Tyrone v Kildare Part II - The Revenge Div 2 NFL Final Sunday 29th April 2012

[Jimmy14]

Is Davy Harte injured or retired?

[Paddy1804]

Think there's a lot of over-reaction on here re: the defeat yesterday...  I would agree that the loss mightn't do anyone (supporters included) any harm in advance of a difficult Championship opener. 

Sean Cavanagh is definitely not a WHF and should be played at FF - whether he likes it or not.  I remember when he won player of the year at FF he was complaining that he preferred Midfield, however his best performances have always been at FF. 

Someone mentioned above that if you stop Peter Harte you stop Tyrone - I'm not sure if I agree but what I would say is that it is a measure of the player that something like that is even being thought at such a young age. 

Some posters also being very harsh on Aidan Cassidy - I remeber seeing him make a few appearances before he had that leg-break playing for Augher...  Cassidy is a good player.  Would have no worries about him - although who's winning the breaking ball from the half forward line?  As someone pointed out, Dooher is (as he was always going to be) a massive loss in this regard.

One final thing - are people on here really saying that Tyrone's chances are gone becasue Ronan O'Neill and Kyle Coney are injured?  Two young, relatively inexprienced players who weren't even guaranteed a stating place come championship?

Jesus wept....

[Whishtup]

Enjoyable enough game.  Terrible reffing.  Thought he was equally bad for both teams in the first half and then bad for Tyrone in the second.  Wouldn't be too disappointed.  I thought that Tyrone looked physically sharper and faster to the ball all over the pitch in the first half-just seemed to break down by trying to burst through the middle all the time.    Sean should've been hauled off at half time.  In fairness to Stevie he never got any ball put into him and Mugsy looks sharp enough.  Bar one terrible pass, I thought Colm Cav put himself about well enough.  Disappointing game by McCarron. 
On another day, Tyrone could've been out of sight at half time.
Our game seemed to fall apart when the ref lost the plot while Kildare took their chances well.  Won't do Tyrone a bit of harm to lose this one-they have the basis of a decent championship team on this showing but need to start picking of long distance scores.

   

On another day, a sniper on the roof of the nally stand could take out half the Kildare players.

'Pale' humour?

That's what it would have taken for Tyrone to be out of sight by half-time on 'another day'.

...'tis no wonder Meath are fecked these days...

[nrico2006]

Think there's a lot of over-reaction on here re: the defeat yesterday...  I would agree that the loss mightn't do anyone (supporters included) any harm in advance of a difficult Championship opener. 

Sean Cavanagh is definitely not a WHF and should be played at FF - whether he likes it or not.  I remember when he won player of the year at FF he was complaining that he preferred Midfield, however his best performances have always been at FF. 

Someone mentioned above that if you stop Peter Harte you stop Tyrone - I'm not sure if I agree but what I would say is that it is a measure of the player that something like that is even being thought at such a young age. 

Some posters also being very harsh on Aidan Cassidy - I remeber seeing him make a few appearances before he had that leg-break playing for Augher...  Cassidy is a good player.  Would have no worries about him - although who's winning the breaking ball from the half forward line?  As someone pointed out, Dooher is (as he was always going to be) a massive loss in this regard.

One final thing - are people on here really saying that Tyrone's chances are gone becasue Ronan O'Neill and Kyle Coney are injured?  Two young, relatively inexprienced players who weren't even guaranteed a stating place come championship?

Jesus wept....

Cavanaghs best performances have come from midfield.  He did well at full forward in 2008, but he when on form at midfield he was untouchable.

[ballymac]

IMHO and a lot of fellow Tyrone supporters they (Tyrone) were not thought to be All Ireland contenders, there are a few who like to stir the pot. Tyrone dominated div 2 a fairly ordinary div 2. That does not make you a contender for much. At the moment Tyrone are in the top 10 teams and maybe one of the better options outside of the big teams. That is all, Mayo, Down, Kildare and Donegal are all in as strong if not stronger position to be called all ireland contenders.

