religious education in schools..

[The Iceman]

the state does not nurture the roman catholic church?? the taxpayer provides them with buildings,teachers etc to teach their faith. were i a couch hopping scientoligist i'd be asking why not my religion as well?

The education taught in these schools as has been pointed out is basically the same as other state run schools. What these schools maintain is a Catholic ethos for which in today's Ireland you can read Irish ethos. There are very few schools in the entire country where Clergy teach. In fact I think st. Patrick's in Armagh is the only one in the country with a Priest as Head Master. Religion is taught in these schools as another subject, which students can choose to drop when it comes to G.C.S.E level. there are no additional religion classes on offer and religion is not taught during other lessons. So I'm still unclear from your answer how the state is nurturing the Catholic Faith

the provision of these facilities to the catholic faith and not other religions IS a privilege.

There are many other schools throughout the country who maintain a Protestant / Christian ethos. These schools are also funded by the state and offer nothing different in terms of academics that "Catholic" schools but different sporting opportunities based on cultural ethos.

he is concerned with the preservation of HIS faith through the status quo.

Don't see anything wrong with that and would expect nothing less from a bishop trying to Shepherd the people

bishop mckeown benefits from sectarianism?? heres how.. i know a man who moved to london in the sixties a country gent he found a church near his work. he attended "mass" there for nearly 3mths before someone told him he was infact going to a church of england. thats how mr mckeown benefits from sectarianism that type of sceneario could never happen here suchn is the level of heightened sectarianism. mr mc keowns position is helped by the perceived treat to the existance of his faith by the other christian faiths.

Not a great example. Here's why. The man who moved to London if he really was a Catholic should have known he wasn't at Mass. If he was paying attention he would have seen that there was no tabernacle, no sanctuary light, he would have wondered why there was no crucifix or no statues. He might have wondered to himself why the consecration didn't happen, the main part of the Mass. I don't think it's fair to make that assessment on all Catholics based on one "Catholic" who obviously doesn't fully participate in the teachings of the Church.

as for an introduction to god.. as a child i was told that 'god is everywhere...' 'even in your schoolbag' if this is infact the case why should anyone go looking for him? mr mc keowns only concern is that his dwindling congregation will dissappear completely.. since catholic schools are his main and mostly his only way of maintaining his numbers any talk of more intergration by peter robinson makes him a threat and someone to attack. i agree with robbo. if this place is to move on our children need to meet and grow up together as schoolmates.

God is spiritually present everywhere, that is correct. The Catholic church teaches that God is fully present (body, soul and divinity) in the Holy Eucharist. You can't meet him anywhere else (in that way) but in the Catholic Church.
Countries all over the world have faith based schools and universities. They are packed. Their protestant neighbours have no problems with them, because their politics are the same.

[ardchieftain]

So Iceman, what you're saying is that i have to bring my schoolbag into a chapel in order to find god? It's all terribly confusing this religion carry on.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

So Iceman, what you're saying is that i have to bring my schoolbag into a chapel in order to find god? It's all terribly confusing this religion carry on.

He also thinks you need to be Catholic to be Irish, a church of the long gone Roman Empire and a representative of a foreign and hostile state, The Vatican City. A church imposed on us by another extinct and formally hostile foreign state, England.

The Roman Catholic Church, the church that would have us ruled by London and Rome.

[Syferus]

Father Horan seem to be doing some good things for ye, you may have to give the ould faith a second chance.

It was a priest that cursed ye to wander the Earth All-Irelandless, after all.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

It was a priest that cursed ye to wander the Earth All-Irelandless, after all.

Superstitious rubbish.

[Syferus]

It was a priest that cursed ye to wander the Earth All-Irelandless, after all.

Superstitious rubbish.

It's still holdin' true, though. Might have a fair wait ahead of you yet, the Flying Doctor looks in top form.

[Ulick]

So Iceman, what you're saying is that i have to bring my schoolbag into a chapel in order to find god? It's all terribly confusing this religion carry on.

He also thinks you need to be Catholic to be Irish, a church of the long gone Roman Empire and a representative of a foreign and hostile state, The Vatican City. A church imposed on us by another extinct and formally hostile foreign state, England.

The Roman Catholic Church, the church that would have us ruled by London and Rome.

