All Ireland senior football final 2012 Donegal v Mayo

[iorras]

Lads we all know this is the Goal match in reverse and some other team has to be on the field for 70 odd minutes before they hand Donegal the cup they won back in August, but allow me a few moments of fantasy here, and let me do some whats ifs and the like and pretend it might be a contest, even though as the high priests of the Sunday Game have allready ruled on this one, I know I'm just being silly but paper never refused ink so hould on a minute.
I  think there is alot of relevance to what the wobbler says, and some of that relates to Donegals victory over Cork.  At a very simplistic level (my analysis, not saying Donegal are simple) Donegal basically clogged the central "channel" that day (same as Mayo did the year before when beating Cork) while Cork had relatively class forwards such as O'Neill, Kerrigan, Sheehan etc at various times standing inside in the corner 1:1 waiting for ball while Cork decided to play keep ball, passing it back and over around the 40. You could almost see the Donegal lads saying "thank you Mr Counihan". If Cork had played a game of fast ball in to those forwards they would at least have kept Donegal guessing, instead they became utterly predictable, Donegal worked their arses off and picked off very good scores in the second half so that Cork resorted to panicing. They were panicing from 50 minutes on when the game was still there to be won. So what the hell has that got to do with the final? I think Mayo are very capable of varying it, they showed against Dublin and against Down that somehow, even though no one rates them, their 6 forwards are capable of winning a ball in front and kicking it over the bar. They can vary it between hitting long ball into the corners or hitting it out to the 40 and scoring from both locations. I dont think Donegal have really encountered that before.
Mayo have 5 players starting who have U-21 all ireland medals in their arse pockets, if Donegal having a great U-21 team is constantly quoted as being a positive for them then that has to count as something for Mayo as well.  Mayo have Cian O'Neill a man who has managed to get teams up the physicality stakes required to win a senior hurling all ireland against Kilkenny. I dont know if any of you have been to a senior intercounty match recently, but football pales into comparison with some of the banging going on in hurling matches these days.
Back to football for a minute, rather then the plus and minus columns,  and anything we can learn from previous games, one thing that concerns me from a Mayo perspective is midfield, 2004 and 2006 were lost primarily because Mayo were absolutley massacred in midfield. This year Dublin won an awful lot of the kickouts against Mayo but Mayo managed to turn the ball over consistently, turning that ball into scores and annoying the shite outta Dublin. Donegal killed, what I would have regarded as before hand, a very good Cork midfield in the semi. If the same pattern continues and Donegal win the primary share of kickouts, I cant see them turning that ball over again, they havent in the past, and that I think is the key to the result. If Mayo break even at midfield I think they will win by one or two points, if they dont then Donegal will win, barring some seriously bad shooting in front of goals.

[Mayo Mick]

Donegal confidence is born out of lack of understanding of what it takes to win an AI and a significant over estimation of their season so far. They beat ageing and slowing Tyrone Cork and Kerry teams. Sunday they will face a pacy and fit team that they will not dominate at midfield as they did v Cork. I expect we will be out of the blocks faster and we wll see what Donegal are made of ad they chase a 5 or 6 point lead

Overall we have the better players in 9/10 positions and to be honest I can't see us losing to an average enough over hyped outfit.

[Onion Bag]

Really looking forward to this, there is bound to be a Pitch invasion

[iorras]

Really looking forward to this, there is bound to be a Pitch invasion

We'd never make it down from the corporate box in time if there is one, will they be showing the soccer on floor 6 I wonder?

[Lar Naparka]

Excellent. One point - Mayo's meanest defence -  in the All-Ireland series - 2-9 and 0-16 against. That 0-16 also included 2 great goal chances for the opposition. Outside of their provincial run (Leitrim and Sligo) I don't buy that. In the league 0-17 against Donegal, 1-13 against Down, 0-14 against Cork, 1-12 against Kerry, 2-10 against Coark again. Seems average.

Whoa there, Nelly, whoa!
I said meanest not tightest.
Any Donegal bucko who expects to savour the sweet taste of success on Sunday will find himself ingesting a few gobfuls of Croke Park soil before he knows what's hit him.
Mayo backs don't do prisoners- hostages maybe but no encumbrances of any sort.
Be forewarned!

