2013 All Ireland Final: Mayo v Dublin

[sans pessimism]

The team that beats Dublin will win Sam.

The team that beats Mayo will win Sam

The team that beats Kerry will win Sam

Well someone had to do it

only one of those 3 statements is true at the moment

[Mayo4Sam]

There seems to be some rose tinted glasses WRT Andys displays last year and the year before.
Yes he won everything that went into him but not because he was 5 yards ahead of his man, he was doing what Conroy did on Sunday, using his body to keep the defender off while gathering the ball in. In Andys case a lot of the time at the second time of asking.
I think he's very close to that, we saw on Sunday a couple of times, one in particular in the first half where Dillon kicked it down the line to him and he tipped it down to himself but over the sideline, last year he would have kept it in. Small margins but things that can be rectified.

As for Dillon, talk of him getting dropped is pure nonsense, he has the composure to kick a point or a foot pass when its needed.
Ditto for McLoughlin, FFS one bad game in three years.

COC will start, definitely and without doubt. This talk of him coming in with 15 mins left, so the scenario is that we need him, he comes on, shoulder pops, where are we then? He'll start, if it goes it goes, Mayo will have plan B, which will hopefully involve Conroy and not Varley.

As for player welfare, well thats the greatest load of bollix I ever heard and if COC was to allow Horan to leave him off that give him the chance then he wouldnt deserve to be there. Theres not a man who has played football that would miss an all-ireland final on that basis. And the likes of Syferus can take the high road but we all know that the strongest voice for COC playing in the final will be COC himself.

The win at all costs mentality in a nutshell. Trying to hide behind the transparent shroud of 'it's the players/management's decision' as if they're acting in the interests of the players' health and not some blinkered attempt a winning an important match. They do not know themselves best, in fact in many cases they haven't a clue, just look at Alan Brogan appearing v. Mayo last September and not seeing the field again for now going on 12 months. Perspective and objectivity is lacking in almost all situations like this.

There's a lot of weak managers who don't have what it takes to make a big call like dropping a seriously injured palyer for a final even when they're telling him endlessly that they want to play. From everything I've seen about Horan I expect more than him taking the easy out on this one.

What does it say to lads like Conroy, Doherty, Coen or Varley? You're so shite even a fella with three shoulder injuries in one year (and someone who is going to need surgery one way or another when his season ends) is so superior to you that he still starts over you even when you're at 100%? That'd be a punch in the face to the idea Mayo have a strong panel - something Horan himself was bloviating about in media interviews very recently - and would raise questions in a lot of players' heads as to what the point of them being there is.

I would say this is a key bit. If COC dislocates it again on AIF day what is the real damage, probably unknown, likely not a huge amount on whats done already. So you weight up the pros and the cons.
Positives - He plays, all goes well, he kicks his frees, goes hard for every ball, mayo win or lose, COC goes for surgery week after all-ireland
Negatives - he plays, first tackle he hits the ground, shoulder gone, Mayo revert to plan B, COC goes for surgery week after all-ireland
Negatives - he doesnt play, COC goes for surgery week after all-ireland

All three scenarios end in the same result for COC, maybe scenario two results in more serious damage but i'm pretty sure any football would opt to play.

On a more severe version of the same thing, the Goldman dilemma, "whether they would take a drug that would guarantee them overwhelming success in sport, but cause them to die after five years. In his research approximately half the athletes responded that they would take the drug"

[Captain Obvious]

The team that beats Dublin will win Sam.

The team that beats Mayo will win Sam

The team that beats Kerry will win Sam

Well someone had to do it

only one of those 3 statements is true at the moment

The team that scores the most in the All Ireland final will win Sam.

[seafoid]

If O'Connor could master the art of popping that shoulder back in like Martin Riggs in Leathal Weapon he'd be sorted.

On a more serious note, Andy was beaten to at least 3 balls despite being favourite when the ball was kicked. Although his presence on the teams and experience is invaluable and he will start. Varley who I've always had my doubts over, maybe it's his style of kicking, had a shocker. On watching it again he had 3 bad wides, turned over primary possession cheaply inside the 21 at least twice and that missed free at the end summed him up.

