Belfast rioting over removal of Union Jack

[glens abu]

Danny Morrisson sent this out in a email in the context of Unionist claims about threats to their Britishness. Excellent piece

"About fifteen years ago I wrote a piece for the Andersonstown News in reaction to a BBC report. Here is an extract, quite apposite given the recent protests about the imminent demise of our Britishness:"

According to the BBC the people of Iraq are being brainwashed. No matter where they turn in Baghdad there are reminders of President Saddam Hussein on every street corner; there are Saddam Avenues and Crescents, Hussein Parks and Drives.

A new board game, folks. Tiddlywinks, played on a map of Belfast. Four can play. North, South, East and West. Each of you have to get your four tiddlies into Royal Avenue without being brainwashed. You can't use the Queen Elizabeth Bridge, the Queen's Bridge, the Albert Bridge, the King's Bridge, Victoria Street, Prince's Street, Queen Street, King Street, Albert Street, the grounds of the Royal Victoria Hospital, a helicopter from the Kings Hall, Lower Windsor Avenue, the fields behind the Royal Academy. Nor can you be disguised as a prostitute from the Albert Clock, a student from Queen's, a worker with Royal Mail, a violinist with the Royal School of Music, a Queen's Counsel, a member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, a screw of Her Majesty's Prison Service, a soldier with Her Majesty's armed forces, a Crown Court judge. Nor by boat up Victoria Channel to Albert Quay, Victoria Wharf or Alexandra Jetty. You must use the Queen's English on the Queen's Highway or else you'll be in breach of the Queen's Peace.

Not easy, is it!

..........................

A friend has also sent me a paltry list of the totally insufficient number of memorials to the British Military, Stained Glass windows, Statues, Portraits and Artefacts relating to British/Unionist history and identity to be found in Belfast City Hall. This dearth of symbols urgently needs addressed.

Stained Glass Windows:
1. UDR
2. RUC
3. British Army
4. North Irish Horse
5. First World War
6. William 111 and Queen Victoria and Edward V11 in Great Hall
7. Royal Arms Edward V11 Council
8. Royal Arms Edward V11 Reception Room
9. Edward V11 and Alexandra on Main staircase
10. Somme memorial.

Statues
1. Queen Victoria
2. Daniel Dixon Senior Unionist organiser Unionist Convention 1892
3. Edward Harland Unionist MP
4. James Haslett MP and senior Orangeman
5. Robert McMordie Founder YCV
6. Dufferin & Ava

Military
1. Royal Irish Rifles Boer War Statue
2. Cenotaph
3. Korean War memorial stone
4. Somme painting by Beadle
5. Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers Colours
6. YCV memorial east wing
7. Imperial Yeomanry memorial tablet East Wing
8. Old Contemptible flags East Wing
9. 40 military plaques east wing
10. UDR formation plaque
11. Ex servicemen's banner

Portraits
1. Queen Victoria and Edward V11 in Council chamber
2. Field Marshall Henry Wilson

Artefacts
1. Covenant table
2. The monarch chairs in Chamber
3. Civil defence flag
4. Bust Edward Carson

[trileacman]

Stained Glass Windows:
1. UDR
2. RUC
3. British Army
4. North Irish Horse
5. First World War
6. William 111 and Queen Victoria and Edward V11 in Great Hall
7. Royal Arms Edward V11 Council
8. Royal Arms Edward V11 Reception Room
9. Edward V11 and Alexandra on Main staircase
10. Somme memorial.

Statues
1. Queen Victoria
2. Daniel Dixon Senior Unionist organiser Unionist Convention 1892
3. Edward Harland Unionist MP
4. James Haslett MP and senior Orangeman
5. Robert McMordie Founder YCV
6. Dufferin & Ava

Military
1. Royal Irish Rifles Boer War Statue
2. Cenotaph
3. Korean War memorial stone
4. Somme painting by Beadle
5. Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers Colours
6. YCV memorial east wing
7. Imperial Yeomanry memorial tablet East Wing
8. Old Contemptible flags East Wing
9. 40 military plaques east wing
10. UDR formation plaque
11. Ex servicemen's banner

Portraits
1. Queen Victoria and Edward V11 in Council chamber
2. Field Marshall Henry Wilson

Artefacts
1. Covenant table
2. The monarch chairs in Chamber
3. Civil defence flag
4. Bust Edward Carson

You're starting into some severe whataboutery if you are gonna start complaining about Somme, Korean or Boer war commemorations. FFS as many taigs as protestants died on the fields of WW1. There is enough holes in the Unionist flag argument as it is. We don't need to become hysterical.

[updown9194]

You're starting into some severe whataboutery if you are gonna start complaining about Somme, Korean or Boer war commemorations. FFS as many taigs as protestants died on the fields of WW1. There is enough holes in the Unionist flag argument as it is. We don't need to become hysterical.

