All Ireland senior football final 2012 Donegal v Mayo

[Mayo4Sam]

Can some fcuker from Mayo, just one, have a go and attempt to formulate a small tactical analysis as to how they can approach this and win it?

Who do you think will be your key men? Where are the Donegal weaknesses? What can you do that Kerry and Cork couldn't?

Even someone who isn't from Mayo but gives them a chance. And none of this cute hoorism of giving it a lash. McGuinness shites lashes.

Have you much down on Donegal O'Neill? Is it just all your worldly goods or have you been getting a few loans and putting them down as well?

I put 20 euro on Donegal at 14/1 in February  ......paddy power can keep it

I have 50 on mayo at 25-1 from the start of the year, I'd let them keep it in return for Sam

[Crete Boom]

Donegal confidence is born out of lack of understanding of what it takes to win an AI and a significant over estimation of their season so far. They beat ageing and slowing Tyrone Cork and Kerry teams. Sunday they will face a pacy and fit team that they will not dominate at midfield as they did v Cork. I expect we will be out of the blocks faster and we wll see what Donegal are made of ad they chase a 5 or 6 point lead

Overall we have the better players in 9/10 positions and to be honest I can't see us losing to an average enough over hyped outfit.

And Mayo have hardly beaten the cream of GAA on their way to the final - Leitrim and Sligo followed by a demoralised Down team and a Dublin team that was a poor shadow of the team that won the previous AI. Please explain how, all of a sudden, Mayo have now acquired a deep understanding of what it takes to win an AI?

Well we certainly have a deep understanding on how to lose All Ireland finals so maybe through this we have actually gained a deeper meaning of what it is to win All Irelands? Although answering the question I just posed is probably as hard as answering " Are Mayo the worst side since Mayo to reach an All Ireland final?" . Too many variables and I have a load of work I have to pretend I'm doing at the moment so I'll leave it with you

[Zulu]

You could say the same about Donegal, other than Kerry and Cork they've beaten nobody of note and Kerry were a pale shadow of themselves this year while Cork have never fulfilled their potential and only won an AI because they got a poor Down teammin the final.

Now, I'm not sure I believe what I just posted but anyone can labor beaten opponents with post event assessments. Mayo beat a good Dublin team trying to peak for september and to suggest otherwise is nonsense.

In the past 2 years both teams have achieved more or less the same so I can't see how someof ye ate dismissing mayo's chances out of hand.

[iorras]

In the past 2 years both teams have achieved more or less the same so I can't see how someof ye ate dismissing mayo's chances out of hand.

Coz the Sunday Game panelists said so and thats all about it

[ludermor]

Jesus o'neill you put in some night last night trying to wind up the whole of mayo 

You would think that some would know better than rise to it

[Crete Boom]

You could say the same about Donegal, other than Kerry and Cork they've beaten nobody of note and Kerry were a pale shadow of themselves this year while Cork have never fulfilled their potential and only won an AI because they got a poor Down teammin the final.

Now, I'm not sure I believe what I just posted but anyone can labor beaten opponents with post event assessments. Mayo beat a good Dublin team trying to peak for september and to suggest otherwise is nonsense.

In the past 2 years both teams have achieved more or less the same so I can't see how someof ye ate dismissing mayo's chances out of hand.

I posted this somewhere on the Dublin V Mayo thread and over on Mayo Gaa Blog when trying to explain some of the senstivity of Mayo posters towards being dismissed as genuine All Ireland contenders before that game and I think it might go some way to answering that bit I've highlighted in bold in your post ;