[dlgael]

Dia dhaoibh.
I've enjoyed reading this thread from the sublime to the ridiculous over the past 2 weeks or so.
Firstly, and very importantly I'd like to reiterate the huge amount of common ground shared between both Donegal and Mayo people. We've probably got more in common as people than Donegal do with some of their provincial compatriots and this is one reason I'm looking forward to Sunday. There simply isn't a single county in Ireland I'd rather lose a final to than Mayo.

Now to the football. O'Neill has had a good ould dig at the Mayo folk but his posts do register an admiration of Donegal 2012 which I welcome. In reality, I'd thought of posting on this and other forums in the lead up to the game over the past 2 weeks but there's been an abundance of bottom feeding around of late and it's difficult to try to have a debate around the finer points of next Sundays game. Of course, any debate about next Sunday serves only to whet the appetite and will have no bearing on proceedings but for what it's worth here's my 2c.

I think Donegal will win this game because they bring a level of intensity to the game of Gaelic football which no team in 2012 has been capable of dealing with. People will retort that I've bought into the hype but I'd consider myself a fairly well seasoned Gael and having watched Donegal in about 90% of their games to date the following ought to be noted.

1) League counts for nothing when measuring Donegal (they prepare for championship football)
2) The body shape of the entire panel (least so Michael Murphy) has changed dramatically over the past 12 months. Someone previously mentioned McFadden being well marked previously. I'd agree and retort that that was a very different Colm McFadden who could be man marked in that era by a very capable defender. Today I think it takes 2.
3) Donegal don't usually foul. It's become common knowledge that scoreable opportunities from free kicks are very few and far between against Donegal 2012. Look to the number of frees scored by Cork and Kerry in the previous two games for an example of this. To win this game Mayo will need to score regularly from play and not the placed ball.
4)  Donegal have not peaked. In general I feel they've improved from game to game this year and expect them to continue this trend on Sunday. The performance v Cork was far from polished and righting the mistakes therein will have been the focus of some of the past 3 weeks.
5) I don't believe any team plays 6-2-6 any longer or at least those who do don't last long enough to be analysed. In my own circle of discussion we hope that Mayo employ a traditional system but I don't believe Mayo or James Horan to be naive enough to do so. From what I've seen of Mayo this year and that's been 3 out of the 4 games they've played they seem similar to Donegal in the deployment of their half forward line, foraging deep for dirty ball and breaking at pace.

Comparing footballers from one team to the other doesn't really do an awful lot of justice either. Murphy is due a big game, is something I've heard bandied about from time to time but he's already had a number of them this year to date. His ball winning ability, distribution, link play and eye for a score as well as natural footballing talent make him the complete package. If we could clone him we'd find room for at least another 3 of him in our starting 15. He's our captain because he's our best footballer, and analysis which discounts his performance isn't accurate in my opinion.

There is also some sentiment in this thread that Mayo's all ireland final experience could see them through. I'd be inclined to think this the case had they won any of the previous encounters. This game will most probably be won by the best team. If that is the case I expect I'll be celebrating for the next 12 months with Sam in the Hills.

[joemamas]

Lot of very good analysis in past two days. Will give my own two cents worth tomorrow.

[Mayo Mick]

Good post DGael but think you are over estimating this intensity thing. Mayo will match ye in any intensity or physicality stakes. As for fouling don't expect Deegan to be as lenient as Goldrick was - ye got away with a lot of fouling v Cork. Until now everybody is caught up in hype about Donegal. Ye wont know ye're weaknesses and limitations until Sunday evening. By then it wil be too late.

[Mano]

Good post DGael but think you are over estimating this intensity thing. Mayo will match ye in any intensity or physicality stakes. As for fouling don't expect Deegan to be as lenient as Goldrick was - ye got away with a lot of fouling v Cork. Until now everybody is caught up in hype about Donegal. Ye wont know ye're weaknesses and limitations until Sunday evening. By then it wil be too late.

Sligo played a similar system to Donegal this year in the Connaught final albeit with players of lesser ability and lesser physical size and conditioning and Mayo struggled big time. Sligo players swarmed around the man with the ball and Mayo invariably turned over the ball or rushed their shots.

