Dublin v Mayo - AISF

[Hardy]

Watching the game on Sunday, I felt that, while McQuillan was making lots of wrong calls, he still managed to get to the end without any major incident.
Since then, I've had a good luck at a video of the game and I've revised my opinion- he made an ass's haemes of it.
I'm not saying that all his wrong calls favoured the Dubs; he let Mayo lads away with a few double hops and he managed to yellow the wrong man even after consulting with his officials.
Maybe his linesmen and umpires were at fault in some cases also- the umpire on the nearest side should have spotted that McMenamon had shinned the ball over the line when a 45 was awarded to Dublin, which Clucko pointed. That was no fault of the Dubs but that point might well have proved crucial.
The umpires at the other end were up to their task either.
I don't know what led up to the incident where McMahon dropped Varley with an elbow jab but the umpires at the Dublin end should have been on the watch out for off the ball incidents. However, what happened next does concern me.
Varley was clearly stunned as he lay on the ground and O'Carroll proceeded  to grab him and dragged him to his feet and then gave him a few good shakes. That was an extremely dangerous thing to do as Varley could have had a brain or a spine injury. He put up no resistance and it should have been obvious to all that he was genuinely injured.
Yet McQuillan made no big deal of it. Neither did his umpires.
Thankfully, it appears that he wasn't seriously injured and is making a good recovery but things might have gone seriously wrong for him if he had been.  McStay in his commentary reckoned that O'Carroll should have been given a yellow card but it's going to take more than yellow cards to put an end to this practice of players dragging others on the ground around the place. This wasn't the first such incident and it won't be the last until it's made a sending off offence.  I'm not thinking of what happened on Sunday only - it goes on all the time.

Lar on the intial elbow that caused the injury that appears to have been a genuine clash and an injury caused without malice, however the behaviour of Rory O' Carroll lifting, shaking and pulling at Varley was a disgrace. I understand his behaviour warrented only a yellow according to the rules. This needs to be addressed, the GAA are rightly gettting all high and mighty over a possible incident following a pitch invasion when celebrating fans enter the pitch, but when a lad receives a traumatic brain injury in one of this incidents they will see whats what.

I agree that Varley's genuine injury seemed to be accidental. And, for the sake of safety, I'd reluctantly agree that O'Carroll's offence should be a red card. But I have no doubt that O'Carroll thought Varley was feigning. Such a thought would never have occurred to him if feigning hadn't become endemic in the game. So if roughing up a player on the ground is to be a red card, feigning should be a red card, six months and a penalty kick.

I don't think it was up to O'Carroll to decide if Varley's injuries were genuine or not and when he assumed that they weren't, what he did next was potentially life-threatening. From an early stage, players on both sides realised that McQuillan wasn't able to control the game and they reacted accordingly. 
Mayo committed a lot of tactical fouls when the tide was running in Dublin's favour and Dublin, not to be outdone, went in for the ordinary decent type of fouls like foot trips and digs.
I doubt very much that O'Carroll would have proceeded to rough up Varley as he lay motionless on the ground if he knew he was in danger of being red-carded.

Missed my point completely there, Lar.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

I don't think it was up to O'Carroll to decide if Varley's injuries were genuine or not and when he assumed that they weren't, what he did next was potentially life-threatening.   

If a bloody nose counts in Mayo as potentially life threatening, that explains a lot about the amount of Mayo players hitting the deck on Sunday.

[maigheo]

I don't know of anyone who has an 'in between' view of Maughan.

you are probably right farandeelin but it drives me crazy when I hear soft aul chat like"shur if we only had Micko in charge we would have won the 1996 final".Were the county board going to fire J.M after beating Kerry in the all ireland semi final?For some reason we love to knock our own and if Dublin had completed there comeback we would be saying that Horan was the worst manager in history and if only we had a more experienced manager we would have prevailed.Anyways rant over and lets concentrate on the final and how we are going to beat Donegal so we will not have to be dredging  it up in 15 or 20 years time.

[Farrandeelin]

Anyway, Dublin's comeback was more down to frees than exhiliarating scores in my opinion. Look at those last 26 minutes again, it's not as if they were scoring points like Mayo were. Mayo scored some great points on Sunday.

[sans pessimism]

I don't think it was up to O'Carroll to decide if Varley's injuries were genuine or not and when he assumed that they weren't, what he did next was potentially life-threatening.   

If a bloody nose counts in Mayo as potentially life threatening, that explains a lot about the amount of Mayo players hitting the deck on Sunday.

And Dr O Carroll knew at the time that there was no injury??.The Jackeen was WRONG end of.