"  A lot of my fellow county men appear to be getting revved up about the perceived slight on us from referees and the media in the run up to Sunday and from a Mayo perspective it does seem justified if a little futile. Maybe it's a way to release nerves but the most furious debate is between ourselves and it's framed by the ref/media is against us Vs stop whinging and get on with it brigades with very little in between!
The Ref debate reared it's ugly head due to the incompetence of the ref in the minor match at the weekend but in my personal opinion it was just Meath and Mayo's bad luck to have such a poor ref and doubly Mayo's bad luck to be on the end of such bad calls at the worst time in the match. Then again in my experience bad ref's generally make bad calls at the worst time in a match , it's essential to what makes them a bad ref and Meath could easily have been the receiving team of these calls on another day! So I think we can put the Ref is against debate down to current unfortunate events.
With regard to the media I don't think it's as straightforward. Some people referenced the reaction to the possibility of a Mayo win on the Sunday game as proof of a slight against us ,but I would dismiss this outright for the following reasons;
1) The Sunday game dismisses most counties  and offers very little insight into anything let alone Mayo gaa.
2) On the panel last night Ciaran Whelan is the only one who ever offers any insight or analysis on what actually happens/might happen in games which references to current tactics/playing personal of the teams,  ( while the rest fire out a couple of random stats and fire off the old cliche's about counties that you'd hear from manys a barstool late at night all over the country ) and he's hardly going to back anyone but he's own county (fair play to him for his honesty).
3) Tony Davis , God love him great player , sound man but couldn't analyse his way out of a wet brown paper bag  (Just watch any of his analysis on RTE player to back up my statement)
So for these reasons I think we can drop the Sunday game from the argument.
I could go through a load of print journalists like Liam Hayes,Martin Breheny, Eugene Mcgee etc... but again they've had a go at manys a county one day and idolised them forever more when they win Sam. Well except maybe Hayes but I'm not sure if he likes any county, remember his attacks on Kerry a couple of years back 
So another section of the media struck off the list of the enemies of Mayo but before you think it's all peace and love it gets interesting when we get to (in my mind) the more credible Gaa media.
I'm a big fan of the coverage on Off the Ball on Newstalk. Last night they had Anthony Moyles and Conor Deegan analysing the Cork Donegal match. What was interesting was what they said when the question of can Donegal be beaten in the final? Moyles started to talk about how Dublin would counteract them and immediately corrected himself by saying in his opinion Dublin would win the semi hence why he was using them in his analysis( Fair play to him). In fairness he did tip Dublin since the draw was made so I'd no argument there if being initially annoyed at his mistake. Then Connor Deegan admitted that he thought Dublin would win as well and proceeded to talk about how Dublin would react to Donegal in the final. Now what puzzled me was how had Mayo fallen so far behind Dublin and Donegal in the race for Sam? . How are Mayo rank outsiders in Sunday's match in the minds of two analysts who normally are very balanced in their predictions. In no way did they sound condescending or arrogant in the Spillane/Brolly mode.
I tried to think back to recent results to figure this one out but in our last league meeting with hammered the Dubs and our last championship meeting we were victorious as well so it's not a legacy thing as with say Mayo v Kerry. Also I took this years championship results and while we didn't have gruelling route to the semi we seemed to perform competently and the Dubs have had much the same route as ourselves , wining the games as expected but not shooting the lights out.Also Mayo had a good if up and down league, reaching the league final and beating Kerry in Croker along the way. Now I know the Dubs are reigning All Ireland champs but we did knock out Cork last year and only Kerry have retained the title since Cork did in 1990. So personally while the Dubs may be favourites it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we could win on Sunday.
The crux of it I think is two things. Firstly it's the legacy of our Final losses. 89 and 96 aside we weren't at the races in the other three. We were dominated in 1997 start to finish and 04/06 we were wiped out. Secondly we have constantly come back year after year since 96 in the search for Sam. I think the legacy of our final flops and the familiarity of us being around the business end of the championship has built up a strange tolerance of us as in it's no suprise to see us in a semi final but sure they don't even come close to winning finals so let's see someone different for a change. This is where we differ from the Donegal story. Both teams have made huge strides under determined, young ,tactically aware and native managers since 2010 but Donegal haven't been in a final since they won it 1992. This gives the impression they have come from nowhere as opposed to us sliding into one place from our usual inevitable failure. This is why I think we have been subconsciously banished from the mind of pundits. Also I think we can now see where the source of frustration for Mayo supporters comes from in that we are handicapped from being able to show our immense pride in our county teams of the last 23 years because of the inevitable derision it attracts.
Does this mean we should be favourites for the Dublin match? No , but I think some of the above might go some way to explaining the debate and accusations that's been happening on Mayo related threads/blogs over the last couple of days.
The solution, unfortunately the only one is to go on and win the All Ireland and probably put in back to back titles to wipe out our own unusual legacy of near immortality reduced to laughing stock in the blink of an All Ireland final. But sure I'm a Mayo man I wouldn't have any it other way if I'm honest. Life is boring stuck at the top or stuck at the bottom it's the journey in between that's the most craic. "

[ONeill]

Excellent. One point - Mayo's meanest defence -  in the All-Ireland series - 2-9 and 0-16 against. That 0-16 also included 2 great goal chances for the opposition. Outside of their provincial run (Leitrim and Sligo) I don't buy that. In the league 0-17 against Donegal, 1-13 against Down, 0-14 against Cork, 1-12 against Kerry, 2-10 against Coark again. Seems average.

Whoa there, Nelly, whoa!
I said meanest not tightest.
Any Donegal bucko who expects to savour the sweet taste of success on Sunday will find himself ingesting a few gobfuls of Croke Park soil before he knows what's hit him.
Mayo backs don't do prisoners- hostages maybe but no encumbrances of any sort.
Be forewarned!

As a Mayo octogenarian, surely you see the value in downplaying your chances. You've experienced the downs too many times now.