A positive for Mayo is they have played against this type of system in this years championship and also that their defense was very disciplined in that they didn't lose their shape. Keith Higgins stayed in position in front of full forward line and is likely to play a similar role on Sunday. Another positive is Mayo didn't expect Sligo to play the way they did but know exactly Donegals tactics and should have a gameplan in place to counteract that.

Best of luck to my neighbours, Mayo on Sunday. I hope ye finally get the monkey off your back

[AZOffaly]

I think that's they key against Donegal. You have to be patient, and you have to be economical with your shots. what you can't do is over commit going forward because if you get stranded on the wrong side of a Donegal counter attack you're going to be in big trouble, because they come forward in waves.

Mayo are fit, and maybe they can run with Donegal, but I doubt if that's a sustainable approach, so I'd be inclined to think they will have to kick points from 40 metres or so, to try and open up the Donegal defense and bring them out a bit. Then you can start feeding the inside men. But if Mayo half backs start attacking and soloing into trouble, or turning the ball over, it's a recipe for disaster.

[iorras]

Dia dhaoibh.
I've enjoyed reading this thread from the sublime to the ridiculous over the past 2 weeks or so.
Firstly, and very importantly I'd like to reiterate the huge amount of common ground shared between both Donegal and Mayo people. We've probably got more in common as people than Donegal do with some of their provincial compatriots and this is one reason I'm looking forward to Sunday. There simply isn't a single county in Ireland I'd rather lose a final to than Mayo.

Now to the football. O'Neill has had a good ould dig at the Mayo folk but his posts do register an admiration of Donegal 2012 which I welcome. In reality, I'd thought of posting on this and other forums in the lead up to the game over the past 2 weeks but there's been an abundance of bottom feeding around of late and it's difficult to try to have a debate around the finer points of next Sundays game. Of course, any debate about next Sunday serves only to whet the appetite and will have no bearing on proceedings but for what it's worth here's my 2c.

I think Donegal will win this game because they bring a level of intensity to the game of Gaelic football which no team in 2012 has been capable of dealing with. People will retort that I've bought into the hype but I'd consider myself a fairly well seasoned Gael and having watched Donegal in about 90% of their games to date the following ought to be noted.

1) League counts for nothing when measuring Donegal (they prepare for championship football)
2) The body shape of the entire panel (least so Michael Murphy) has changed dramatically over the past 12 months. Someone previously mentioned McFadden being well marked previously. I'd agree and retort that that was a very different Colm McFadden who could be man marked in that era by a very capable defender. Today I think it takes 2.
3) Donegal don't usually foul. It's become common knowledge that scoreable opportunities from free kicks are very few and far between against Donegal 2012. Look to the number of frees scored by Cork and Kerry in the previous two games for an example of this. To win this game Mayo will need to score regularly from play and not the placed ball.
4)  Donegal have not peaked. In general I feel they've improved from game to game this year and expect them to continue this trend on Sunday. The performance v Cork was far from polished and righting the mistakes therein will have been the focus of some of the past 3 weeks.
5) I don't believe any team plays 6-2-6 any longer or at least those who do don't last long enough to be analysed. In my own circle of discussion we hope that Mayo employ a traditional system but I don't believe Mayo or James Horan to be naive enough to do so. From what I've seen of Mayo this year and that's been 3 out of the 4 games they've played they seem similar to Donegal in the deployment of their half forward line, foraging deep for dirty ball and breaking at pace.

Comparing footballers from one team to the other doesn't really do an awful lot of justice either. Murphy is due a big game, is something I've heard bandied about from time to time but he's already had a number of them this year to date. His ball winning ability, distribution, link play and eye for a score as well as natural footballing talent make him the complete package. If we could clone him we'd find room for at least another 3 of him in our starting 15. He's our captain because he's our best footballer, and analysis which discounts his performance isn't accurate in my opinion.

There is also some sentiment in this thread that Mayo's all ireland final experience could see them through. I'd be inclined to think this the case had they won any of the previous encounters. This game will most probably be won by the best team. If that is the case I expect I'll be celebrating for the next 12 months with Sam in the Hills.