[Lar Naparka]

Watching the game on Sunday, I felt that, while McQuillan was making lots of wrong calls, he still managed to get to the end without any major incident.
Since then, I've had a good luck at a video of the game and I've revised my opinion- he made an ass's haemes of it.
I'm not saying that all his wrong calls favoured the Dubs; he let Mayo lads away with a few double hops and he managed to yellow the wrong man even after consulting with his officials.
Maybe his linesmen and umpires were at fault in some cases also- the umpire on the nearest side should have spotted that McMenamon had shinned the ball over the line when a 45 was awarded to Dublin, which Clucko pointed. That was no fault of the Dubs but that point might well have proved crucial.
The umpires at the other end were up to their task either.
I don't know what led up to the incident where McMahon dropped Varley with an elbow jab but the umpires at the Dublin end should have been on the watch out for off the ball incidents. However, what happened next does concern me.
Varley was clearly stunned as he lay on the ground and O'Carroll proceeded  to grab him and dragged him to his feet and then gave him a few good shakes. That was an extremely dangerous thing to do as Varley could have had a brain or a spine injury. He put up no resistance and it should have been obvious to all that he was genuinely injured.
Yet McQuillan made no big deal of it. Neither did his umpires.
Thankfully, it appears that he wasn't seriously injured and is making a good recovery but things might have gone seriously wrong for him if he had been.  McStay in his commentary reckoned that O'Carroll should have been given a yellow card but it's going to take more than yellow cards to put an end to this practice of players dragging others on the ground around the place. This wasn't the first such incident and it won't be the last until it's made a sending off offence.  I'm not thinking of what happened on Sunday only - it goes on all the time.

Lar on the intial elbow that caused the injury that appears to have been a genuine clash and an injury caused without malice, however the behaviour of Rory O' Carroll lifting, shaking and pulling at Varley was a disgrace. I understand his behaviour warrented only a yellow according to the rules. This needs to be addressed, the GAA are rightly gettting all high and mighty over a possible incident following a pitch invasion when celebrating fans enter the pitch, but when a lad receives a traumatic brain injury in one of this incidents they will see whats what.

I agree that Varley's genuine injury seemed to be accidental. And, for the sake of safety, I'd reluctantly agree that O'Carroll's offence should be a red card. But I have no doubt that O'Carroll thought Varley was feigning. Such a thought would never have occurred to him if feigning hadn't become endemic in the game. So if roughing up a player on the ground is to be a red card, feigning should be a red card, six months and a penalty kick.

I don't think it was up to O'Carroll to decide if Varley's injuries were genuine or not and when he assumed that they weren't, what he did next was potentially life-threatening. From an early stage, players on both sides realised that McQuillan wasn't able to control the game and they reacted accordingly. 
Mayo committed a lot of tactical fouls when the tide was running in Dublin's favour and Dublin, not to be outdone, went in for the ordinary decent type of fouls like foot trips and digs.
I doubt very much that O'Carroll would have proceeded to rough up Varley as he lay motionless on the ground if he knew he was in danger of being red-carded.

Missed my point completely there, Lar.

My apologies if I have misread your comments but I can't see how I did this. I certainly agree that Varley was genuinely injured but, for me, that has no bearing on what O'Carroll proceeded to do to him. I believe that O'Carroll's assault on Varley should be judged on its merits.
He is entitled to his opinion, like everyone  else, but but acting on his belief is quite another matter.
Yup, feigning injury has become endemic in GAA matches and I wouldn't mind if a transgressor got all you say and maybe a good toe up the hole into the bargain but that doesn't mean any other player should be allowed take the law into his hands.
I don't know whose safety you had in mind when you reluctantly agree that O'Carroll should have received a red card but a red card would mean sweet shag all to Varley if his injuries had been aggravated because of O'Carroll's actions.
This is what Syferus had to say and I completely agree with him:
"It wasn't borderline at all. O'Carroll actually looked over in the direction of McQuillan and continued dragging Varley up and down for about three more seconds. I was over near that corner and the length of time O'Carroll spent at Varley was pretty sickening to watch. He lost his head completely and it should have been a very easy decision to send him off."
You appear to think differently. If so, you might care to elaborate.

[Lar Naparka]

Moysider:

Lar we did lose our shape. In fact we collapsed as badly as any time in the past and if we had lost it after the lead we had it would have been the worst defeat of all our bad days.

I suggest you should consider what Farrandeelin has to say on the matter. I totally agree with his assessment.

The difference between last day and 96/97 was that we managed to survive one of the most desperate set of circumstances a team will face at that level. And the sideline kept it s cool when whole families, who couldn t be there, were cowering behind the sofa.

That's exactly what I've been saying, isn't it?

Lads that were kept in reserve had to be thrown in early and sick and stitched players like Boyle and McLoughlin had to be used and reintroduced.

Again, I'm in total agreement with you.

96/97 we got a lot wrong but that s the way it goes.

No problem with that. I've been comparing waht we saw last Sunday with what happend in '96.

About the BB goal chance. That was a save by Clarkie.

Exactly, Clarkie kept his cool. Contrast that with Madden in '96.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

I don't think it was up to O'Carroll to decide if Varley's injuries were genuine or not and when he assumed that they weren't, what he did next was potentially life-threatening.   

If a bloody nose counts in Mayo as potentially life threatening, that explains a lot about the amount of Mayo players hitting the deck on Sunday.

