Tyrone County Football and Hurling

[rodney trotter]

They won't be giving him anything, he'll be taking any extension he sees fit. He will decide when he steps away.

And rightly so he should take the extension.  Always baffles me the amount of people who want to get rid of the greatest manager in the history of Tyrone GAA    The man delivered 3 All Irelands, a league title, numerous Ulster's and basically a McKenna cup every year.

In fairness listing the McKenna Cup is hardly necessary.. A warm up tournament which has no relevance on the fiull season.

Sean Boylan was a great manager with Meath, but stayed on too long.  Brian Cody a bit similar to Mickey Harte, doesn't want to relenquish the power as manager. They reached the All Ireland final last year with a new team.,which was a good achievement m
There is still calls for a fresh look in Kilkenny.

Tyrone reached the All Ireland final in 2018 and some Semi final appearance which would have given Mickey Harte some leeway, though Tyrone are in a decent position, so if Harte at end of year, they aren't in a bad place. Meath were a sinking ship for a new manager when Boylan left.

[Snapchap]

A few more players not coming back.

Surely the mods should have be dishing out sort form of brutal punishment for lads posting up lines like that and not fronting up with names?

Is it that:
1. You know the names, but you like the idea of knowing a secret?
2. You don't know any names, and are just passing on a totally unsubstantiated rumour that some unnamed players are quitting?

[inroundthesquare]

They won't be giving him anything, he'll be taking any extension he sees fit. He will decide when he steps away.

And rightly so he should take the extension.  Always baffles me the amount of people who want to get rid of the greatest manager in the history of Tyrone GAA    The man delivered 3 All Irelands, a league title, numerous Ulster's and basically a McKenna cup every year.

In fairness listing the McKenna Cup is hardly necessary.. A warm up tournament which has no relevance on the fiull season.

Sean Boylan was a great manager with Meath, but stayed on too long.  Brian Cody a bit similar to Mickey Harte, doesn't want to relenquish the power as manager. They reached the All Ireland final last year with a new team.,which was a good achievement m
There is still calls for a fresh look in Kilkenny.

Tyrone reached the All Ireland final in 2018 and some Semi final appearance which would have given Mickey Harte some leeway, though Tyrone are in a decent position, so if Harte at end of year, they aren't in a bad place. Meath were a sinking ship for a new manager when Boylan left.

The thing is, do Tyrone have the quality of players that should have been winning All Irelands or at least getting very close over the past 5 years?
We have won 2 Ulsters, reached 3 All-Ireland Semis & 1 All-Ireland Final in that time which apart from the 2000s must be considered Tyrone's best ever period (maybe 95/96 better achievement as straight KO?)
A few weeks ago, people on here were rubbishing Peter Harte's reputation as a big player. If you ask anyone reasonable in the country they would say that Peter Harte would be one of our top 3/4 players over the past 5 years.
Therefore if one of our best players is such a poor player then how do we expect to be winning All Irelands and can it be said that Mickey is not getting the best out of his available personnel?

I personally thought he should have went after the 2017 Semi but the run to the final in 2018 was a vindication of him staying on IMO. I would have liked to judge him based on this year but with Covid now I think it is likely he will get another year.

[GetOverTheBar]

They won't be giving him anything, he'll be taking any extension he sees fit. He will decide when he steps away.

Absolutely right he will never jump he will need to be pushed!

Is it true the players are pushing out the manager round your way?

[Dire Ear]

Would Stevie O'Neill be a possibility for manager  ?

[lenny]

Would Stevie O'Neill be a possibility for manager  ?

What the Tyrone club championship shows is that there is plenty of forward talent in Tyrone and a desire among club teams to play open attractive football. There's also an evident lack of cynicism. This proves a point I have made on numerous occasions that the common denominator for putrid, defensive, cynical football is Harte. I have spoken to numerous people from around the country who were amazed at how enjoyable it was to watch the club football on display in Tyrone. Fair play to the club managers and players who gave everyone much entertainment. Collie Holmes would have to be in the frame because of the fitness levels Dungannon had and also the way he managed the squad and used the bench.

[oakleaflad]

Would Stevie O'Neill be a possibility for manager  ?

I'll assume you haven't seen Dungiven play this year

[square_ball]

Would Stevie O'Neill be a possibility for manager  ?

What the Tyrone club championship shows is that there is plenty of forward talent in Tyrone and a desire among club teams to play open attractive football. There's also an evident lack of cynicism. This proves a point I have made on numerous occasions that the common denominator for putrid, defensive, cynical football is Harte. I have spoken to numerous people from around the country who were amazed at how enjoyable it was to watch the club football on display in Tyrone. Fair play to the club managers and players who gave everyone much entertainment. Collie Holmes would have to be in the frame because of the fitness levels Dungannon had and also the way he managed the squad and used the bench.

Who is the main man at dungannon?

