2013 All Ireland Final: Mayo v Dublin

[bucko]

Really going to take a while to get over this one. Looking at it now in the cold (and slightly more sober!!!) light of day it was really there to be won. Both teams had their dominant periods, us in the first half, Dublin in the second. They made theirs count, we didn't. That's the most basic explanation.
Yet you look at all the small moments that it could have swung on. One more score taken, one less ball given away, one more break that could've gone our way instead of theirs. Cillian's 2 missed frees, Kevin Mc's 2 wides, Keith's Hawkeye call, the free Caff kicked straight to Connolly, Hennelly coming off his line and clattering into Caff for Brogan's goal when he might have been better off staying on his line, the Dublin 45 that had actually gone out off Connolly, an O'Gara push in the back on Caff that he got away with and scored. I think it was Declan Kidney that said it years ago that if you focus on getting enough of the small things right the bigger picture tends to look after itself.
I hope Horan stays, but while he was correct in pointing out our mistakes as a contributing factor, I hope he looks at some of his own decisions also. There are questions about a lot of his tactical and substitution decisions, but the one I think was the most crucial was moving Higgins back as it really de powered our attack. Carolan, while a very good player with a future in this squad, just couldn't compensate for that loss as he doesn't have the positional or defensive sense that Higgins has. Feeney has some of that awareness and is also a highly intelligent footballer, something that was lacking a bit in the end game. I really wonder why he was left on the bench and why Horan had not enough faith in McHale and Keane to come in for Cunniffe.
Anyhow, life goes on. I hope we can learn and rally from Sunday. The only other thing to say is that maybe Lady Luck wasn't smiling on us from a long way out. Our injury list at various times since the start of the year consisted of over half of what would've been first choice players. At no point this year had we all of our first choice forwards fully fit with good game time and form under their belts. Suppose that's just the way it goes.......

[AZOffaly]

That Spailpín article is a bit on the sour side, as I suppose is to be expected. But if you go up to an All Ireland, and don't get a performance from your forwards, then it's not a surprise when people point that out. Jaysus even Mayo people are saying as much.

It would have been more in his line to ask why they didn't get the performance. O'Connor's injury, Freeman's illness and Moran's still rustiness are probably all mitigating factors. But that doesn't explain Alan Dillon and Kevin McLoughlin's display, although in fairness to Dillon he has struggled with knocks too over the years.

Of course it's tiresome, particularly if the believe is that Cillian O'Connor, Moran or Freeman are actually top notch. But they have to prove it on the big stage, and unfortunately for all of them, Sunday was just not going to work out that way, for varying circumstances. Given that, it's hardly surprising that the accepted wisdom is going to remain the same, i.e. that Mayo just dont' have the forwards they need.

[Farrandeelin]

Rumours are rife that Horan had a war of words with Feeney before the game at some stage.

[bucko]

Rumours are rife that Horan had a war of words with Feeney before the game at some stage.

Are we looking at a Paulo di Canio/Sunderland situation??? 

[Jinxy]

That Spailpín article is a bit on the sour side, as I suppose is to be expected. But if you go up to an All Ireland, and don't get a performance from your forwards, then it's not a surprise when people point that out. Jaysus even Mayo people are saying as much.

It would have been more in his line to ask why they didn't get the performance. O'Connor's injury, Freeman's illness and Moran's still rustiness are probably all mitigating factors. But that doesn't explain Alan Dillon and Kevin McLoughlin's display, although in fairness to Dillon he has struggled with knocks too over the years.

Of course it's tiresome, particularly if the believe is that Cillian O'Connor, Moran or Freeman are actually top notch. But they have to prove it on the big stage, and unfortunately for all of them, Sunday was just not going to work out that way, for varying circumstances. Given that, it's hardly surprising that the accepted wisdom is going to remain the same, i.e. that Mayo just dont' have the forwards they need.

I'd have to agree.
None of them would be in the top 10 forwards in the country.