County name change, one or two names and one word and tis all the one. Thats the fantastic thing that most experts and Donegal people have overlooked, their's a system to Mayo's play as well and its not that different to Donegals. There is one major difference in that Mayo appear to have two styles of play which they alternate, Donegal only appear to have one, albeit a very effective one. Handy to have a plan B though. Alot of this build up reminds me of the build up to the quarter finals last year, nobody "in the know" could possibly concieve anything but a savage batin for Mayo then.

1) League counts for nothing when measuring Mayo (they prepare for championship football)
2) The body shape of the entire panel (least so Aidan O'Shea) has changed dramatically over the past 12 months. Someone previously mentioned Dillon being well marked previously. I'd agree and retort that that was a very different Alan Dillon who could be man marked in that era by a very capable defender. Today I think it takes 2.
3) Mayo don't usually foul. It's become common knowledge that scoreable opportunities from free kicks are very few and far between against Mayo 2012. Look to the number of frees scored by Down and Dublin in the previous two games for an example of this. To win this game Donegal will need to score regularly from play and not the placed ball.
4)  Mayo have not peaked. In general I feel they've improved from game to game this year and expect them to continue this trend on Sunday. The performance v Dublin was far from polished and righting the mistakes therein will have been the focus of some of the past 3 weeks.
5) I don't believe any team plays 6-2-6 any longer or at least those who do don't last long enough to be analysed. In my own circle of discussion we hope that Donegal employ their traditional system but I don't believe Donegal or the Messiah to be naive enough to do so. From what I've seen of Donegal this year and that's been 3 out of the 4 games they've played they seem similar to Donegal in the deployment of their half forward line, foraging deep for dirty ball and breaking at pace.

[IolarCoisCuain]

Can some fcuker from Mayo, just one, have a go and attempt to formulate a small tactical analysis as to how they can approach this and win it?

Who do you think will be your key men? Where are the Donegal weaknesses? What can you do that Kerry and Cork couldn't?

Even someone who isn't from Mayo but gives them a chance. And none of this cute hoorism of giving it a lash. McGuinness shites lashes.

Have you much down on Donegal O'Neill? Is it just all your worldly goods or have you been getting a few loans and putting them down as well?

[ballinaman]

Can some fcuker from Mayo, just one, have a go and attempt to formulate a small tactical analysis as to how they can approach this and win it?

Who do you think will be your key men? Where are the Donegal weaknesses? What can you do that Kerry and Cork couldn't?

Even someone who isn't from Mayo but gives them a chance. And none of this cute hoorism of giving it a lash. McGuinness shites lashes.

Have you much down on Donegal O'Neill? Is it just all your worldly goods or have you been getting a few loans and putting them down as well?

I put 20 euro on Donegal at 14/1 in February  ......paddy power can keep it

[BennyHarp]

Donegal confidence is born out of lack of understanding of what it takes to win an AI and a significant over estimation of their season so far. They beat ageing and slowing Tyrone Cork and Kerry teams. Sunday they will face a pacy and fit team that they will not dominate at midfield as they did v Cork. I expect we will be out of the blocks faster and we wll see what Donegal are made of ad they chase a 5 or 6 point lead

Overall we have the better players in 9/10 positions and to be honest I can't see us losing to an average enough over hyped outfit.

And Mayo have hardly beaten the cream of GAA on their way to the final - Leitrim and Sligo followed by a demoralised Down team and a Dublin team that was a poor shadow of the team that won the previous AI. Please explain how, all of a sudden, Mayo have now acquired a deep understanding of what it takes to win an AI?

[Muckel]

There is no doubt that Donegal are the favorites going into this final and rightly so. They have taken the scalps of Cork and Kerry and were very impressive in the quality of their football and level of fitness.

Mayo have been very impressive in their scoring ability which they were not noted for in previous championships. They scored the highest score of the championship this year so far in beating Leitrim. The Mayo defence kept Dublin goalless. This is impressive in that Dublin scored two goals in every match to date bar the Laois match where they scored one.

I believe Donegal peaked in the Cork game. I believe Mayo have not peaked yet. Witness Aidan O'Shea coming off in the second half. Mind you he only came back in the second half of the Connacht final after a long injury. However Mayo are the team who can improve the most from their semifinal. If they can keep up the intensity of the first 50 minutes of the semifinal for the full 70 minutes of the final they will win. Not by much but by a goal......the one Donegal will not score!!