But Tyrone have to call the changes and Mickey seems to be doing his best to bring in fresh players, but it is upto these guys to push the older players and make the competition for positions tighter. Come the championship I think Tyrone will have a different look to them, I don't expect Sean to play at whf nor do I expect Harte to play at chb. Sean is only back from injury and come June will be in better shape. Hopefully Cassidy can stay injury free and get a bit of game time behind him. Tyrone can improve but a different game plan is now required.

Will the change in the square ball rule result in quick high ball being played in by every team to the tallest man they can find in the county? 

[Tommo2]

Kildares subs in the last 10-15 mins seemed to make all the difference. Conor Gormley was badly exposed by no. 22.

[emmetryan]

I've put together a tactics piece on this for anyone interested http://action81.com/blog/?p=5760

[Dinny Breen]

I've put together a tactics piece on this for anyone interested http://action81.com/blog/?p=5760

but the questions about their ability to create scores remain.

Kildare have no problem creating chances, at times they look they have trouble with execution but that is partly down to the simple tactic that a wide is better than a turn-over as a wide allows you organise your defence.

[Redhand Santa]

Tyroneman and Fuzz , I agree wholeheartedly! David Coldrick was simply put, not good. Tyrone made it easy for him by continually carrying the ball into the tackle. Sean Cavanagh is seems to have lost a considerable amount of pace, and seems to struggle to blow by players they way he used to , after dropping his shoulder. Bottom line, you wont be winning any All irelands with Colm Cav in the middle of the field, I strongly believe , that if he wasn't Sean's Brother, he wouldnt even be on the panel! Aidan Cassidy is average, as is Cathal McCarron. Mark Donnelly as stated was the standout performer, for the most part ploughing a lone furrow. Curran in goals hardly inspires confidence either. Young McKenna was also very average and for all the hype its games like today that he should be showing in.......should have been gone a lot earlier. Freetaking is at best sketchey! We are probably a coin toss everytime we get a free , whether we will score it or miss! The pace that had been evident throughout the league was not on show today, perhaps we got our pace a little earlier than most teams this year? Only positive....a good kick in the whole before the applemunchers!

Your typical a section of Tyrone supporters. Don't remember much chat from you when they won 12 games in a row and as soon as they lose one everyone is in for serious abuse. I don't even think you bothered going to the game? The lads put a lot of effort in and our the best in the county and don't deserve crap like that.

Colm Cavanagh played in a minor All Ireland winning team, played midfield for the u21s, played for Jordanstown and came on in the 2008 All Ireland final scoring the last point. So this is all down to him being Seans brother? He's had plenty of decent games this year when you didn't comment on him them. Despite being prone to errors he puts in a lot of work around the middle and is more than worth his place on the panel.

Niall McKenna starred on an All Ireland winning minor team a few years ago. But again he's picked cause of his name?

Anyone who thinks Mickey Harte picks players cause of their surname doesn't have a clue. Tyrone won't win every game they play and currently haven't got the best team in Ireland. So there's no point in these over the top reactions every time we lose a match.

[Fuzzman]

Interesting tactical analysis there Emmet which I would strongly agree with

Your line below sums up Tyrone now for a number of years.
The theme for Tyrone's attack for most of the game was one of arduous effort with little reward

Whilst I used to see us (through rose-tinted glasses of course) as a great talented team that also worked our asses off, we now seem to work hard but not get as much return. Part of this is because other teams have tightened up defensively and put more focus on getting extra men into defence.

As so many have said we are too one dimensional with no plan B. Back in 2008 I think Harte was reluctant at first to copy Kerry and put a big man at the edge of the square. We know Mickey is a great manager but he can also be fierce stubborn and set in his ways. To me, yesterday, it would have been the ideal time to put Sean or even Cassidy into a 3 man FF line and so when we got possession around our own 40 or MF we kick it in long, right into the square the odd time. At least this change of pattern would mean the kildare sweepers would have to guess would it come low and short or over the top.

