Ulster Colleges

[J70]

Amalgamations shouldn't be permitted for schools football at all.

Its a difficult one, I'm conflicted, on one hand I agree, on the other I can see an argument for it. However I can't agree with areas such as Belfast that have long established clubs being allowed to amalgamate. FFs get your finger out and put in the yards. St Brigids & St Galls are doing it. As for an amalgamation winning the Mac Rory, as in the Kerry championship, they should not be allowed to progress any further in the competition, the stand allow college should go forward, eg last yr you had St Pats and the Donegal amalgamation in the final, if the the Donegal team had of won, that was there season over and St Pats go forward.

It was actually Abbey VS who made the final last year (they beat SW DL in the semi), but I think it's a fair enough point.

I fully support the amalgamation though. It'll help us develop players by allowing those players to play at the highest schools level against those large northern schools.

I see two of the five amalgamated schools, Gaoth Dobhair and Glenties, have teams in the Markey again this year. Does anyone know if players have to choose one or the other?

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

For the Antrim amalgamations in Rannafast etc, they don't choose one or the other. They play both.

[DuffleKing]

Would I be correct in saying this is the breakdown of teams per county?

Antrim      0
Armagh      3 
Cavan       1
Derry       3
Donegal     2
Down        2
Fermanagh   1
Monaghan    3
Tyrone      3

How are Antrim supposed to improve if they have no representation; could they not amalgamate a few schools in Belfast similar to what they do in Derry and Donegal?

On the flip side that's incredible from Monaghan to have 3 schools represented; how do they do it?

Who are the two Down schools?

[Armagh18]

Would I be correct in saying this is the breakdown of teams per county?

Antrim      0
Armagh      3 
Cavan       1
Derry       3
Donegal     2
Down        2
Fermanagh   1
Monaghan    3
Tyrone      3

How are Antrim supposed to improve if they have no representation; could they not amalgamate a few schools in Belfast similar to what they do in Derry and Donegal?

On the flip side that's incredible from Monaghan to have 3 schools represented; how do they do it?

Who are the two Down schools?

Assume he means the Abbey/St Colemans.

[DuffleKing]

That would be heavily disputed in South Armagh

[Armagh18]

That would be heavily disputed in South Armagh

Oh I know. Sure even Downs home pitch is partially in Armagh .

Both the Newry schools would traditionally have plenty from both Down and Armagh.

[thewobbler]

How are Antrim meant to improve?

It's simple enough:

By giving a f**k all the time, no matter what you have, and when a few stars align, then make hay.

St Michael's Enniskillen are the perfect embodiment of what schools football should be.

That's all any school Antrim should aspire to be.

And if they can do that, they'll always have a numerical advantage on St Michael's.

But sure why put in the hard yards when you can make it easy with amalgamations?

 

[Wildweasel74]

I been up at St Michaels doing work. Boys only school with more no's per year group than say Maghera or Mfelt!

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

I think I agree with your general point.

However, St Michael's don't seem to improve Fermanagh's fortunes all that well. And St. Michael's is all of Fermanagh. And beyond.

As for the "Antrim" amalgamation. I, perhaps, misnamed it previously. It is Antrim & Down.

Anyway, until the clubs in Antrim are sending enough players of the required quality, with the necessary commitment levels and if the clubs/county can purposefully include schools' GAA into the bigger picture* then the post primary schools in Antrim haven't a chance.

* They fall over themselves to say they do. And the schools aren't doing enough. Yet, there are players being pulled from school teams left, right & centre as they are in club minor championships etc.

The schools aren't failing the clubs/kids. It is entirely the opposite.

There is also a caveat that the Antrim schools are trying (in vain) to navigate football & hurling which seems to be becoming increasingly more difficult in the world of "train like fcuk".

[thewobbler]

I been up at St Michaels doing work. Boys only school with more no's per year group than say Maghera or Mfelt!

But... it's not the numbers per school year that matters. If this was all that mattered, then the mega schools would have the competition to themselves.

St Michael's have little or no competition for what they enrol (11 yr old Catholic boys from Fermanagh and West Tyrone who pass the transfer test), so in any given year it matters not that they're a "football" school. They get what they're given. And then they go to work.

Should any (Belfast area) Antrim school actually position themselves as a "football" school, and then try to live up to it, they would surprise themselves at what they might achieve. Not immediately, but within a generation. The chimney pots are there to have a series of bonafide football academies across Belfast.

But the will isn't there.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

I been up at St Michaels doing work. Boys only school with more no's per year group than say Maghera or Mfelt!

But... it's not the numbers per school year that matters. If this was all that mattered, then the mega schools would have the competition to themselves.

St Michael's have little or no competition for what they enrol (11 yr old Catholic boys from Fermanagh and West Tyrone who pass the transfer test), so in any given year it matters not that they're a "football" school. They get what they're given. And then they go to work.

Should any (Belfast area) Antrim school actually position themselves as a "football" school, and then try to live up to it, they would surprise themselves at what they might achieve. Not immediately, but within a generation. The chimney pots are there to have a series of bonafide football academies across Belfast.

But the will isn't there.

Play that out for me....

[thewobbler]

I think I agree with your general point.

However, St Michael's don't seem to improve Fermanagh's fortunes all that well. And St. Michael's is all of Fermanagh. And beyond.

As for the "Antrim" amalgamation. I, perhaps, misnamed it previously. It is Antrim & Down.

Anyway, until the clubs in Antrim are sending enough players of the required quality, with the necessary commitment levels and if the clubs/county can purposefully include schools' GAA into the bigger picture* then the post primary schools in Antrim haven't a chance.

* They fall over themselves to say they do. And the schools aren't doing enough. Yet, there are players being pulled from school teams left, right & centre as they are in club minor championships etc.

The schools aren't failing the clubs/kids. It is entirely the opposite.

There is also a caveat that the Antrim schools are trying (in vain) to navigate football & hurling which seems to be becoming increasingly more difficult in the world of "train like fcuk".

Being from a few counties across, what  I'm going to say here is of course based on a combination of supposition, second hand information and perhaps some romanticism for a great competition. It's not close to fact. Just how I see it.

But the key difference, in my mind, between the fortunes and exploits of Leitrim and Fermanagh (roughly similar GAA populations) over my lifetime is that the latter enjoys a single school that is embedded in highest level GAA culture.

[Duine Inteacht Eile]

I'm not sure what your lifetime is but in mine, Leitrim won a provincial championship. Fermanagh didn't.

Fantastic sample mind you.

[thewobbler]

Duine Inteachy Eile, it's of course much easier to explain than it is to action.

But should a school in the Belfast area demonstratively put in place a 10 year plan to win a MacRory Cup. Talk about it. Get the coaches to live it. Get the players to live it. Own it at every step. They won't have to go recruiting after 5 years. Parents of primary age kids from GAA backgrounds will know if things are happening in tandem with the plan. And their sons will then travel the extra half mile to get involved.

Then it will happen.

The numbers are there.

[thewobbler]

I'm not sure what your lifetime is but in mine, Leitrim won a provincial championship. Fermanagh didn't.

Fantastic sample mind you.

If you're honestly going to state openly that Leitrim have out punched Fermanagh over our lifetimes, then honestly, you need to stop talking.