a quarter of all Ireland club titles
Tyrone clubs have won 2 ulster senior titles.

[SkillfulBill]

Since 03 Tyrone have won

3 All Ireland seniors
3 All Ireland minors - 1 minor title
1 NFL - 1 NFL (and a Div 2 title)
4 Senior ulsters - 4 Ulsters
2 u21's ulsters - 2 U-21 Ulsters, plus 1 AI U-21
6 minor ulsters - 2 minor Ulsters
Not to mention numerous all irelands at school level.

And you think we are deluded in believing Tyrone are among the Elite footballing counties.

Which other county over the last ten years have a record as comparable from school level to seniors ?

The issue here was about the seniors. But since you ask, I think you'll find Armagh have done just as good, as you can see above. And better, in some grades.

I know for a fact that Dungannon/Cookstown schools include some Armagh/Derry players.

If you call yourselves elite, Armagh aren't too far behind. And a county half the size.

So that's it then we are agreed.

Yous are just 3 all ireland senior titles, 2 all ireland minor titles,  4 ulster minor titles, 3 vocational all irelands and a couple of hogan cup's behind then. Yep by any standards thats comparable.  It's official then Armagh are amomg Gaelic footballs elite.

True, but don't forget that Armagh clubs have won more than half of the ulster club titles won in the last 20 years and over a quarter of all Ireland club titles
Tyrone clubs have won 2 ulster senior titles.

Proves nothing other than Cross have a greater concentration of the better footballers in their county while other counties have them spread over a greater diversity of clubs. I don't see any other clubs in Armagh even capable of resting the county title from them. A back to back in Tyrone championship is a great achievement never mind a ten in a row.

[BennyCake]

I reckon an equal club scene is good for a county. I'm sure Cross' success has hindered Armaghs chances of success. Cross weren't as dominant from 2000-07, which was Armaghs most dominant period. Coincidence?

[SkillfulBill]

Absolutely nothing coming through - do they have underage teams in Kerry?

Yes, we have underage teams in Kerry. Honourable young lads who don't cheat.
Some things are more important than winning.

Mike I think you need to hold on to that thought, perhaps tattoo it somewhere special.  I think that will become very relevant to Kerry in the years to come. History tells us Kingdoms adventually fall. Kerry have failed to produce any sustained sucess at underage level in the last 10 years. History and tradition means little in the modern era and the inevitable decline will be excruciating for a County so use to so much success. I hope you enjoyed the swan song in 2013 as a semi final spot may well become the ceiling in the years to come.

That sounds like you think Tyrone will always be successful. Your 2008 AI winning minors, theres only two in the current senior squad. That's 5 years later. Where is the other 18 to 20 players? Tyrone haven't been as dominant at u-21 level recently. Thats a crucial age, and can be a great springboard for senior success. We all know underage/school success means nothing, if a decent crop of those lads don't come through into the seniors.

So, look at your own county before criticising others. You've no idea what Kerry are doing at underage. Just because they aren't winning much at minor, don't mean they're doing feck all at underage. Look how quickly Clare senior hurling benefited from a few good years at underage level. It can all change so quickly for a county teams fortunes, one way or another.

Benny, Tyrone have managed to appear in a NFL div 1 final and an All-ireland semi final while in transition remains to be seen how successful Kerry will be in maintaining a top 6 billing as the speed of transition speeds up in the coming years.

[sensethetone]

I reckon an equal club scene is good for a county. I'm sure Cross' success has hindered Armaghs chances of success. Cross weren't as dominant from 2000-07, which was Armaghs most dominant period. Coincidence?

no it was just the joe kernan factor lol

[Cold tea]

I reckon an equal club scene is good for a county. I'm sure Cross' success has hindered Armaghs chances of success. Cross weren't as dominant from 2000-07, which was Armaghs most dominant period. Coincidence?

Yeah because in those 8 years Cross only won 8 Armagh Championships, 3 Ulsters and 2 All-Irelands.   

[sensethetone]

armagh won an AI minor title not so long ago think 09, have any of these guys come through to the senior panel?

