EURO 2012

[seafoid]

Question for you: Ireland qualified again for this one after missing out on the last 4 tournaments.  Now which would you prefer (a) Ireland reach the next 4 tournaments with the same outcome as this one (b) they miss the next four tournaments but reach the fifth one with a new generation of kids who can play intelligent creative football.

Is that what the choice is? No other possible outcomes for Irish soccer?

Deiseach

I thought it was like the 2008 hurling final. Or any recent Galway-Kilkenny match. 

[thewobbler]

Your preference would be to not bother entering the Euros or the World Cup? Correct?

No. Are you willfully missing the point? You support the team and hope they qualify which they did BUT they are shite, depressing and they leave me cold.

Are you saying people should just move on with an "ah they did their best" and try to scuff and hoof their way through the next qualification campaign?

Question for you: Ireland qualified again for this one after missing out on the last 4 tournaments.  Now which would you prefer (a) Ireland reach the next 4 tournaments with the same outcome as this one (b) they miss the next four tournaments but reach the fifth one with a new generation of kids who can play intelligent creative football.

That's absolutely the maddest 'one or other' scenario ever. The style of football in 2014 will have nothing to do with the style of football in in 2020. If you want to start from scratch with a footballing ethos, the senior team is the last one to see the impact.

Secondly, miss out on 4 qualifications in a row and we're gone forever. You can't qualify for a championship as a 4th or 5th seed in qualifying. Scotland, Wales and NI prove this every time.

[puskas]

Question for you: Ireland qualified again for this one after missing out on the last 4 tournaments.  Now which would you prefer (a) Ireland reach the next 4 tournaments with the same outcome as this one (b) they miss the next four tournaments but reach the fifth one with a new generation of kids who can play intelligent creative football.

Is that what the choice is? No other possible outcomes for Irish soccer?

The other outcome is the slide to Scotland/Northern Ireland/Wales level, i.e. the same old same old only without a canny manager and without qualification. People aspire to (a) and think it's great because it's better than not qualifying and sure you can have a bit of craic every 2 or 4 years on the Continent.

[deiseach]

The other outcome is the slide to Scotland/Northern Ireland/Wales level, i.e. the same old same old only without a canny manager and without qualification. People aspire to (a) and think it's great because it's better than not qualifying and sure you can have a bit of craic every 2 or 4 years on the Continent.

Ireland's natural level is not to qualify. So (a) would be pretty darn good.

[deiseach]

Deiseach

I thought it was like the 2008 hurling final. Or any recent Galway-Kilkenny match.

Indeed. The first step to sporting nirvana is accepting that someone has to finish last.

[puskas]

The other outcome is the slide to Scotland/Northern Ireland/Wales level, i.e. the same old same old only without a canny manager and without qualification. People aspire to (a) and think it's great because it's better than not qualifying and sure you can have a bit of craic every 2 or 4 years on the Continent.

Ireland's natural level is not to qualify. So (a) would be pretty darn good.

if the goal is merely to qualify then it is pretty darn good, but now that we've got there, have you enjoyed the tournament from an Irish perspective?

and why should Ireland have a 'natural' level not to qualify anyway? does Croatia have a "natural" level? Denmark? they're not bigger countries, they're not more special 'naturally' talented than us, are they?

[Declan]

and why should Ireland have a 'natural' level not to qualify anyway? does Croatia have a "natural" level? Denmark? they're not bigger countries, they're not more special 'naturally' talented than us, are they?

Spot on

[Hound]

No idea if what he says is true or not, but I've heard Johnny Giles say a number of times that when the Charlton chairman sacked Alan Curbishley the reason he gave was "I was sick of us always finishing 8th". When Curbishley went he no longer had to worry about finishing 8th!

The current Irish team is nowhere near the worst team we've ever had, but it is by a good distance the worst team we've had qualify for a major tournament. We have to make try and make sure we keep at the level of the Danes and Swedes and don't drop to the level of the Scots, Welsh, Fins. It won't be easy given the talent pool available. 

[deiseach]

if the goal is merely to qualify then it is pretty darn good, but now that we've got there, have you enjoyed the tournament from an Irish perspective?