I don't think anyone is complaining about them; I think people are just pointing out that plenty of the vestiges of British identity still remain in Belfast. I am not offended by a stained-glass window, and I don't think anyone else should be, even if I have no respect for whatever organisation or individual that window commemorates.

[trileacman]

You're starting into some severe whataboutery if you are gonna start complaining about Somme, Korean or Boer war commemorations. FFS as many taigs as protestants died on the fields of WW1. There is enough holes in the Unionist flag argument as it is. We don't need to become hysterical.

I don't think anyone is complaining about them; I think people are just pointing out that plenty of the vestiges of British identity still remain in Belfast. I am not offended by a stained-glass window, and I don't think anyone else should be, even if I have no respect for whatever organisation or individual that window commemorates.

Counting up the boer war memorials is a bit pendantic, this isn't a point scoring competition. You can make the point (which has been done already) about vestiges of the British empire by choosing a few choice examples. Searching City Hall for banners, statues and busts to annoy you is pure f**king loonacy though, equivalent to the shite current Unionists are broadcasting.

[armaghniac]

The point is that the memorials and the like in the City Hall are representative of one part of the citizens only.
In present times we hear a lot of about Unionists having given a lot etc, which overlooks the fact that the starting position was profoundly biased and unacceptable and any movement towards the centre is going to involve changes towards greater representation of the nationalist tradition.

[updown9194]

You're starting into some severe whataboutery if you are gonna start complaining about Somme, Korean or Boer war commemorations. FFS as many taigs as protestants died on the fields of WW1. There is enough holes in the Unionist flag argument as it is. We don't need to become hysterical.

I don't think anyone is complaining about them; I think people are just pointing out that plenty of the vestiges of British identity still remain in Belfast. I am not offended by a stained-glass window, and I don't think anyone else should be, even if I have no respect for whatever organisation or individual that window commemorates.

Counting up the boer war memorials is a bit pendantic, this isn't a point scoring competition. You can make the point (which has been done already) about vestiges of the British empire by choosing a few choice examples. Searching City Hall for banners, statues and busts to annoy you is pure f**king loonacy though, equivalent to the shite current Unionists are broadcasting.

I understand what you mean here, but I think the general point is that plenty of these things haven't been eroded by Sinn Féin and the SDLP in any way, and that there is still no parity in terms of representation of the Catholic/Nationalist community in official culture. An example would be the fact that, for example, there is no famine memorial in City Hall or indeed anywhere else in the north but there are countless memorials for the war efforts. This is all despite the fact that the Great famine in social, cultural and attritional terms is the defining catastrophe in Irish history - a history to which the people of Ulster were not detached from.

[screenexile]

My old History teacher (Wench that she was and still is) explained it pretty well when we were studying it at the time.

"It's like having 2 kids and one of them has a bar of chocolate, when you try and get them to share it all hell breaks loose!"

[armaghniac]

"It's like having 2 kids and one of them has a bar of chocolate, when you try and get them to share it all hell breaks loose!"

NI is a bit like Harry Potter's house, where the Dudley Durselys are not exactly the sharing type.

[spuds]

Life's like a bar of chocolate.

[Saffrongael]

Danny Morrisson sent this out in a email in the context of Unionist claims about threats to their Britishness. Excellent piece

"About fifteen years ago I wrote a piece for the Andersonstown News in reaction to a BBC report. Here is an extract, quite apposite given the recent protests about the imminent demise of our Britishness:"

According to the BBC the people of Iraq are being brainwashed. No matter where they turn in Baghdad there are reminders of President Saddam Hussein on every street corner; there are Saddam Avenues and Crescents, Hussein Parks and Drives.

A new board game, folks. Tiddlywinks, played on a map of Belfast. Four can play. North, South, East and West. Each of you have to get your four tiddlies into Royal Avenue without being brainwashed. You can't use the Queen Elizabeth Bridge, the Queen's Bridge, the Albert Bridge, the King's Bridge, Victoria Street, Prince's Street, Queen Street, King Street, Albert Street, the grounds of the Royal Victoria Hospital, a helicopter from the Kings Hall, Lower Windsor Avenue, the fields behind the Royal Academy. Nor can you be disguised as a prostitute from the Albert Clock, a student from Queen's, a worker with Royal Mail, a violinist with the Royal School of Music, a Queen's Counsel, a member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, a screw of Her Majesty's Prison Service, a soldier with Her Majesty's armed forces, a Crown Court judge. Nor by boat up Victoria Channel to Albert Quay, Victoria Wharf or Alexandra Jetty. You must use the Queen's English on the Queen's Highway or else you'll be in breach of the Queen's Peace.

