Antrim Football Thread

[EOC1923]

Hard to disagree with Sambo on either Gaelfast / or how Antrim operate by putting Senior Management teams in at high cost without putting any emphasis on improving their underage teams first.

[Milltown Row2]

So the question is, and they have had plenty of cheap managers in both football and hurling over the years, how do you improve the underage set ups if the ability/commitment/attitude/passion isn't there and hasn't been there for many years?

GAA for a lot of kids does not mean the same as it did for us (the oldies) anymore. Certainly in Antrim there seems to be a bigger thing for club rather than county, the commitment to your childhood friends club community is stronger and stepping aside from county is easily replaced by representing the club/parish

How do you flip that one for starters and how do you develop under 6's through to senior intercounty? It's a huge ask for any county board

It may take 30 years if they start at the beginning, but the mindset is not there yet

[Níl a fhios agam]

MR2 think thats a poor excuse your making about how and why antrim cant improve. Lazy to say its a passion issue. If you want to see passion, how about the county have the underage set ups and management something to be passionate about.

i know my son has been in the county development squads in recent years, and has had a couple of good managers that got next to ZERO backing in terms of finances, which would have enhanced the kids experience at county level. The trips they had away, the simple things the received like drinks before a game were all generated by the manager himself or they fundraised for. Was totally f**king wrong. The begging to get pitches as there was no provision at times to get them slotted in was embarrassing.

I can only admire the men who go up and take them underage teams, because iv stood and watched them, an i can tell you when we were getting hammered by all the ulster counties, it didnt dwindle the managers passion for the next night to make the lads better.

Just a pity the county board, Gaelfast and the phonies overseeing the underage dont have the same passion. They are all getting paid to tick a box and say they are delivering x.y and z but when u look at even whos taking the underage teams who GMN has appointed, u think to yourself, is it any wonder all our good coaches are sticking with their clubs.

Really hope our senior men, turn it around at the weekend and give us a bit of hope. Things are bleak at them moment

[Milltown Row2]

MR2 think thats a poor excuse your making about how and why antrim cant improve. Lazy to say its a passion issue. If you want to see passion, how about the county have the underage set ups and management something to be passionate about.

i know my son has been in the county development squads in recent years, and has had a couple of good managers that got next to ZERO backing in terms of finances, which would have enhanced the kids experience at county level. The trips they had away, the simple things the received like drinks before a game were all generated by the manager himself or they fundraised for. Was totally f**king wrong. The begging to get pitches as there was no provision at times to get them slotted in was embarrassing.

I can only admire the men who go up and take them underage teams, because iv stood and watched them, an i can tell you when we were getting hammered by all the ulster counties, it didnt dwindle the managers passion for the next night to make the lads better.

Just a pity the county board, Gaelfast and the phonies overseeing the underage dont have the same passion. They are all getting paid to tick a box and say they are delivering x.y and z but when u look at even whos taking the underage teams who GMN has appointed, u think to yourself, is it any wonder all our good coaches are sticking with their clubs.

Really hope our senior men, turn it around at the weekend and give us a bit of hope. Things are bleak at them moment

I've been around plenty of set ups over the years, not just in Antrim but have witnessed plenty in other counties, the depth and quality at under 14 level is huge in comparison and then the difference in skill level once they hit 16 is different again..

Its not lazy to say the passion is different, it is, they have been brought up with a history of their senior winning things or competing at the top table so their drive is to join that set up, that's why they have in the likes of Tyrone multiple levels of development squads.

Money helps but it won't fix the problem. Just my view on it

[Caesar]

The " players prioritise club over county" or the notion that the best players in Antrim aren't committing is nonsense. Who are these Grade A players who aren't there? (aside from D McAleese and C Small who have their own reasons).

At least there shouldn't be any complaints from Toome about being under-represented on the county set up. The playing squad and background team are full of Cargin men this year so that's another nonsense excuse put to bed.

And it really shouldn't be difficult for any county board to raise the necessary funds to throw the kitchen sink at primary schools, then develop that into secondary schools. That should be bread and butter stuff but doesn't seem to happen for whatever reason.

[Níl a fhios agam]

Reinvent the wheel

Focus all the efforts underage on developing and supporting clubs (particularly around coach education and participation of players as well as direct outreach to schools, and regular skills based fixtures)

Remove development squads completely and start county teams at only u16/17

Have a senior development team made up of u21 players and those aged maybe 21-24 who are on the fringe of senior.

For senior club, focus on the quality of games rather than quantity by reducing the leagues to 25% of clubs split across Senior/interm/Junior A & Junior B)
We keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.

HAVE TO ADMIT, I LIVE THAT IDEA THERE. Build the house from foundations up

- Investment in our coaches at grassroots level, give them the tools to pass their knowledge onto the players
- Like derry and tyrone have coaches in Primary schools
- Connect the county with the clubs
- Proper investment in development squads, give them the experience that they are getting better training, better experiences and coaching than what they would at their clubs.
- Create a standard

[bannside]

A lot of merit in these views, definitely worthy of a fuller conversation. BUT...we need a proper arena to discuss them in.