I've gotten enjoyment from it, just as I always get enjoyment from following Waterford. Even in September 2008.

and why should Ireland have a 'natural' level not to qualify anyway? does Croatia have a "natural" level? Denmark? they're not bigger countries, they're not more special 'naturally' talented than us, are they?

We can always aspire to do better, no doubt about it. But history and circumstance suggest Ireland simply are not at their level. Those countries have professional leagues. We . . .don't. That's how far off the pace we are and the changes required to bring us to their level would be so  fundamental that I question anyone who thinks they have the answers.

[seafoid]

and why should Ireland have a 'natural' level not to qualify anyway? does Croatia have a "natural" level? Denmark? they're not bigger countries, they're not more special 'naturally' talented than us, are they?

Spot on

Austria, Belgium, Switzerland, Turkey and Slovakia have bigger populations than the 26 counties and are watching the tournament at home .

Belgium have been shite for at least a decade. Austria hasn't had a decent team for longer than that. 
Talented teams come around every so often for smaller countries. It's the same in the GAA for counties like Longford and Armagh.   
Croatia will be back in the doldrums at some stage. England won't win anything . 

[spuds]

No idea if what he says is true or not, but I've heard Johnny Giles say a number of times that when the Charlton chairman sacked Alan Curbishley the reason he gave was "I was sick of us always finishing 8th". When Curbishley went he no longer had to worry about finishing 8th!

The current Irish team is nowhere near the worst team we've ever had, but it is by a good distance the worst team we've had qualify for a major tournament. We have to make try and make sure we keep at the level of the Danes and Swedes and don't drop to the level of the Scots, Welsh, Fins. It won't be easy given the talent pool available.

Good post, some of the people talking about embarrassment and better off not qualifying have to consider again the quality of the Spanish side last night. The few times we had the ball were nearly more worrying as we invariably handed the ball back to them and they zipped the ball about accurately. Was a no contest and a humbling experience, felt sory for Given, Dunne, Keane, Duff and O'Shea, their dedication to Ireland over the years has been admirable and this felt like the beginning of the end for their international careers.

[orangeman]

Watching the post match reaction last night and when Keane came out with what he did, a friend of mine said to me " that Keane's one hateful **** but you know what ? He's 100% right !.".

No shame for Ireland to be bate by Spain 4-0.

It could have been an awful lot worse.

[seafoid]

if the goal is merely to qualify then it is pretty darn good, but now that we've got there, have you enjoyed the tournament from an Irish perspective?

I've gotten enjoyment from it, just as I always get enjoyment from following Waterford. Even in September 2008.

and why should Ireland have a 'natural' level not to qualify anyway? does Croatia have a "natural" level? Denmark? they're not bigger countries, they're not more special 'naturally' talented than us, are they?

We can always aspire to do better, no doubt about it. But history and circumstance suggest Ireland simply are not at their level. Those countries have professional leagues. We . . .don't. That's how far off the pace we are and the changes required to bring us to their level would be so  fundamental that I question anyone who thinks they have the answers.

Based on a superficial knowledge of Panini products I believe most Danish players play abroad. It is the same for the other small countries- how many Croats play in Croatia ? Any Swiss player who is half decent plays abroad. You can't really support a decent football league with a population less than 10  million.  When is the last time Anderlecht won anything?  Even Ajax have trouble these days.

[nifan]

Id be delighted for NI to qualify for a tournament - even if it meant getting duffed 4-0 by one of the best teams in the world.

Id be unhappy of they played badly - as ireland did last night - but to rather not qualify is madness

[Billys Boots]

and why should Ireland have a 'natural' level not to qualify anyway? does Croatia have a "natural" level? Denmark? they're not bigger countries, they're not more special 'naturally' talented than us, are they?

Spot on

Austria, Belgium, Switzerland, Turkey and Slovakia have bigger populations than the 26 counties and are watching the tournament at home .

Belgium have been shite for at least a decade. Austria hasn't had a decent team for longer than that. 
Talented teams come around every so often for smaller countries. It's the same in the GAA for counties like Longford and Armagh.   
Croatia will be back in the doldrums at some stage. England won't win anything .

There's no rugby, gaelic-football or hurling to 'compete' for the talent in Croatia.