Gay marriage

[J70]

Some people are missing the point. The varying standards of parenting in society is irrelevant - when is a single parent/abusive/alcoholic etc ever going to apply to adopt a child? And in what country would they even be allowed to!?!

What it all boils down to is what provides the best environment for a adopted child to grow up in and IMO that is one where there is a loving mother and father.

What is your opinion based on?

Are there studies out there that show that children brought up by same-sex parents suffer in comparison to those brought up by heterosexual parents?

[Tony Baloney]

Some people are missing the point. The varying standards of parenting in society is irrelevant - when is a single parent/abusive/alcoholic etc ever going to apply to adopt a child? And in what country would they even be allowed to!?!

What it all boils down to is what provides the best environment for a adopted child to grow up in and IMO that is one where there is a loving mother and father.

+1

[EC Unique]

Some people are missing the point. The varying standards of parenting in society is irrelevant - when is a single parent/abusive/alcoholic etc ever going to apply to adopt a child? And in what country would they even be allowed to!?!

What it all boils down to is what provides the best environment for a adopted child to grow up in and IMO that is one where there is a loving mother and father.

Good post.

That would be the belief of thousands of people in Ireland alone. Are they all wrong. (or even ignorant and ill informed ).

[Puckoon]

Some people are missing the point. The varying standards of parenting in society is irrelevant - when is a single parent/abusive/alcoholic etc ever going to apply to adopt a child? And in what country would they even be allowed to!?!

You are also missing the point. There is no one stopping these people mentioned above from having children either. The debate appears to not centre around adoption - rather the suitability for gay people to raise children. Alcoholic and abusive parents are having children daily.

What it all boils down to is what provides the best environment for a adopted child to grow up in and IMO that is one where there is a loving mother and father.

Do you have any evidence (even anecdotal will do) to support the claim of the best environment? Do you know any gay parents of children, or have any examples of a heterosexual environment beating a homosexual environment in any specific ways? Or is this more unsubstantiated emotive opinon?

When opinions get thrown out in the course of debate - they are open to being challenged - and until there are any real reasons put forward then it's just nonsense.

Example: I think only black people should be allowed to adopt black children. I think people from Armagh should not be allowed to procreate. Etc etc etc. Nonsense. all of it. Just putting IMO at the end of any of these sentences should not protect me from criticism and being told my opinions are ignorant and bigotted.

[Maguire01]

Some people are missing the point. The varying standards of parenting in society is irrelevant - when is a single parent/abusive/alcoholic etc ever going to apply to adopt a child? And in what country would they even be allowed to!?!

What it all boils down to is what provides the best environment for a adopted child to grow up in and IMO that is one where there is a loving mother and father.

Good post.

That would be the belief of thousands of people in Ireland alone. Are they all wrong. (or even ignorant and ill informed ).

Yes. Just because thousands of people believe something doesn't mean it's right. Thousands of people in the UK vote for the BNP - i'd regard them as wrong, ignorant and ill informed.

[J70]

Some people are missing the point. The varying standards of parenting in society is irrelevant - when is a single parent/abusive/alcoholic etc ever going to apply to adopt a child? And in what country would they even be allowed to!?!

What it all boils down to is what provides the best environment for a adopted child to grow up in and IMO that is one where there is a loving mother and father.

Good post.

That would be the belief of thousands of people in Ireland alone. Are they all wrong. (or even ignorant and ill informed ).

If they cannot porivde evidence that the children of same-sex couples thrive less than those of straight couples, yet propose to deny same-sex couples the right to adopt, then yes, absolutely they may well ignorant and ill informed.They certainly not coming to informed conclusions, that's for sure.

[heganboy]

You miss my point Maguire.
Two men being married and adopting kids surely could be considered "off the wall" but it's accommodated......
Two men and one woman all being married to each other and sexually active with each other and living in an open relationship at the same time surely could be considered "off the wall" but it is accommodated......

believing that a piece of unleavened bread is actually the body of a carpenter who lived 2000 years ago in the middle east but was really cunningly the deity who created the universe and made man in his image who decided that the one species he made is his own image should be allowed into eternal life of complete awesomeness if and only if when they die they have been sufficiently abiding of a set of very poorly translated  rules and contradictory stories written down by a bunch of other men from the middle east that lived between 4000 and 1500 years ago. Otherwise they go to a state of absolute and unending hell (unless of course said omnipotent one decides on a whim to come back and end the world in which case the heaven criteria gets a lot tougher and only 7000 of the rule keepers get through the gates), with a few caveats to protect the rich who donate or who play the good old get out of jail free death bed confession card. 

that on the other hand seems absolutely normal compared to the thought of two people of the same sex wanting to live together and provide a nurturing environment to bring up children, off the wall whack jobs...

[Puckoon]

We don't live in a perfect world, but there is no reason to try and not better it for everyone.

What a great philosophy, very well put. Unfortunately there are those among us who would prefer to practice exclusion, discrimination. preach bigotry and second class citizenship and then eat the altar rails on a Sunday.