From what I seen of the Tyrone minors last year they were setup up very defensively.

[GetOverTheBar]

Would Stevie O'Neill be a possibility for manager  ?

What the Tyrone club championship shows is that there is plenty of forward talent in Tyrone and a desire among club teams to play open attractive football. There's also an evident lack of cynicism. This proves a point I have made on numerous occasions that the common denominator for putrid, defensive, cynical football is Harte. I have spoken to numerous people from around the country who were amazed at how enjoyable it was to watch the club football on display in Tyrone. Fair play to the club managers and players who gave everyone much entertainment. Collie Holmes would have to be in the frame because of the fitness levels Dungannon had and also the way he managed the squad and used the bench.

They were training all through the lockdown. That's not to downplay their achievements in any way. But none the less, it explains that.

[Dire Ear]

Would Stevie O'Neill be a possibility for manager  ?

I'll assume you haven't seen Dungiven play this year

No,  I'm assuming he didn't do well then?
Did he have a decent squad? ( I have no idea about Dungiven! )

[BennyHarp]

Would Stevie O'Neill be a possibility for manager  ?

What the Tyrone club championship shows is that there is plenty of forward talent in Tyrone and a desire among club teams to play open attractive football. There's also an evident lack of cynicism. This proves a point I have made on numerous occasions that the common denominator for putrid, defensive, cynical football is Harte. I have spoken to numerous people from around the country who were amazed at how enjoyable it was to watch the club football on display in Tyrone. Fair play to the club managers and players who gave everyone much entertainment. Collie Holmes would have to be in the frame because of the fitness levels Dungannon had and also the way he managed the squad and used the bench.

They were training all through the lockdown. That's not to downplay their achievements in any way. But none the less, it explains that.

They definitely weren't

[Angelo]

I think Tyrone could definitely do with a fresh voice around the squad but I do think Mickey Harte gets ridiculous criticism for the past decade. People reference the likes of Sean Boylan and Pete McGrath staying on too long, but look what happened Meath and Down when they did leave. Tyrone haven't repeated the success of the 00s but they have remained a steadfast top 5 team along that period and Harte deserves credit for that.

There's no real standout candidate, there's been a few Tyrone men take on outside county jobs in the past few years - McGleenan, Ricey, Tally etc. None have been overly successful, I think Tally is doing decently with Down but Tally is going to play an even more defensive game than the moaners bitch about Harte implementing.

The best candidate about is probably Malachy O'Rourke, again Malachy is hardly known for playing exciting football but he did do a very good job with Monaghan and has a very impressive CV, do we want an outside man? Wouldn't worry me too much.

I don't personally care about the style of football we play, we have lots of talent in the county but no team in country will be able to play an effective system in the modern game that caters for guys like McCurry, Bradley and Lee Brennan all playing at the same time. We seem to produce a load of the same type of players.

I'd probably give Harte next year, with McKenna back and hopefully McShane fit, it certainly raises expectations for 2021. I'd be putting us as second favourites behind Dublin in 2021 and if we don't make an All Ireland final it would be a disappointment.

[An Watcher]

Well said and I agree that Harte deserves enormous credit but time to go now as next year there'll be another reason to keep him

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

They won't be giving him anything, he'll be taking any extension he sees fit. He will decide when he steps away.

And rightly so he should take the extension.  Always baffles me the amount of people who want to get rid of the greatest manager in the history of Tyrone GAA    The man delivered 3 All Irelands, a league title, numerous Ulster's and basically a McKenna cup every year.

In fairness listing the McKenna Cup is hardly necessary.. A warm up tournament which has no relevance on the fiull season.

Sean Boylan was a great manager with Meath, but stayed on too long.  Brian Cody a bit similar to Mickey Harte, doesn't want to relenquish the power as manager. They reached the All Ireland final last year with a new team.,which was a good achievement m
There is still calls for a fresh look in Kilkenny.

Tyrone reached the All Ireland final in 2018 and some Semi final appearance which would have given Mickey Harte some leeway, though Tyrone are in a decent position, so if Harte at end of year, they aren't in a bad place. Meath were a sinking ship for a new manager when Boylan left.

The thing is, do Tyrone have the quality of players that should have been winning All Irelands or at least getting very close over the past 5 years?
We have won 2 Ulsters, reached 3 All-Ireland Semis & 1 All-Ireland Final in that time which apart from the 2000s must be considered Tyrone's best ever period (maybe 95/96 better achievement as straight KO?)
A few weeks ago, people on here were rubbishing Peter Harte's reputation as a big player. If you ask anyone reasonable in the country they would say that Peter Harte would be one of our top 3/4 players over the past 5 years.
Therefore if one of our best players is such a poor player then how do we expect to be winning All Irelands and can it be said that Mickey is not getting the best out of his available personnel?