No you and Muppet are deliberately misrepresenting what he is saying. The facts on the ground are that CCMS schools incorporate a more cultural Irish ethos in a similar way to the state schools reflecting British cultural norms. This is because that since partition the body overseeing the Catholic sector were the only statutory body in the state which maintained or permitted some degree of Irish identify - merely because the Church was organised on a 32 country basis. If it wasn't for the Catholc Church and the schools northerners wouldl all be cheering on "our boys" and waving union jacks at jubbilee street parties. Times have moved on yes and a new setup is required but the Catholic Church deserves some credit for allowing the space of Irish culture to survive in the north when it would have been easy to lump in on the side of the state as it did in so many other countries.

[Ulick]

PS if you don't believe any of that ask yourself why the DUP are so keen to get rid of the Maintained and Other Maintained sectors.

[artisan2010]

So Iceman, what you're saying is that i have to bring my schoolbag into a chapel in order to find god? It's all terribly confusing this religion carry on.

He also thinks you need to be Catholic to be Irish, a church of the long gone Roman Empire and a representative of a foreign and hostile state, The Vatican City. A church imposed on us by another extinct and formally hostile foreign state, England.

The Roman Catholic Church, the church that would have us ruled by London and Rome.

No you and Muppet are deliberately misrepresenting what he is saying. The facts on the ground are that CCMS schools incorporate a more cultural Irish ethos in a similar way to the state schools reflecting British cultural norms. This is because that since partition the body overseeing the Catholic sector were the only statutory body in the state which maintained or permitted some degree of Irish identify - merely because the Church was organised on a 32 country basis. If it wasn't for the Catholc Church and the schools northerners wouldl all be cheering on "our boys" and waving union jacks at jubbilee street parties. Times have moved on yes and a new setup is required but the Catholic Church deserves some credit for allowing the space of Irish culture to survive in the north when it would have been easy to lump in on the side of the state as it did in so many other countries.

Agree 100 per cent, Catholic schools in the north contributed significantly to the maintenance of the Irish identity during a period whe it was treated at best as "other" and at worst to be discriminated against and subverted at every opportunity.  Thank god the nationalist community in the north is now confident in itself and is no longer on its knees.

[johnneycool]

So Iceman, what you're saying is that i have to bring my schoolbag into a chapel in order to find god? It's all terribly confusing this religion carry on.

He also thinks you need to be Catholic to be Irish, a church of the long gone Roman Empire and a representative of a foreign and hostile state, The Vatican City. A church imposed on us by another extinct and formally hostile foreign state, England.

The Roman Catholic Church, the church that would have us ruled by London and Rome.

No you and Muppet are deliberately misrepresenting what he is saying. The facts on the ground are that CCMS schools incorporate a more cultural Irish ethos in a similar way to the state schools reflecting British cultural norms. This is because that since partition the body overseeing the Catholic sector were the only statutory body in the state which maintained or permitted some degree of Irish identify - merely because the Church was organised on a 32 country basis. If it wasn't for the Catholc Church and the schools northerners wouldl all be cheering on "our boys" and waving union jacks at jubbilee street parties. Times have moved on yes and a new setup is required but the Catholic Church deserves some credit for allowing the space of Irish culture to survive in the north when it would have been easy to lump in on the side of the state as it did in so many other countries.

Agree 100 per cent, Catholic schools in the north contributed significantly to the maintenance of the Irish identity during a period whe it was treated at best as "other" and at worst to be discriminated against and subverted at every opportunity.  Thank god the nationalist community in the north is now confident in itself and is no longer on its knees.

If there is one thing I will give the Catholic church credit for it is for education during the troubles, but its record on voicing any dissatisfaction with British wrongdoings during this time is extremely poor other than the honorable exception of Cardinal Ó Fiaich.
It may have been self serving to an extent, but with no industries to walk into like our protestant neighbours a good education was your only hope.

As to Icemans point Catholicism and Irishness were synonymous for decades, home rule equals Rome rule had a ring of truth to it. Through the dastardly deeds of the church itself this link is well and truly broken and for the good of everyone.

Do RTE still have the angelus at 6PM every evening, a call to the family rosary for 10 minutes of mumbling...

[ONeill]

So Iceman, what you're saying is that i have to bring my schoolbag into a chapel in order to find god? It's all terribly confusing this religion carry on.

He also thinks you need to be Catholic to be Irish, a church of the long gone Roman Empire and a representative of a foreign and hostile state, The Vatican City. A church imposed on us by another extinct and formally hostile foreign state, England.

The Roman Catholic Church, the church that would have us ruled by London and Rome.

