Are the rules always right?

[magpie seanie]

Looks like any advice Dromore received could be costly. There's no distinction between underage and adult for suspensions as far as I understand. By the description given at the top of the thread I'd reckon the lad was illegal and frankly a "Johnny told us it was ok" defense is worthless. Pick up a rule book and read it my friends - level and grade etc are all clearly defined.

[brokencrossbar1]

Looks like any advice Dromore received could be costly. There's no distinction between underage and adult for suspensions as far as I understand. By the description given at the top of the thread I'd reckon the lad was illegal and frankly a "Johnny told us it was ok" defense is worthless. Pick up a rule book and read it my friends - level and grade etc are all clearly defined.

The CHC thought differently when lifting Anton McArdle's ban, and if anything he played at a closer 'level', ie u21.

[Applesisapples]

I've encountered this in Armagh and the definition of level given to me was Club, County, Colleges/Schools, 3rd Level, as a previous poster has stated.

[Franko]

From the official guide:

7.5 Suspensions
Interpretation of Terms
(a) For the purpose of interpretation of Suspensions and
in Rule generally:
(1) “Level” shall mean the representative level at
which the Suspension concerned was incurred
e.g. Inter-Provincial, Inter-County, Club, Third-
Level, Schools etc. Where a Team of one Level is
playing a Game or Competition at another Level,
e.g. Third-Level College v. County, a Level-specific
Suspension incurred by a Player shall apply at
the Level of the Team he was playing with on the
occasion of the Infraction.

Surely this ends all debate.  The 'level' he was suspended from playing at is 'Club Level' and since he went on to play at club level he has broken the rules and Dromore should be sanctioned accordingly.

Doesn't change the fact that Ardboe should be forever banished to GAA hell for having taken it this far though.

[brokencrossbar1]

But there is a grey area in terms of the split between minor board and senior board(and I don't mean minor in terms of u18).  It is conceivable to suggest that as most counties have seperate organisations running the underage structures and there are different regulations pertaining to the underage in some respects, then it should be seen as a seperate "level".  I do not know the rationale behind the Anton McArdle ban being overturned but I do believe it was on the basis that as he was sent off in a senior match it was different to an underage level and therefore was eligible.  I am not the authority on it but it would seem that CHC have defined it thus.

[clarshack]

From the official guide:

7.5 Suspensions
Interpretation of Terms
(a) For the purpose of interpretation of Suspensions and
in Rule generally:
(1) "Level" shall mean the representative level at
which the Suspension concerned was incurred
e.g. Inter-Provincial, Inter-County, Club, Third-
Level, Schools etc. Where a Team of one Level is
playing a Game or Competition at another Level,
e.g. Third-Level College v. County, a Level-specific
Suspension incurred by a Player shall apply at
the Level of the Team he was playing with on the
occasion of the Infraction.

Surely this ends all debate.  The 'level' he was suspended from playing at is 'Club Level' and since he went on to play at club level he has broken the rules and Dromore should be sanctioned accordingly.

would agree with this. level in this case is defined as 'club' not 'youth'.

corduff were stripped of their ulster junior title 2 years ago because they broke the rules.

dromore have clearly broken the rules and there can only be 1 outcome.

if ardboe minors hadn't have been shafted by the county board, this probably wouldn't even have came to light.

[brokencrossbar1]

From the official guide:

7.5 Suspensions
Interpretation of Terms
(a) For the purpose of interpretation of Suspensions and
in Rule generally:
(1) "Level" shall mean the representative level at
which the Suspension concerned was incurred
e.g. Inter-Provincial, Inter-County, Club, Third-
Level, Schools etc. Where a Team of one Level is
playing a Game or Competition at another Level,
e.g. Third-Level College v. County, a Level-specific
Suspension incurred by a Player shall apply at
the Level of the Team he was playing with on the
occasion of the Infraction.

Surely this ends all debate.  The 'level' he was suspended from playing at is 'Club Level' and since he went on to play at club level he has broken the rules and Dromore should be sanctioned accordingly.

would agree with this. level in this case is defined as 'club' not 'youth'.

corduff were stripped of their ulster junior title 2 years ago because they broke the rules.

dromore have clearly broken the rules and there can only be 1 outcome.

if ardboe minors hadn't have been shafted by the county board, this probably wouldn't even have came to light.

Corduff broke the rules by playing a player 2 age groups above his current age group.  That is a very clear rule.  There is ambiguity in the Dromore case.

[barelegs]

The big difference with the Anton McArdle case and this, is that the argument is about the outcome for the club in question not the player.

It's one thing to say the player shouldn't be suspended for 6 months for breaking the rule. It's another thing to say the club should forfeit the game as a result.

In the Corduff case the club was punished not the player (I think). Reading the Official Guide it doesn't look good for Dromore.

Had Ardboe not been on the verge of being thrown out of the minor championship I'm not sure they would have pushed the issue. There could be egg on a lot of faces on the Tyrone County Board over their handling of this situation.

[brokencrossbar1]

The big difference with the Anton McArdle case and this, is that the argument is about the outcome for the club in question not the player.

It's one thing to say the player shouldn't be suspended for 6 months for breaking the rule. It's another thing to say the club should forfeit the game as a result.

In the Corduff case the club was punished not the player (I think). Reading the Official Guide it doesn't look good for Dromore.

Had Ardboe not been on the verge of being thrown out of the minor championship I'm not sure they would have pushed the issue. There could be egg on a lot of faces on the Tyrone County Board over their handling of this situation.