[blanketattack]

I think it was a no-win situation for Cillian O'Connor.
He should have probably kicked it over the bar within 5 seconds of the ref blowing for the free even though it would have meant Dublin players were very close to him, better that than use up 40 seconds as per his usual preparation which refs never add on. However Dublin were winning 95%+ of their own kickouts in the 2nd half so this was unlikely to result in an equaliser.
If he had gone for goal, Dublin would have lined the goal plus would have had a couple of players 7 or 8 yards away from him centrally. Refs never blow up on this technical foul, when by right they should bring the ball to the 14 yard line. For a 14 yard free, the opposition has to stay on the goal-line and if they encroach at all the rules are that it's a penalty. Every 14 yard free I've ever seen, the players encroached before the ball was kicked and I've never ever heard of a penalty been given for this technical foul.
However the likelihood of a goal from a 21 yard  free were virtually none in those circumstance, a slightly better chance was if they could engineer a free on the 14 yard line and do a Meehan on it or just recycle the ball out and knock it in high.

One afterthought, why doesn't anyone just stand directly in front of Cluxton when he's about to do a quick kickout? It would have stopped a good few of the 60 yard kicks to players in space.

[GalwayBayBoy]

That Spailpín article is a bit on the sour side, as I suppose is to be expected.

A bit touchy and over-sensitive alright. Looking for too many perceived slights against Mayo when in reality even the Mayo lads on here I think have said that not enough of their players performed on the day to get them over the line. The "marquee forward" is probably an overused term in general but really it's just a forward that has the ability to deliver on the big day. And Mayo just didn't have one the last day. On another day who knows?

[ballinaman]

That Spailpín article is a bit on the sour side, as I suppose is to be expected. But if you go up to an All Ireland, and don't get a performance from your forwards, then it's not a surprise when people point that out. Jaysus even Mayo people are saying as much.

It would have been more in his line to ask why they didn't get the performance. O'Connor's injury, Freeman's illness and Moran's still rustiness are probably all mitigating factors. But that doesn't explain Alan Dillon and Kevin McLoughlin's display, although in fairness to Dillon he has struggled with knocks too over the years.

Of course it's tiresome, particularly if the believe is that Cillian O'Connor, Moran or Freeman are actually top notch. But they have to prove it on the big stage, and unfortunately for all of them, Sunday was just not going to work out that way, for varying circumstances. Given that, it's hardly surprising that the accepted wisdom is going to remain the same, i.e. that Mayo just dont' have the forwards they need.

I'd have to agree.
None of them would be in the top 10 forwards in the country.

That's fair enough but you have to remember that O'Connor is 21 FFS....Bernard Brogan wasn't a patch on him at same age IMO.
I know it's easy to say what he might/will be like in a few years time now, without actually having produced it the way Brogan has, but IMO he is going to be some footballer in his prime.

[macdanger2]

Was just reading the AFL thread there - if Pearce had been around this year and last, would results have been different??

[AZOffaly]

That Spailpín article is a bit on the sour side, as I suppose is to be expected. But if you go up to an All Ireland, and don't get a performance from your forwards, then it's not a surprise when people point that out. Jaysus even Mayo people are saying as much.

It would have been more in his line to ask why they didn't get the performance. O'Connor's injury, Freeman's illness and Moran's still rustiness are probably all mitigating factors. But that doesn't explain Alan Dillon and Kevin McLoughlin's display, although in fairness to Dillon he has struggled with knocks too over the years.

Of course it's tiresome, particularly if the believe is that Cillian O'Connor, Moran or Freeman are actually top notch. But they have to prove it on the big stage, and unfortunately for all of them, Sunday was just not going to work out that way, for varying circumstances. Given that, it's hardly surprising that the accepted wisdom is going to remain the same, i.e. that Mayo just dont' have the forwards they need.

I'd have to agree.
None of them would be in the top 10 forwards in the country.

That's fair enough but you have to remember that O'Connor is 21 FFS....Bernard Brogan wasn't a patch on him at same age IMO.
I know it's easy to say what he might/will be like in a few years time now, without actually having produced it the way Brogan has, but IMO he is going to be some footballer in his prime.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is sometimes you just have to grin and bear it. If you really believe that O'Connor, Freeman, Dillon, Moran etc are as good as that, or have the potential to be, then that's great. But until they actually win an All Ireland and play well doing it, some lads are always going to cast aspertions that way. It's just the way it is.

Kildare have the same issue with the 'natural footballers' thing. Kildare fans will say that's nonsense, and I believe they have some great players, natural forwards etc, but until they are standing there with a trophy and have given a performance in a huge game, it's always going to be trotted out.