No you and Muppet are deliberately misrepresenting what he is saying. The facts on the ground are that CCMS schools incorporate a more cultural Irish ethos in a similar way to the state schools reflecting British cultural norms. This is because that since partition the body overseeing the Catholic sector were the only statutory body in the state which maintained or permitted some degree of Irish identify - merely because the Church was organised on a 32 country basis. If it wasn't for the Catholc Church and the schools northerners wouldl all be cheering on "our boys" and waving union jacks at jubbilee street parties. Times have moved on yes and a new setup is required but the Catholic Church deserves some credit for allowing the space of Irish culture to survive in the north when it would have been easy to lump in on the side of the state as it did in so many other countries.

Don't forget the hedge schools.

[ardal]

Have to say that I think it's partially because of the phasing out of RE; or less significance given to it, that social norms and value have taken a mighty kick in the gonads. I'm a basic non believer, not hater, but I do think RE helps to further enforce certain aspects of decency and respect which is increasingly lacking in many our our younger generation

Have they? 

Racism and homophobia are no longer acceptable attitudes. Political corruption was once considered a fact of life but nowadays is subject to one tribunal after another and the public is sick of it. Smoking indoors around non smokers was once considered acceptable but not anymore. People didn't used to pass any remarks about animal cruelty but nowadays people are horrified by it. There's more respect for the rules of the road than there used to be.

Seems to me like social norms and values have improved.

Seems to me that you're leaping before looking.

Norms and values in society are basic issues of respect, please, thank you, saying sorry, not attacking people because you want to take what they have, common courtesy; not car rage etc.

Tribunals? Who's been sentenced thus far and how many tribunals have we had and at what cost. Who has paid the cost?

As a people we complain a hell of a lot which is completely justified but then again actions speak louder than words

[Eamonnca1]

Have to say that I think it's partially because of the phasing out of RE; or less significance given to it, that social norms and value have taken a mighty kick in the gonads. I'm a basic non believer, not hater, but I do think RE helps to further enforce certain aspects of decency and respect which is increasingly lacking in many our our younger generation

Have they? 

Racism and homophobia are no longer acceptable attitudes. Political corruption was once considered a fact of life but nowadays is subject to one tribunal after another and the public is sick of it. Smoking indoors around non smokers was once considered acceptable but not anymore. People didn't used to pass any remarks about animal cruelty but nowadays people are horrified by it. There's more respect for the rules of the road than there used to be.

Seems to me like social norms and values have improved.

Seems to me that you're leaping before looking.

Norms and values in society are basic issues of respect, please, thank you, saying sorry, not attacking people because you want to take what they have, common courtesy; not car rage etc.

And are these basic values under threat or in retreat? I'm not seeing any indication that they are. People in the street are as polite now as they ever were. Since when did you need to be "saved" or "washed in the blood of the lamb" to adhere to values like that? Religion takes far too much credit for instilling virtues that are already instilled by human nature.

Tribunals? Who's been sentenced thus far and how many tribunals have we had and at what cost. Who has paid the cost?

As a people we complain a hell of a lot which is completely justified but then again actions speak louder than words

Huh? What's all this got to do with the price of fish?

[armaghniac]

In this day and age it's impossible to justify the state subsidizing an education system that's designed to crank out the next generation of indoctrinated sheep who will grow up to carry on dropping money in the basket in the chapel every weekend

Ah yes, the erudition and open minded nature of such anti Catholic contributions here is in sharp contrast to these schools which don't fully respect people who don't agree with their view.

[deiseach]

No you and Muppet are deliberately misrepresenting what he is saying. The facts on the ground are that CCMS schools incorporate a more cultural Irish ethos in a similar way to the state schools reflecting British cultural norms. This is because that since partition the body overseeing the Catholic sector were the only statutory body in the state which maintained or permitted some degree of Irish identify - merely because the Church was organised on a 32 country basis. If it wasn't for the Catholc Church and the schools northerners wouldl all be cheering on "our boys" and waving union jacks at jubbilee street parties. Times have moved on yes and a new setup is required but the Catholic Church deserves some credit for allowing the space of Irish culture to survive in the north when it would have been easy to lump in on the side of the state as it did in so many other countries.

Absolutely right. It's gas how people only see in Catholic schools throughout the 20th century a regime of brainwashing, harsh both physically and mentally. This is fair enough on its own merits - it was brainwashing and it was harsh - but any serious analysis of the education system in the North has to take into account the regime that would have being operating in an integrated system. Anyone who thinks that the Nationalist community would have emerged intact from a system which would have been proceeding from the principle that Northern Ireland was as British as Finchley is fooling themselves. Of course, maybe those people advocating such a system wanted everyone to receive such an education, but they should be honest about it.