Not easy, is it!

SF lackey thinks another SF lackey has written an "excellent piece" shocker !

[Olly]

You don't see many Drifters anymore. I remember my father bringing me home a Drifter instead of a Flake. It was the highlight of my youth.

[seafoid]

You're starting into some severe whataboutery if you are gonna start complaining about Somme, Korean or Boer war commemorations. FFS as many taigs as protestants died on the fields of WW1. There is enough holes in the Unionist flag argument as it is. We don't need to become hysterical.

I don't think anyone is complaining about them; I think people are just pointing out that plenty of the vestiges of British identity still remain in Belfast. I am not offended by a stained-glass window, and I don't think anyone else should be, even if I have no respect for whatever organisation or individual that window commemorates.

Counting up the boer war memorials is a bit pendantic, this isn't a point scoring competition. You can make the point (which has been done already) about vestiges of the British empire by choosing a few choice examples. Searching City Hall for banners, statues and busts to annoy you is pure f**king loonacy though, equivalent to the shite current Unionists are broadcasting.

I understand what you mean here, but I think the general point is that plenty of these things haven't been eroded by Sinn Féin and the SDLP in any way, and that there is still no parity in terms of representation of the Catholic/Nationalist community in official culture. An example would be the fact that, for example, there is no famine memorial in City Hall or indeed anywhere else in the north but there are countless memorials for the war efforts. This is all despite the fact that the Great famine in social, cultural and attritional terms is the defining catastrophe in Irish history - a history to which the people of Ulster were not detached from.

The names of the streets are also typical of places with a messy history that doesn't reflect the present

[seafoid]

Danny Morrisson sent this out in a email in the context of Unionist claims about threats to their Britishness. Excellent piece

"About fifteen years ago I wrote a piece for the Andersonstown News in reaction to a BBC report. Here is an extract, quite apposite given the recent protests about the imminent demise of our Britishness:"

According to the BBC the people of Iraq are being brainwashed. No matter where they turn in Baghdad there are reminders of President Saddam Hussein on every street corner; there are Saddam Avenues and Crescents, Hussein Parks and Drives.

A new board game, folks. Tiddlywinks, played on a map of Belfast. Four can play. North, South, East and West. Each of you have to get your four tiddlies into Royal Avenue without being brainwashed. You can't use the Queen Elizabeth Bridge, the Queen's Bridge, the Albert Bridge, the King's Bridge, Victoria Street, Prince's Street, Queen Street, King Street, Albert Street, the grounds of the Royal Victoria Hospital, a helicopter from the Kings Hall, Lower Windsor Avenue, the fields behind the Royal Academy. Nor can you be disguised as a prostitute from the Albert Clock, a student from Queen's, a worker with Royal Mail, a violinist with the Royal School of Music, a Queen's Counsel, a member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, a screw of Her Majesty's Prison Service, a soldier with Her Majesty's armed forces, a Crown Court judge. Nor by boat up Victoria Channel to Albert Quay, Victoria Wharf or Alexandra Jetty. You must use the Queen's English on the Queen's Highway or else you'll be in breach of the Queen's Peace.

Not easy, is it!

I suppose no chance of Queen Kate's Sister's Arse Car Park
or Prince Harry's Vomit Road coming to fruition in the NI of the future. 

[Applesisapples]

I really hope the silent majority remember these days and give the Alliance their full support in the years ahead. Pandering to the lowest common denominator takes us to no town. This whole notion of needing a flag flying over a building to feel some sense of belonging to where you live is so strange. I would hope that there's a very large group of protestant people living up here who think its just as strange. FFS get out there, fight for your community and make it a better place to live regardless.

Unionist fear of the pro irish institution that is the GAA is to the detriment of a lot of towns and villages across the province. It makes for a great distraction and that sense of belonging.

Does the same not apply for nationalist / catholic voters too?  i.e. Is it okay for the majority of nationalist / catholic voters to continue to vote for the more extremist Sinn Fein?  By the same rational, should they too not switch votes to the SDLP

SF are no longer on the extremes, they have marched quite comfortably on to ground previously the preserve of the SDLP hence the SDLP have no where to go. Unionist insecurity has always been there and partition was the result, it is this awareness of being a minority on the island and seeing it as weakness rather than taking comfort from the size of that minority. Unfortunately when you have also held all the cards over the years any compromise is viewed as a loss. Perhaps the most obvious source of discomfort is the realisation that they are now a minority in what they view as their wee country.

[omagh_gael]

You don't see many Drifters anymore. I remember my father bringing me home a Drifter instead of a Flake. It was the highlight of my youth.

I had a drifter for lunch today, a massively under appreciated chocolate bar. Keep up the good work Olly.