[Tony Baloney]

Some people are missing the point. The varying standards of parenting in society is irrelevant - when is a single parent/abusive/alcoholic etc ever going to apply to adopt a child? And in what country would they even be allowed to!?!

You are also missing the point. There is no one stopping these people mentioned above from having children either. The debate appears to not centre around adoption - rather the suitability for gay people to raise children. Alcoholic and abusive parents are having children daily.

What it all boils down to is what provides the best environment for a adopted child to grow up in and IMO that is one where there is a loving mother and father.

Do you have any evidence (even anecdotal will do) to support the claim of the best environment? Do you know any gay parents of children, or have any examples of a heterosexual environment beating a homosexual environment in any specific ways? Or is this more unsubstantiated emotive opinon?

When opinions get thrown out in the course of debate - they are open to being challenged - and until there are any real reasons put forward then it's just nonsense.

Example: I think only black people should be allowed to adopt black children. I think people from Armagh should not be allowed to procreate. Etc etc etc. Nonsense. all of it. Just putting IMO at the end of any of these sentences should not protect me from criticism and being told my opinions are ignorant and bigotted.

You've been living in the US for too long. Personally if I was a chilfd growing up in Ireland I'd prefer for my pram to be pushed by a man wearing jeans and a t-shirt than one wearing a tanktop and leather chaps 

[EC Unique]

I have no idea on the figures in Ireland on the amount of children needing an adopted home but let's say it is less than the amount of couples looking for 2 or 3 children. If all these couples pass all the criteria to adopt and are offering a loving home then why should gay couples be considered when (again a guess) the majority of the population would not approve of gay couple adoption.

If there were not enough loving houses for the children then gay couple adoption could be looked at but I doubt if the figures call for it. Would not be an ideal solution but this is not an ideal world.

[J70]

I have no idea on the figures in Ireland on the amount of children needing an adopted home but let's say it is less than the amount of couples looking for 2 or 3 children. If all these couples pass all the criteria to adopt and are offering a loving home then why should gay couples be considered when (again a guess) the majority of the population would not approve of gay couple adoption.

If there were not enough loving houses for the children then gay couple adoption could be looked at but I doubt if the figures call for it. Would not be an ideal solution but this is not an ideal world.

Let's say the majority of the population disapproved of black couples adopting white Irish children. Would it be ok in that case to prohibit black couples from adopting?

[Maguire01]

Personally I feel that a child growing up in a "nuclear family" or an extension of this is usually the best for them as it helps them have both male and female influences through childhood and adolescence.

However this can't always happen. A husband/wife or even just man/woman living together raising their child may be for example within an abusive relationship that is often not healthy for children - intervention either by friends, family or an authority can often not be enough to solve this until on rare occasions its too late and turns tragic. The parents themselves could also be abusive to their children and very often they don't speak up with no one else noticing. Then you can give plenty of examples of single parent families raised nominally only by their mother or father and not both for whatever reasons. Again they can be missing an influence in their everyday life.

Because of these scenarios that has existed since time X, I can think of no real reason why homosexual couples should not be considered suitable for adopting a child especially if it can give the child safety, security and love. A someone else pointed out earlier, someones sexual orientation doesn't preclude them from being a good parent or be a positive social influence for them. Influences that would be potentially missing through the lack of one sex in this case can be compensated in various other ways e.g. help from family members, teachers, sports coaches etc. We don't live in a perfect world, but there is no reason to try and not better it for everyone. As for the element of religious influence, I would see it that if homosexuals were not to be deemed suitable as someone to raise children because their behaviour or design restricts them from having children naturally, then the same principle should apply to heterosexual couples who are unable to conceive naturally; that just happens to be God's will.

A lot of good points there. Basically a stable loving home, in whatever form that takes, will be in the best interests of the child.

[lawnseed]

gays should be allowed to get married... it will stop them having sex

[Maguire01]

I have no idea on the figures in Ireland on the amount of children needing an adopted home but let's say it is less than the amount of couples looking for 2 or 3 children. If all these couples pass all the criteria to adopt and are offering a loving home then why should gay couples be considered when (again a guess) the majority of the population would not approve of gay couple adoption.

If there were not enough loving houses for the children then gay couple adoption could be looked at but I doubt if the figures call for it. Would not be an ideal solution but this is not an ideal world.

How appropriate that it was you who mentioned the words 'ignorant' and 'ill informed'.

[EC Unique]

I have no idea on the figures in Ireland on the amount of children needing an adopted home but let's say it is less than the amount of couples looking for 2 or 3 children. If all these couples pass all the criteria to adopt and are offering a loving home then why should gay couples be considered when (again a guess) the majority of the population would not approve of gay couple adoption.

If there were not enough loving houses for the children then gay couple adoption could be looked at but I doubt if the figures call for it. Would not be an ideal solution but this is not an ideal world.

How appropriate that it was you who mentioned the words 'ignorant' and 'ill informed'.

It was puk that used those terms.

Do you think my assumptions are wrong?