[Mayo Mick]

You could say the same about Donegal, other than Kerry and Cork they've beaten nobody of note and Kerry were a pale shadow of themselves this year while Cork have never fulfilled their potential and only won an AI because they got a poor Down teammin the final.

Now, I'm not sure I believe what I just posted but anyone can labor beaten opponents with post event assessments. Mayo beat a good Dublin team trying to peak for september and to suggest otherwise is nonsense.

In the past 2 years both teams have achieved more or less the same so I can't see how someof ye ate dismissing mayo's chances out of hand.

Spot on Zulu and we have been just as effective in adopting our style of play. In the past year we have beaten Cork, Kerry and the Dubs in CJroke Park and in all of these games we have shown we can mix it and grind out results. 

I have no problem with Donegal being talked up -better them than us. I would prefer to lose the favourites stakes and win the real thing. All this talking up of Donegal will make it twice as hard for them when they lose.

[Captain Obvious]

You could say the same about Donegal, other than Kerry and Cork they've beaten nobody of note and Kerry were a pale shadow of themselves this year while Cork have never fulfilled their potential and only won an AI because they got a poor Down teammin the final.

Now, I'm not sure I believe what I just posted but anyone can labor beaten opponents with post event assessments. Mayo beat a good Dublin team trying to peak for september and to suggest otherwise is nonsense.

In the past 2 years both teams have achieved more or less the same so I can't see how someof ye ate dismissing mayo's chances out of hand.

Spot on Zulu and we have been just as effective in adopting our style of play. In the past year we have beaten Cork, Kerry and the Dubs in CJroke Park and in all of these games we have shown we can mix it and grind out results. 

I have no problem with Donegal being talked up -better them than us. I would prefer to lose the favourites stakes and win the real thing. All this talking up of Donegal will make it twice as hard for them when they lose.

You have yourself convinced Mayo will win losing another final will be harder to take.

[cuconnacht]

Dia dhaoibh.
I've enjoyed reading this thread from the sublime to the ridiculous over the past 2 weeks or so.
Firstly, and very importantly I'd like to reiterate the huge amount of common ground shared between both Donegal and Mayo people. We've probably got more in common as people than Donegal do with some of their provincial compatriots and this is one reason I'm looking forward to Sunday. There simply isn't a single county in Ireland I'd rather lose a final to than Mayo.

Now to the football. O'Neill has had a good ould dig at the Mayo folk but his posts do register an admiration of Donegal 2012 which I welcome. In reality, I'd thought of posting on this and other forums in the lead up to the game over the past 2 weeks but there's been an abundance of bottom feeding around of late and it's difficult to try to have a debate around the finer points of next Sundays game. Of course, any debate about next Sunday serves only to whet the appetite and will have no bearing on proceedings but for what it's worth here's my 2c.

I think Donegal will win this game because they bring a level of intensity to the game of Gaelic football which no team in 2012 has been capable of dealing with. People will retort that I've bought into the hype but I'd consider myself a fairly well seasoned Gael and having watched Donegal in about 90% of their games to date the following ought to be noted.

1) League counts for nothing when measuring Donegal (they prepare for championship football)
2) The body shape of the entire panel (least so Michael Murphy) has changed dramatically over the past 12 months. Someone previously mentioned McFadden being well marked previously. I'd agree and retort that that was a very different Colm McFadden who could be man marked in that era by a very capable defender. Today I think it takes 2.
3) Donegal don't usually foul. It's become common knowledge that scoreable opportunities from free kicks are very few and far between against Donegal 2012. Look to the number of frees scored by Cork and Kerry in the previous two games for an example of this. To win this game Mayo will need to score regularly from play and not the placed ball.
4)  Donegal have not peaked. In general I feel they've improved from game to game this year and expect them to continue this trend on Sunday. The performance v Cork was far from polished and righting the mistakes therein will have been the focus of some of the past 3 weeks.
5) I don't believe any team plays 6-2-6 any longer or at least those who do don't last long enough to be analysed. In my own circle of discussion we hope that Mayo employ a traditional system but I don't believe Mayo or James Horan to be naive enough to do so. From what I've seen of Mayo this year and that's been 3 out of the 4 games they've played they seem similar to Donegal in the deployment of their half forward line, foraging deep for dirty ball and breaking at pace.

Comparing footballers from one team to the other doesn't really do an awful lot of justice either. Murphy is due a big game, is something I've heard bandied about from time to time but he's already had a number of them this year to date. His ball winning ability, distribution, link play and eye for a score as well as natural footballing talent make him the complete package. If we could clone him we'd find room for at least another 3 of him in our starting 15. He's our captain because he's our best footballer, and analysis which discounts his performance isn't accurate in my opinion.