Anton McArdle's case, I believe, sets a precedent that a player sent off at senior level is not banned from playing at underage level.  This would suggest to me then that the opposite should apply, ie a player sent off at underage level is elegible to play at senior.  If the Tyrone County Board follow your logic then Dromore should be thrown out and the young lad in question should get an automatic 6 months suspension.  You can't punish one without punishing the other.

[Plain of the Herbs]

Yes it does end the debate.  'Levels' are inter-county, club, inter-varsity ect.  Senior, Junior, Minor are 'grades'.

Rule 7.5 (1) was the deciding factor when Longford were awarded a league match against Offaly a number of years ago when an Offaly player (I forget who) was sent off in an U21 match and while still under suspension was incorrectly told he could play in a Senior NHL match following a mix-up between 'grades' and 'levels'.

From the official guide:

7.5 Suspensions
Interpretation of Terms
(a) For the purpose of interpretation of Suspensions and
in Rule generally:
(1) "Level" shall mean the representative level at
which the Suspension concerned was incurred
e.g. Inter-Provincial, Inter-County, Club, Third-
Level, Schools etc. Where a Team of one Level is
playing a Game or Competition at another Level,
e.g. Third-Level College v. County, a Level-specific
Suspension incurred by a Player shall apply at
the Level of the Team he was playing with on the
occasion of the Infraction.

Surely this ends all debate.  The 'level' he was suspended from playing at is 'Club Level' and since he went on to play at club level he has broken the rules and Dromore should be sanctioned accordingly.

Doesn't change the fact that Ardboe should be forever banished to GAA hell for having taken it this far though.

[DuffleKing]

The big difference with the Anton McArdle case and this, is that the argument is about the outcome for the club in question not the player.

It's one thing to say the player shouldn't be suspended for 6 months for breaking the rule. It's another thing to say the club should forfeit the game as a result.

In the Corduff case the club was punished not the player (I think). Reading the Official Guide it doesn't look good for Dromore.

Had Ardboe not been on the verge of being thrown out of the minor championship I'm not sure they would have pushed the issue. There could be egg on a lot of faces on the Tyrone County Board over their handling of this situation.

Anton McArdle's case, I believe, sets a precedent that a player sent off at senior level is not banned from playing at underage level.  This would suggest to me then that the opposite should apply, ie a player sent off at underage level is elegible to play at senior.  If the Tyrone County Board follow your logic then Dromore should be thrown out and the young lad in question should get an automatic 6 months suspension.  You can't punish one without punishing the other.

I don't think McArdle was cleared. Was his ban not reduced by Croke Park's clemency committee?

[Club Rossa]

Our minors have been turfed out of the cship,wrongly in my opinion.Our appeal is being heard by the Ulster council next Thursday night.There is a deep sense of injustice in Ardboe at the minute about the way we have been treated by the county board.
Dromore may have fielded a suspended player and i know they were winning the game handy but if the county board are prepared to come down hard on us on the minor issue then it will be interesting to see what they do with Dromore.

[brokencrossbar1]

The big difference with the Anton McArdle case and this, is that the argument is about the outcome for the club in question not the player.

It's one thing to say the player shouldn't be suspended for 6 months for breaking the rule. It's another thing to say the club should forfeit the game as a result.

In the Corduff case the club was punished not the player (I think). Reading the Official Guide it doesn't look good for Dromore.

Had Ardboe not been on the verge of being thrown out of the minor championship I'm not sure they would have pushed the issue. There could be egg on a lot of faces on the Tyrone County Board over their handling of this situation.

Anton McArdle's case, I believe, sets a precedent that a player sent off at senior level is not banned from playing at underage level.  This would suggest to me then that the opposite should apply, ie a player sent off at underage level is elegible to play at senior.  If the Tyrone County Board follow your logic then Dromore should be thrown out and the young lad in question should get an automatic 6 months suspension.  You can't punish one without punishing the other.

I don't think McArdle was cleared. Was his ban not reduced by Croke Park's clemency committee?

http://hoganstand.com/Down/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=162007

Down's Anton McArdle has succeeded in having his six-month ban overturned.

The up-and-coming star was hit with the suspension by Down's CCC after making a late substitute appearance for his club Burren against St. Mary's in an U21 championship match - a week after he was controversially sent off in Burren's AIB Ulster club final defeat to Crossmaglen Rangers.

Despite contending that he had been incorrectly advised by his club that he was eligible to play in the U21 game, his appeal was thrown out by the Ulster Council last month. However, following a recommendation by the Central Hearings Committee, his suspension was lifted by Central Council on Saturday.

McArdle was back in action yesterday when he was introduced as a second half substitute in Down's heavy Allianz Fooball League defeat to Cork. He will also be available for UUJ's Irish Daily Mail Sigerson Cup quarter-final against NUI Galway on Wednesday.

Now the devil might be in the detail and he was allowed to play for Down and UUJ as they were a different 'level' but it is not clear from this and that is why I think there may be some ambiguity.

[Puckoon]

Maybe I'm nuts - but if you are cruising in a championship game and there exists even a shred of doubt over the eligability of a player - why run any kind of risk by putting them on at all? I understand blooding new players etc but regardless of what "the man" told me I wouldn't see the value in taking the risk at all.

[Orchardman]

Yes, dromore stupid for taking the chance when they didn't need him.

Ardboe should be away lying low after getting a 9 point trimming, should be ashamed of themselves