[ballinaman]

That Spailpín article is a bit on the sour side, as I suppose is to be expected. But if you go up to an All Ireland, and don't get a performance from your forwards, then it's not a surprise when people point that out. Jaysus even Mayo people are saying as much.

It would have been more in his line to ask why they didn't get the performance. O'Connor's injury, Freeman's illness and Moran's still rustiness are probably all mitigating factors. But that doesn't explain Alan Dillon and Kevin McLoughlin's display, although in fairness to Dillon he has struggled with knocks too over the years.

Of course it's tiresome, particularly if the believe is that Cillian O'Connor, Moran or Freeman are actually top notch. But they have to prove it on the big stage, and unfortunately for all of them, Sunday was just not going to work out that way, for varying circumstances. Given that, it's hardly surprising that the accepted wisdom is going to remain the same, i.e. that Mayo just dont' have the forwards they need.

I'd have to agree.
None of them would be in the top 10 forwards in the country.

That's fair enough but you have to remember that O'Connor is 21 FFS....Bernard Brogan wasn't a patch on him at same age IMO.
I know it's easy to say what he might/will be like in a few years time now, without actually having produced it the way Brogan has, but IMO he is going to be some footballer in his prime.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is sometimes you just have to grin and bear it. If you really believe that O'Connor, Freeman, Dillon, Moran etc are as good as that, or have the potential to be, then that's great. But until they actually win an All Ireland and play well doing it, some lads are always going to cast aspertions that way. It's just the way it is.

Kildare have the same issue with the 'natural footballers' thing. Kildare fans will say that's nonsense, and I believe they have some great players, natural forwards etc, but until they are standing there with a trophy and have given a performance in a huge game, it's always going to be trotted out.

Don't get me wrong, agree with you. Under no illusions what we have to do.

[deiseach]

I think it was a no-win situation for Cillian O'Connor.

I'm reminded of the line I read attributed to George Best as Roberto Baggio stepped up to take what was ultimately the decisive penalty in the 1994 World Cup. "I'd hate to be in his shoes," says George's drinking buddy. "I'd LOVE to be in his shoes," says George. Cillian O'Connor couldn't lose by going for goal as far as I'm concerned. It was highly unlikely he would have scored and no one would have thought less of him if he failed. If he pulled it off though . . .

[J OGorman]

I think it was a no-win situation for Cillian O'Connor.

I'm reminded of the line I read attributed to George Best as Roberto Baggio stepped up to take what was ultimately the decisive penalty in the 1994 World Cup. "I'd hate to be in his shoes," says George's drinking buddy. "I'd LOVE to be in his shoes," says George. Cillian O'Connor couldn't lose by going for goal as far as I'm concerned. It was highly unlikely he would have scored and no one would have thought less of him if he failed. If he pulled it off though . . .

oh sailor....

[Hound]

I wouldnt worry about Mayo not being back next year.

Try a few new lads in the league, keep the others ticking over. Its hard to envisage any situation where they wouldnt be one of the 8 involved in the bank holiday weekend for the quarter-finals, and at that stage they'll have as good a chance as anyone. I'd pick the best one or two of the minors and see how they fare. The Dubs after devastating defeats in 1991, 1992, 1993 and 1994 came back in 95 and won it. Brash minor added, who was never the best footballer in the world, but just added that little spark, that little something different that played a huge part in getting them over the line.

While I'm sure other challengers for Sam will emerge, its probable that the Dubs will still be the team to beat, and no doubt that Dublin 2014 will be better than Dublin 2012, but bound to be a slight edge gone off them as holders.

[deiseach]

I think it was a no-win situation for Cillian O'Connor.

I'm reminded of the line I read attributed to George Best as Roberto Baggio stepped up to take what was ultimately the decisive penalty in the 1994 World Cup. "I'd hate to be in his shoes," says George's drinking buddy. "I'd LOVE to be in his shoes," says George. Cillian O'Connor couldn't lose by going for goal as far as I'm concerned. It was highly unlikely he would have scored and no one would have thought less of him if he failed. If he pulled it off though . . .

oh sailor....

. . . he'd never need to pull it off again.