Ballymac I agree with a lot of what you said though I don't think Tyrone are as far back as top 10 just yet. The Armagh lads would love to believe so and keep telling us we're in denial about ourselves like they were after 2005.
I think players like Cassidy, both Cavanaghs are still great footballers and have shown that on other days but I think when we get into this tight swamped defensive type games where we don't adapt then these guys lose the ball a lot more and look bad.
Being able to lift your head up and see both a short pass is on or you know you can lay it in long to a big man in FF gives you so many more options.
As we often here the last few years. we were out Tyroned.
Well I'm tired of hearing that phrase as teams have moved on and passed us out with defensive strategies and we're still trying to play a possession game were all scores are hard earned.

Stevie and Mugsy can come running out, catch, turn and shoot as well as anyone still and ye can see MUgsy knows that and tries it often. He doesn't try to be beating men or to be giving passes to someone 1 yard away from him knowing a stray hand can come in and lose it.
I think we've still got the players to be there in the last 8 or even 4 but we definitely need to look at how we play and adapt to this new square ball rule change. My worry is though that Mickey will not change so readily and be out to prove those critics wrong that it is still a positive game to watch.

[omagh_gael]

I was reading an article in our local paper before the game which included an interview with Emmet Bolton, in it he talked about their trip to Portugal. In total they had 20 training sessions over the 10 days. It was clear yesterday that this had a significant impact on their fitness as we were chasing shadows for the last 10 minutes and young Fogerty made hay and ran our FB line ragged when he came on. He looks like a great prospect (who needs Seanie?)

However, in my opinion the most significant impact of that training camp would have been the benefit to team morale and more importantly tactics. Kildare had our game plan sussed and when our bodies began to wilt we couldn’t break through to take our scores and nobody seemed willing to have a pop from 35 yards and when they did they didn’t come close. I don’t buy this crap about us not being near Sam, and similarly before Sunday, being up there with Dublin/Kerry etc. We are clearly not in the leading pack but we are definitely towards the front of the peloton

We have been playing some of our best football for years so far and had a bad day at the office yesterday. As someone already said it would have done no favours to have gone into the Athletic grounds with the tag of 13 wins out of 13 and being huge favourites. Hopefully this will provide the kick up the hole that we need to develop and real plan B, as when our running game is stopped we look lost. Every team in the country will have cottoned on to this and will be clogging up the ‘D’ when they meet us. On League Sunday Brolly highlighted the wall put up around the 30 and pointed out where the corner men had pulled out to the wings. Surely we should be mixing it up a bit more and using the decoy runs made by SoN etc. more often.

I think a few ideas (some already suggested) would be:

1.   Use Mugsy around the 40. Although he is putting up some big scores he has got great vision and is looking for that killer foot pass all the time. SoN was completely isolated yesterday and, as he is such a confidence player, when he did get the ball he didn’t look on top form. See his simple free kick miss yesterday. We need to be giving him the ammo to cause damage.

2.   Sean Cavanagh needs to move to either FF or MF. He is being completely bypassed at the minute and really looks a pale shadow of the player he was pre 2009. He needs a lot of space to run into or being close to goal where he can cause panic, win ball and bring others into play. He doesn’t really seem to be doing either at the minute.

[cadhlancian]

Mc Kenna needs the curly finger!

That happened it didn't make one ball of blue, because he done better than 2  cavanaghs, 1 Cassidy, 1 Harte, 1 full back line etc.  you and Mickey must be on the same wavelength.  Our big players were caught out badly today, and thats why we lost yet it's easy to pick out the fringe players. Stork

McKenna was equally as bad as any you have mentioned. He was taken off with 5 mins to go, have yet to really see him shine. You talk about the bigger names, maybe he is getting on because of his own name??