Head injuries should always be treated as potentially dangerous until known otherwise.

[Lar Naparka]

I don't know of anyone who has an 'in between' view of Maughan.

you are probably right farandeelin but it drives me crazy when I hear soft aul chat like"shur if we only had Micko in charge we would have won the 1996 final".Were the county board going to fire J.M after beating Kerry in the all ireland semi final?For some reason we love to knock our own and if Dublin had completed there comeback we would be saying that Horan was the worst manager in history and if only we had a more experienced manager we would have prevailed.Anyways rant over and lets concentrate on the final and how we are going to beat Donegal so we will not have to be dredging  it up in 15 or 20 years time.

I have great respect for John Maughan. I don't think he gets the credit that's due for what he achieved with Mayo.  He took a team that was going nowhere and turned it into the best side in the land by the AIF of '96.
He has brought Mayo to more AIFs than any other manager in its history.
But he did panic in the closing stages of that final as did the entire team.
I was there and I had a clear view of him as he paced up and down and turned his back, unable to watch, when Mayo were awarded a free in in the closing minutes.
Would Micko have done better than John Maughan? Well 'Badger' Glesson thought he could and that hoor has at least two more AI medals than I have.
No one can really answer that but I well believe that he might have and no, I wasn't one of the those who called for John's resignation either.
In times of pressure players tend to seek reassurance from the sideline and if they have no clear guidance they will retreat into their 'comfort zone' and where they  tend to avoid mistakes and shirk taking on responsibility.
(That's coming to you, courtesy of James Horan who stated it in one of his pieces from the Mayo Advertiser. The bould Jimmy was (is?)one of the most insightful sports analysts I have come across.)

[Lar Naparka]

I don't think it was up to O'Carroll to decide if Varley's injuries were genuine or not and when he assumed that they weren't, what he did next was potentially life-threatening.   

If a bloody nose counts in Mayo as potentially life threatening, that explains a lot about the amount of Mayo players hitting the deck on Sunday.

FFS, that doesn't merit a reply never mind a response.
I'd say you are a complete gobshite but I don't want to sink to that level.



(However, that doesn't stop me thinking it.)

[Jell 0 Biafra]

Look, O'Carroll shouldn't have done what he did, but Jesus, some of the remarks on here about the Mayo lad's life being in danger are just plain ridiculous.  The chances of that kind of knock threatening a life are vanishingly small, and you know it.

[sans pessimism]

Look, O'Carroll shouldn't have done what he did, but Jesus, some of the remarks on here about the Mayo lad's life being in danger are just plain ridiculous.  The chances of that kind of knock threatening a life are vanishingly small, and you know it.

So its ok to drag an opponent around the place
safe in the knowledge that they wont die......idiot

[Jell 0 Biafra]

Read the first sentence....idiot.

[sans pessimism]

Look, O'Carroll shouldn't have done what he did, but Jesus, some of the remarks on here about the Mayo lad's life being in danger are just plain ridiculous.  The chances of that kind of knock threatening a life are vanishingly small, and you know it.

So its ok to drag an opponent around the place
safe in the knowledge that they wont die......idiot

read my last word

[Mac2]

I don't know of anyone who has an 'in between' view of Maughan.

you are probably right farandeelin but it drives me crazy when I hear soft aul chat like"shur if we only had Micko in charge we would have won the 1996 final".Were the county board going to fire J.M after beating Kerry in the all ireland semi final?For some reason we love to knock our own and if Dublin had completed there comeback we would be saying that Horan was the worst manager in history and if only we had a more experienced manager we would have prevailed.Anyways rant over and lets concentrate on the final and how we are going to beat Donegal so we will not have to be dredging  it up in 15 or 20 years time.

I have great respect for John Maughan. I don't think he gets the credit that's due for what he achieved with Mayo.  He took a team that was going nowhere and turned it into the best side in the land by the AIF of '96.
He has brought Mayo to more AIFs than any other manager in its history.
But he did panic in the closing stages of that final as did the entire team.
I was there and I had a clear view of him as he paced up and down and turned his back, unable to watch, when Mayo were awarded a free in in the closing minutes.
Would Micko have done better than John Maughan? Well 'Badger' Glesson thought he could and that hoor has at least two more AI medals than I have.
No one can really answer that but I well believe that he might have and no, I wasn't one of the those who called for John's resignation either.
In times of pressure players tend to seek reassurance from the sideline and if they have no clear guidance they will retreat into their 'comfort zone' and where they  tend to avoid mistakes and shirk taking on responsibility.
(That's coming to you, courtesy of James Horan who stated it in one of his pieces from the Mayo Advertiser. The bould Jimmy was (is?)one of the most insightful sports analysts I have come across.)

I think it's a case of history being written by the victors, if Brogan's goal went in Mayo would not have survived. It would've been deemed one of the most calamitous collapses in a semi final ever. The sideline had a lot to contend with but AOS was out on his feet he should have been called ashore sooner, the Mayo backs were being left one on one with their men, surely an extra defender was required.