Been saying for years we badly need a football development committee made up of people who make all relevant decisions, including managers and coaches at all levels including senior, policies (like some outlined here) club coaching (coach the coaches) schools (what can we fo to get more from this sector), budgets, even separate fundraising if necessary.

Not yes men or career officials, but a vibrant mix of ambitious, passionate young people (professionals!) who have a track record of getting things done.

You can add this suggestion to the list above, but until we start to agitate properly for reform, we will still be having this conversation in a decade.

The biggest obstacle of course will come from within. People we elect time after time, who have absolutely zero interest in furthering the cause of ever seeing us in a Div 2 or 1 at senior level.

We are fast becoming an even bigger laughing stock and for anyone who cares, its a very hurtful mix of anger, disappointment and embarassment.

[bannside]

ATM we dont even have a County Coaching & Games Development Officer.

Start from there.

I travelled to a few occasional matches with Paddy Kelly and got a fairly full overview of what he was trying to deliver.

No NIL, he wasnt getting paid. Nor was he going around ticking boxes. For 5 years he stuck at the post and delivered much more than anyone gave him credit for. At the end he was truly worn out, a long hard thankless task that only someone with a genuine passion for his county could complete.

If anyone thinks they can step up and make a positive difference that would be great. But...I still say they need a vibrant and proactive football sub committee behind them - with the full support of coiste bainisti - to make any relevant headway.

[bannside]

Agree, but change will take time...if ever.

For now you need to work within current structures.

Even setting up a "football sub committee" is outside of existing structures. But thats whats badly needed.

What youre suggesting is a think tank, a group of people who come up with ideas. That wont work either unfortunately.

We need a county chairman, a leader who is motivated at the highest level, to set up internal structures (call them what you like) that will result in us having competitive county teams in 10 years. On top of that, an equally motivated executive committee who all buy in/share the same view.

Not a hurling person or a football person, but someone who is committed to driving both, in tandem, and not in competition.

Change can only come from within. It will take a very special kind of individual we need to drive this.

[Spike]

BS agreed that individual is needed, and also agree that without a strong subcommittee behind him/her they will eventually get burned out.

I see coaches coming to the primary schools and i am sure it does raise standards a bit but i can also see it turns out to really be little more than a PE session given the coach has an hour per week to get around a school full of kids.

Half time games gives some link with the schools to antrim.  cumann na mbunscoil certainly doing good work.  but as we have said before the gulf between us and other counties seems to appear in the early years of secondary school.    the antrim schools cup i believe is a good idea though too soon to see its effect.  will the Belfast schools amalgamation entering the mccrory cup have an effect? - hopefully but again too soon to tell. 

going slow or standing still will mean we will never catch up with the big boys in ulster - agree time for radical change and rethink.  will the Antrim Development Plan launched last year make changes or was it just fancy wording that no one could be bothered finishing as it sounded very familiar?

IMO the Divisional Boards have a chance to step in here.

   

[Spike]

a very quick visit around the Divisional Board websites tells me the last post by SW Antrim was 2020, the last by South Antrim was 2020 and North Antrim was July last year.

Covid appears to have demolished them. Some rumblings are occurring with competitions like the O'Cahan cup again taking place but it is nowhere near enough. 

Dont know if moving underage leagues to All County has dampened their power or spirits but they need rejuvenated quickly as i feel they could be extremely important in all of this if the clubs back them.

[Milltown Row2]

We have been running the May day competition at the club for many years, p6's great competition and clubs from all over Ulster attend it as well. The standard on show is more or less the same across the clubs from various counties, Belfast and SW that attend.. Its what happens when they reach secondary school age, and particularly at the age of 14 and above that changes..

We start with the same fundamentals but lose our way after that.. bridging that gap has to be (in my view) the crux of the matter   

[FirstToTheBall]

We have been running the May day competition at the club for many years, p6's great competition and clubs from all over Ulster attend it as well. The standard on show is more or less the same across the clubs from various counties, Belfast and SW that attend.. Its what happens when they reach secondary school age, and particularly at the age of 14 and above that changes..

We start with the same fundamentals but lose our way after that.. bridging that gap has to be (in my view) the crux of the matter   

What would you do differently or what do you think needs to change?

Ya hear people saying about kids in belfast having too many other sports but surely thats in all towns and cities now, or how Antrim is at a disadvantage having mixed areas with the other side not partaking but so does derry, tyrone, armagh and they are all going well compared to us languishing in division 4.

[bannside]

It definitely shouldnt be as hard as we make it.

We need about 1 very class act in every year group to have a great team, and 2 additionally excellent players in each year group to make up a quality squad of 36 players aged between 20 and 32.

3 players per year across the entire county, to nurture, develop, proper S&C.

Every single club that thinks anything of itself should be setting that target for themselves!

[Round or stuffed]

can talk about structures all you want, we are 1 month from club competitions in the county starting, no fixtures, some clubs don't even know what division they are entering, same old story, and the talk is of competitive county team in 10 years. in tyrone they have nearly every league date in the calendar, and it doesn't begin for 3 months