I personally thought he should have went after the 2017 Semi but the run to the final in 2018 was a vindication of him staying on IMO. I would have liked to judge him based on this year but with Covid now I think it is likely he will get another year.

Tyrone certainly have had the quality of player to be involved in the latter stages of the Championship over the past few years. It hasn't been a vintage era in terms of depth. Dublin are excellent. Mayo have been very good. Kerry, while not at the level of their best teams, have been at a high level compared to the rest and are still improving. Beyond that there really isn't much. Given the pool of talent that Tyrone have and depth, added to the generally very high level of conditioning on the panel, and credit to Mickey and co for that, and really it's no surprise that Tyrone have been involved into the latter stages. In reality it would have been a failure were they not making quarters/super eights and occasional semi finals.

My issue with Mickey has been the way he has set up the team. He never got over those defeats by Jimmy McGuinness and became obsessed by trying to take that ultra defensive template to another level, even when the evidence suggested that such an extreme model would only work in the short term until others worked it out, even for the team that created it. Mickey spent a good while throwing everything into that, culminating in the 2017 semi where Tyrone conceded a goal after 5 minutes and didn't know how to come back.

You suggest 2018 was some kind of redemption. I don't agree. Tyrone were knocked out in the first round of Ulster by Monaghan. They were hugely fortunate to then survive against Meath. It was only when they started to play more of an attacking game that they began to make progress, and even then it was a hardly a vintage run to the final. On reaching the final there was a lot of talk of Mickey will have a plan. It turned out that his plan was to go all out attack from the start, something which went totally against the way he had been building his team for the previous three years. The idea that you could take on a team like Dublin by trying something entirely different to the minutely crafted defensive template you had spent years on was ludicrous. Sure enough, as soon as the Dubs got over the shock of seeing Tyrone attacking they put the game to bed before half-time. Tyrone are a team without an identity who don't really know how they are supposed to play. The manager showed a lack of faith in their ability by developing such a defensive strategy and since it was shown up badly has struggled to work out any other consistent approach of how he should use the talent he has available to him.

Now maybe you are happy enough with that. In the context of the history of Tyrone football the last few years are still very good. There was a long time when even the idea of a handy run to an AI Final would have been fantasy. But it is still fair game to question. Tyrone didn't get near Dublin in those games, despite Mayo and Kerry giving them massive tests in the Championship. Tyrone haven't managed to beat Kerry or Mayo either for that matter, they haven't in truth taken any truly notable scalps at all in the Championship. The talent was there to do better.

It's still there too. Mattie Donnelly and Peter Harte are top class players. McShane before the injury had emerged as a serious talent. McKenna coming home brings real excitement. Then thrown in Bradley, McCurry, Brennan etc. There is serious attacking threat there. Put some faith in them and go with a system which allows them to showcase their talent and stick with it. We might well still lose but at least it would be fun to watch and we'd know we lost having a real go, like Kerry and Mayo did.

And before the classic response of Tyrone running up massive scores is mentioned, grinding down inferior and physically weaker sides then putting 4-20 or whatever up against them doesn't mean you are an attacking team.

And I'll add too that Mickey has been a great leader and fantastic ambassador for Tyrone, and is also IMO a man of great dignity and integrity. All of which still doesn't mean that his record and methods shouldn't be scrutinised.

[inroundthesquare]

I actually agree with a loot of what you are saying. It's just when I see people here criticising as you say one of top players in Peter Harte and then criticising the manager for not getting the best out of the players - can't really have it both ways. Either the players are good enough or not.
The win over Donegal in 2018 was an impressive victory, a lot of talk was how our subs made a huge difference that day - we played a more attacking style of football from that point, should have been well up on Monaghan in the first half but then seemed to get nervy in the second half with the chance of a first All Ireland final in ten years at stake. We were 6/1 outsiders for the Final, realistically Dublin were just a better team, I do take the point that Mayo and Kerry seem to be able to run them close on the big days although not so much in the last 2 years (Mayo took a real hammering in the second half last year, Kerry ended up well beaten in the replay, same margin as 2018 final after playing most of the drawn game against 14 men). The current Dubs are a juggernaut.

Take the Kerry game last year as the most recent large piece of evidence. We were well in control at half time (4 points up). We played some terrific football using Mattie and McShane in the full forward line, using a direct style with arguably our best team on the field (one that played the 2nd half against Cork). Could argue the lack of link up with the half forward line but we were looking in control.
Nearly all the scores Kerry got in the first half were really poor Tyrone errors (from memory stupid free given away by Mattie, Morgan kicked ball directly to Geaney, Richie Donnelly intercepted crossfield pass)

Refereeing decisions and some bad individual errors cost us, let Kerry back into the game and once the Kerry forwards starting rolling they kicked some superb scores. I don't know if you could direct most of the blame to Mickey for that result to be honest. I thought at the time McCurry should have been brought in sooner.