There is also some sentiment in this thread that Mayo's all ireland final experience could see them through. I'd be inclined to think this the case had they won any of the previous encounters. This game will most probably be won by the best team. If that is the case I expect I'll be celebrating for the next 12 months with Sam in the Hills.

Dia dhuit agus failte DlGael.
(1) X.  Name a county from division 2,3, thats participated in an AI in the last 20 years,or a semi finalist not in div 1.Donegal fought for and retained div one status,vital to be playing top teams in the country from word go,anything else would presume an arrogance,Mc and Doney dont do that.
(2) +1.Very true but their no fitter.You,d be right about McF for lesser counties but yer talkn Mayo,one man will do that.
(3)+half.Dont foul! :Dbut mayo have the 40 yard kickers on the ground or in play to do this,and sittin back on a tiny lead is one thing but chase the game and leave us space at your peril.
(4)x. I thought they were outstanding against cork and never looked in trouble once,might be said that cork and short passes from the back played completely into yere hands though rather than usin their highball up the field or wing to thier giants,they bamboozeled themselves by changing their style of play and donegal sure made them pay.Mayo wont do that.
(5)+1.Spot on,6-2-6 is a long time dead
(Murphy)+1. Damn right.I beleive its only imbecile pundits who havent kicked a ball in donkeys who not seeing Murf on the score sheet question his form.Hes fantastic,and every game is a big game for ye with him doin the work he does,and can you clone 6 of him and give us 2,sure I think(might be wrong) he has some Mayo heritage anyway
Great lot in common betwixt us both culturally.We cut the path ta london,glascow an new york,ye came and sured up the job,handed on to na connemara who promptly escorted the rest o the Irish in,so in accordance with only real and secret "North Atlantic Treaty",keepn that order,ye give us the nod on sunday and we,ll keep tradition and not defend the title giving ye the nod same time next year,what says ya.All best on sunday, wheter or which ;)have ta go,wife at the door and im supposed to be doin me homework

[ONeill]

I attended the 1992 All-Ireland semi-final between these two counties and I can honestly say that it was the biggest waste of time and money in my life - it cost 3 punts to stand on the hill. The "football" played was shocking, but I fear this year's final will be worse.

I think we're in for clinker. Both counties are capable of posting decent scores from all over the field. You'll have 28 players covering every blade of grass if needs be. Donegal have scored some fine team goals this year. Overall I can see this final creating the same emotions experienced at a typical ladies game. You know the standard will be below average and there'll be some laugh out loud moments but you'll come away thinking that was enjoyable. It's refreshing and gives hope to all counties no matter their ability.

[GalwayBayBoy]

The build-up should be interesting anyway as I get the sense that both sets of supporters are relatively confident of victory which is often not the case in an All-Ireland final. There is no large Kerry shaped shadow looming over the final which would implant seeds of doubts amongst many opposition fans straight away.

Expect increased giddyness in the days ahead.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I attended the 1992 All-Ireland semi-final between these two counties and I can honestly say that it was the biggest waste of time and money in my life - it cost 3 punts to stand on the hill. The "football" played was shocking, but I fear this year's final will be worse.

I think we're in for clinker. Both counties are capable of posting decent scores from all over the field. You'll have 28 players covering every blade of grass if needs be. Donegal have scored some fine team goals this year. Overall I can see this final creating the same emotions experienced at a typical ladies game. You know the standard will be below average and there'll be some laugh out loud moments but you'll come away thinking that was enjoyable. It's refreshing and gives hope to all counties no matter their ability.

sounds like there is some bitterness in Owensland that they are hasbeens

[cuconnacht]

Jesus o'neill you put in some night last night trying to wind up the whole of mayo 

You would think that some would know better than rise to it

Ach no Ludemor,as tensions mount and nerves rise for The Heather and The O Donnel ls this thread will need a whippin boy to unleash the odd bit of spleen and theres no better Asal than that one,fair fecks to him.

[Crete Boom]

I attended the 1992 All-Ireland semi-final between these two counties and I can honestly say that it was the biggest waste of time and money in my life - it cost 3 punts to stand on the hill. The "football" played was shocking, but I fear this year's final will be worse.

I think we're in for clinker. Both counties are capable of posting decent scores from all over the field. You'll have 28 players covering every blade of grass if needs be. Donegal have scored some fine team goals this year. Overall I can see this final creating the same emotions experienced at a typical ladies game. You know the standard will be below average and there'll be some laugh out loud moments but you'll come away thinking that was enjoyable. It's refreshing and gives hope to all counties no matter their ability.

Hmmmmmm.... Interesting, gently poking the Donegal lads too so as to extract maxium wind up response later on in the week! Also skillful use of the token compliment wrapped up in a good few decisive insults. I think you are putting yourself into to position for wind up player of the year as well to go along with your wind up Allstar