[BennyCake]

I reckon an equal club scene is good for a county. I'm sure Cross' success has hindered Armaghs chances of success. Cross weren't as dominant from 2000-07, which was Armaghs most dominant period. Coincidence?

Yeah because in those 8 years Cross only won 8 Armagh Championships, 3 Ulsters and 2 All-Irelands.   

They won Ulster in 03 I think, meaning that's the only year they would have been involved in the AI club after Christmas. Armaghs last of their 3 Ulsters was 06, just before Cross won their next AI.

[Cold tea]

I reckon an equal club scene is good for a county. I'm sure Cross' success has hindered Armaghs chances of success. Cross weren't as dominant from 2000-07, which was Armaghs most dominant period. Coincidence?

Yeah because in those 8 years Cross only won 8 Armagh Championships, 3 Ulsters and 2 All-Irelands.   

They won Ulster in 03 I think, meaning that's the only year they would have been involved in the AI club after Christmas. Armaghs last of their 3 Ulsters was 06, just before Cross won their next AI.

At least you are armed with all the facts. 

[Bensars]

This thread is reminisent of a small child pulling at a parents leg to get attention.

It was 10 years ago......let it go.

[EC Unique]

This thread is reminisent of a small child pulling at a parents leg to get attention.

It was 10 years ago......let it go.

It's good fun seeing the OurMa ones getting wound up again with an odd Kerry bitter in as well.

[Mike Sheehy]

Those Tyrone minors will fade away to nothing or, at best, plug away year after year as Tyrone get dumped out in the qualifiers ..and you know why ? because a negative , cynical philosophy has been drilled into them and they will not be able to adapt to the new, more positive brand of Gaelic football that is emerging.

It was very telling how happy people were to see the Tyrone minors getting beaten by Mayo. There should be a lesson in that for those "coaches" that ply their dark arts in the garvaghey gulag. No doubt they'll have Cavanagh down there giving drills on rugby tackling 

For shame Tyrone, for shame.

[BennyCake]

They won Ulster in 03 I think, meaning that's the only year they would have been involved in the AI club after Christmas. Armaghs last of their 3 Ulsters was 06, just before Cross won their next AI.

At least you are armed with all the facts. 

00 Bellaghy
01 Ballinderry
02 Errigal Ciaran
03 Loup
04 Crossmaglen
05 St Galls
06 Crossmaglen

So, since March 2000 (Cross' 3rd title), Cross players were only involved with the club after the New Year, in 2005 (lost AI semi). They weren't involved again until they won the AI in March 07. A few months later Armagh were out in the 1st round qualifiers.

It proves that when Armagh were strong, Cross weren't as successful in the Club series. Yes they won lots of Armagh titles but they were knocked out of Ulster before Christmas, so they were free to train with Armagh come the new year.

[BennyHarp]

Those Tyrone minors will fade away to nothing or, at best, plug away year after year as Tyrone get dumped out in the qualifiers ..and you know why ? because a negative , cynical philosophy has been drilled into them and they will not be able to adapt to the new, more positive brand of Gaelic football that is emerging.

It was very telling how happy people were to see the Tyrone minors getting beaten by Mayo. There should be a lesson in that for those "coaches" that ply their dark arts in the garvaghey gulag. No doubt they'll have Cavanagh down there giving drills on rugby tackling 

For shame Tyrone, for shame.

I love the image Kerry people have of Tyrone football and what they think goes on at trainings - no wonder their players shit themselves at the sight of the Tyrone shirt. Its also reassuring to see that a new generation of Kerry players have shown that the psychological scars have been passed down to the next generation as they wilted under the Tyrone onslaught in the AI minor quarter final.

Maybe its because they are spooked by their parents. I can just imagine their parents, while they tuck them into bed at night, telling them tales of the big bad Tyrone players and how their use of the dark arts robbed the shiny clean Kerry lads of AI medals in 03, 05 and 08. My advice would be to stop creating the myth around Tyrone, Mikey - you are frightening your youngsters and creating psychological issues that will come back to haunt them and generations of Kerry lads to come.

[Hardy]

Top form on this thread, Mike Sheehy.

The Garvaghy Gulag - lovely.