Interesting perspective. It was you naming players and calling for curly fingers for just the one one player but you mentioned he was equally as bad as others.  We won 2 balls in the second half in midfield and he won one.  In the firts half he was involved in most scoring moves.An when other vaunted stars were sauntering around giving the ball away repetively for scores, you still singled out Mc Kenna.  I really think you believe  that because of his name he was selected, thats going to be hard to argue with.   

Actually , I dont think that at all, it was yourself who said that others got to stay on because of who they were? Just making a point!

[cadhlancian]

Tyroneman and Fuzz , I agree wholeheartedly! David Coldrick was simply put, not good. Tyrone made it easy for him by continually carrying the ball into the tackle. Sean Cavanagh is seems to have lost a considerable amount of pace, and seems to struggle to blow by players they way he used to , after dropping his shoulder. Bottom line, you wont be winning any All irelands with Colm Cav in the middle of the field, I strongly believe , that if he wasn't Sean's Brother, he wouldnt even be on the panel! Aidan Cassidy is average, as is Cathal McCarron. Mark Donnelly as stated was the standout performer, for the most part ploughing a lone furrow. Curran in goals hardly inspires confidence either. Young McKenna was also very average and for all the hype its games like today that he should be showing in.......should have been gone a lot earlier. Freetaking is at best sketchey! We are probably a coin toss everytime we get a free , whether we will score it or miss! The pace that had been evident throughout the league was not on show today, perhaps we got our pace a little earlier than most teams this year? Only positive....a good kick in the whole before the applemunchers!

Your typical a section of Tyrone supporters. Don't remember much chat from you when they won 12 games in a row and as soon as they lose one everyone is in for serious abuse. I don't even think you bothered going to the game? The lads put a lot of effort in and our the best in the county and don't deserve crap like that.

Colm Cavanagh played in a minor All Ireland winning team, played midfield for the u21s, played for Jordanstown and came on in the 2008 All Ireland final scoring the last point. So this is all down to him being Seans brother? He's had plenty of decent games this year when you didn't comment on him them. Despite being prone to errors he puts in a lot of work around the middle and is more than worth his place on the panel.

Niall McKenna starred on an All Ireland winning minor team a few years ago. But again he's picked cause of his name?

Anyone who thinks Mickey Harte picks players cause of their surname doesn't have a clue. Tyrone won't win every game they play and currently haven't got the best team in Ireland. So there's no point in these over the top reactions every time we lose a match.
[/quoteYes you are correct, I didnt get to the match, watched it on the box ( due to the fact I live 6000 miles from home now ) You miss the point about Colm and McKenna. By the time Colm came on the minor scene, Sean was Irelands youngest rising star, " the new Jack O'Shea?". So everybody had this anticipation about this younger brother that was coming along as well. As for McKenna, umm but did you know he had a slightly famous daddy? One of Tyrones greatest ever players. What I am NOT saying is that they cant play football, what I AM saying is that perhaps they had a slight leg up versus  A.N Other form Clonoe or Aghaloo etc??

[rrhf]

I'd say it's more a case of his name leaving him open to more stick.  As for your comments about Colum living off Sean,  in the past 2 years he has been twice the footballer Sean is.

[barelegs]

The amount of over reaction here is ridiculous. Look things just didn't fall for Tyrone yesterday. Everything just seemed a little out in terms of timing. Better it happened here than against Armagh.

I'd have been impatient over the last couple of years looking changes to the side but now they've been made I'm more than happy to have a bit of patience with the team. There's still 2-3 players to come back into that team that'll strengthen Tyrone before the championship.

The one thing I would say and I've seen 11 of the 13 games Tyrone have played this year is that the team have a much greater fluency without Sean Cavanagh than they have had with him in the team. I know he's one of the best players in the country on his day but I don't think he's had a position he can call his own on the team for a couple of years. I don't think he does enough defensive work for midfield and he's not a natural enough finisher for full forward. Bit harsh I know. Wouldn't mind seeing him at centre half forward. Would offer a very different threat there.