After reading Dara O'Shea's piece during the week, I think we'd be better off meeting Dublin that Kerry in the final. Despite Dublin being a superior team, I'd hope that we'd have no fear of them as we would have of seeing the Kerry jersey again.

I think I'd prefer Kerry. Very few of this team played against Kerry in 04 or 06 - Dillon, Moran, Higgins? So there shouldn't be a sense of dread when they see the Kerry jersey.
We'd have a better chance of running Kerry ragged than we would the Dubs - they seem to be as fit as us, and probably have as much if not more pace in their team.

It would be fitting for Mayo to end the long wait by beating Kerry in the final.
As long as they start grinding as soon as possible they should be able to win the final.

[muppet]

Will you stop FFS that's a complete crock of shite. For starters, Horan will, like all managers, take his lead from the medical staff on this. If they say he could play then he'd sit down with Cillian and the medical support staff to discuss things and get the players thoughts on it considering the risks. Once Horan has this information he'll discuss the optionswith his selectors and make a decision based on what's best for Mayo.

It's a potential shoulder dislocation not a bloody charge across no mans land, O'Connor will be fine down the line either way.

As for the other players, Jesus wept!!! They'll be fine, they all know Cillian is a starter when fit or near it. None of them will be crying into their frosties because Horan starts a less than 100% fit O'Connor before them. Though your whole post screams 'I've never spent much time in football dressing rooms or training pitches'.

If you think managers listen to medical advice religiously I really don't know what to say.

Particularly in high-pressure, big-stakes matches they are far more likely to chance their arm on a key player than that the most prudent course. That isn't how sport has ever operated and I doubt the Mayo in 2013 isn't the exception to the rule.

It takes a smart man to know when the game is up. You can rely on the player themselves to tell you they're ok or want to play. The manager is the authority figure and loves to play the role of a leader but it's in situations like this when you find out how much of a managers' rhetoric is hot air and how much is the real thing.

COC shouldn't be let near a game of football again in 2013, and he definitely shouldn't be starting the most intense game on the GAA calendar.

Oh da P'rose & Blue of Rossies,
I can see it still,
Its soft and soggy bogmen,
Seek their woolly thrills,
Still whinging about dear Ballagh,
And Andy Moran too,
And bold Syf is their oracle,
But he hasn't got a clue,
Hasn't got a clue!

[Rossfan]

Living on the love of Roscommon People
Smiles on the heart of the Roscommon fan
Fergie's giving us a dream to cling to
and Evans will bring us Sam as soon as he can.

Free the Ballaghrossies

[moysider]

Will you stop FFS that's a complete crock of shite. For starters, Horan will, like all managers, take his lead from the medical staff on this. If they say he could play then he'd sit down with Cillian and the medical support staff to discuss things and get the players thoughts on it considering the risks. Once Horan has this information he'll discuss the optionswith his selectors and make a decision based on what's best for Mayo.

It's a potential shoulder dislocation not a bloody charge across no mans land, O'Connor will be fine down the line either way.

As for the other players, Jesus wept!!! They'll be fine, they all know Cillian is a starter when fit or near it. None of them will be crying into their frosties because Horan starts a less than 100% fit O'Connor before them. Though your whole post screams 'I've never spent much time in football dressing rooms or training pitches'.

If you think managers listen to medical advice religiously I really don't know what to say.

Particularly in high-pressure, big-stakes matches they are far more likely to chance their arm on a key player than that the most prudent course. That isn't how sport has ever operated and I doubt the Mayo in 2013 isn't the exception to the rule.

It takes a smart man to know when the game is up. You can rely on the player themselves to tell you they're ok or want to play. The manager is the authority figure and loves to play the role of a leader but it's in situations like this when you find out how much of a managers' rhetoric is hot air and how much is the real thing.

COC shouldn't be let near a game of football again in 2013, and he definitely shouldn't be starting the most intense game on the GAA calendar.

Oh da P'rose & Blue of Rossies,
I can see it still,
Its soft and soggy bogmen,
Seek their woolly thrills,
Still whinging about dear Ballagh,
And Andy Moran too,
And bold Syf is their oracle,
But he hasn't got a clue,
Hasn't got a clue!

Class!! Respect!

[moysider]

Living on the love of Roscommon People
Smiles on the heart of the Roscommon fan
Fergie's giving us a dream to cling to
and Evans will bring us Sam as soon as he can.

Free the Ballaghrossies

Nah. Paul Young ffs.

Why is this on a Mayo AI thread?

[sans pessimism]

Living on the love of Roscommon People
Smiles on the heart of the Roscommon fan
Fergie's giving us a dream to cling to
and Evans will bring us Sam as soon as he can.

Free the Ballaghrossies

Nah. Paul Young ffs.

Why is this on a Mayo AI thread?

cos wannabies will do whatever they can to join the bandwagon, Moy

[maigheo]

If the ros minors lose on sunday this thread will be swarming with the rossies trying to annoy everybody and will probably hit 100 pages by the end of next week.

[Syferus]

If the ros minors lose on sunday this thread will be swarming with the rossies trying to annoy everybody and will probably hit 100 pages by the end of next week.

The premise is faulty. We'll wreck you Rhubarbs even more if we make it to the AI final.

A riposte:

I want another slice of rhubarb tart.
I want another lovely slice.
I'm not disparaging the blueberry pie
But rhubarb tart is oh so very nice.
A rhubarb what?
A rhubarb tart!
A whatbarb tart?
A rhubarb tart!
I want another slice of rhubarb tart!
   
The principles of modern philosophy
Were postulated by Descartes.
Discarding everything he wasn't certain of
He said 'I think therefore I am a rhubarb tart'.
A rhubarb what?
A rhubarb tart!
A Rene who?
Rene Descartes!
Poor nut he thought he was a rhubarb tart!
 
A rhubarb tart has fascinated all the poets.
Especially the immortal bard.
He made Richard the Third to call out on Bosworth Field:
'My kingdom for a slice of rhubarb tart!'
Immortal what?
Immortal tart!
A rhubarb what?
A rhubarb bard!
As rhymes go that is really pretty bad!

[blanketattack]

The team that beats Dublin will win Sam.

The team that beats Mayo will win Sam

The team that beats Kerry will win Sam

Well someone had to do it

only one of those 3 statements is true at the moment

The only team that can beat Mayo is themselves. It's an over used cliche in sport but surely if the only team that can beat Mayo is Mayo, then Mayo still win Sam!

[Mayo4Sam]

The team that beats Dublin will win Sam.

The team that beats Mayo will win Sam

The team that beats Kerry will win Sam

Well someone had to do it

only one of those 3 statements is true at the moment

The only team that can beat Mayo is themselves. It's an over used cliche in sport but surely if the only team that can beat Mayo is Mayo, then Mayo still win Sam!

You're in a black hole there Blanket, its like dividing by 0, if Mayo beat themselves then Dublin/Kerry also beat mayo and then both win but that cant happen.
But if no one beats mayo then Mayo win

[bucko]

The main question for Horan re COC is does he resign himself to being without him and plan appropriately, or try and factor him in in some shape or form with the risk that it becomes a distraction to preparations and that it could backfire in some shape or form on the day itself, like Shefflin's knee injury with Kilkenny in the 2010 AI hurling final ? I suppose it will boil down to whether or not Horan believes they can win without O'Connor.

[AMayoFan]

The main question for Horan re COC is does he resign himself to being without him and plan appropriately, or try and factor him in in some shape or form with the risk that it becomes a distraction to preparations and that it could backfire in some shape or form on the day itself, like Shefflin's knee injury with Kilkenny in the 2010 AI hurling final ? I suppose it will boil down to whether or not Horan believes they can win without O'Connor.

I think Mayo game plan with COC is pretty much nailed.  So the time between now and All-Ireland day should be spent working on playing without him.