Mickey Harte getting first choice for McKenna Cup team

[BennyHarp]

Would I be speaking out of turn when I say that the majority of people don't care about the sigerson fullstop?
I went to university in belfast and lived with several lads that represented their respective counties at underage, (one had a runout with county seniors,) and they never considered even attending matches out at the dub never mind training for the university teams. It's a side of university life that only a few feel attached to, as can be seen by supporter attendances.  I presume that most of the people in support felt more affinity with the university than we did at least, maybe you were part of the 'rancher clique'.  Anyway for me county is county and sigerson only interests those who have played in it.

You would be way off the mark here. The lads "who never even considered attending matches" were just not good enough. Every college has a band of players "who don't consider playing" cos they know they are not good enough. The best players play and then make their county teams. The fact that they play Sigerson cup usually brings them on and helps them make county sides.
As for McKenna cup - this was a nothing competition before the college sides added excitement, flair and bite into it! It's now a thriving competition with a competitive edge. Mickey harte should wise up and let his colleges players play for their college. Sligo IT have all of our county lads and it was no problem with their respective managers

Really?? Is this the impact that the Universities have had on the McKenna Cup??

Again, i think this is an example of Sigerson team/players over valuing themselves. Was there not over 10,000 at a Tyrone v Armagh McKenna cup semi a few years ago? Im sure this was before the Universities joined in.

[Don Johnson]

That was at the peak of the Tyrone Armagh rivalry, you can hardly say that was a reular occurrence in the McKenna Cup

[BennyHarp]

That was at the peak of the Tyrone Armagh rivalry, you can hardly say that was a reular occurrence in the McKenna Cup

And it was achieved without the universities. I didn't say it was a regular occurrence, but to say the universities have added "excitement, flair and bite" to the competition is nonsense.

[drici]

Was there not over 10,000 at a Tyrone v Armagh McKenna cup semi a few years ago?

Six years ago this month, in what was a truly remarkable turnout for a pre-season game, a crowd of 19,631 paid into Casement Park to enjoy the latest episode in the Armagh v Tyrone saga which had adorned the first half of the decade.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-decline-and-fall-with-the-demise-of-tyrone-and-armagh-2982295.html



And not a hamburger or chip or loaf or fish inside the ground to feed the 19,631 and others there on a very cold day which was the 29th of January 2006.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

That was at the peak of the Tyrone Armagh rivalry, you can hardly say that was a reular occurrence in the McKenna Cup

And it was achieved without the universities. I didn't say it was a regular occurrence, but to say the universities have added "excitement, flair and bite" to the competition is nonsense.

Correct me if I'm wrong but had the Ulster Council not gone as far as to abandon the McKenna Cup for a year or two prior to re-launching it with Universities included? The student sides add something different and I feel it is wholly unfair for their competitiveness to be attacked in the manner it has been. Compare the pool of players each has access to and its clear that for this competition, Universities should have first selection on players.

As for nobody caring about the Sigerson, one of my favourites moments in the GAA was supporting QUB when they won the Sigerson in 2007 even though I'd already graduated.

[ONeill]

Was there not over 10,000 at a Tyrone v Armagh McKenna cup semi a few years ago?

Six years ago this month, in what was a truly remarkable turnout for a pre-season game, a crowd of 19,631 paid into Casement Park to enjoy the latest episode in the Armagh v Tyrone saga which had adorned the first half of the decade.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/martin-breheny-decline-and-fall-with-the-demise-of-tyrone-and-armagh-2982295.html



And not a hamburger or chip or loaf or fish inside the ground to feed the 19,631 and others there on a very cold day which was the 29th of January 2006.

They were the days.

Tyrone hold off late Armagh rally

Tyrone held off a late Armagh rally to win Sunday's McKenna Cup semi-final 0-13 to 0-11 before over 19,000 spectators at Casement Park.

Four points from Stephen O'Neill and two frees from Sean Cavanagh helped Tyrone lead 0-8 to 0-4 at the interval.

A point from sub Kevin Hughes then helped Tyrone move 0-11 to 0-5 ahead.

Armagh, helped by four Stephen Kernan points and some great Steven McDonnell play, fought back but Tyrone held on to earn a final meeting with Monaghan.

It was a lively encounter which includes several skirmishes and 11 bookings.

Tommy McGuigan's early point was cancelled out by McDonnell's opening score but points from O'Neill and Gerard Cavlan then edged Tyrone into a 0-3 to 0-1 lead by the eighth minute.

Further scores from McDonnell and O'Neill kept the two-point margin by the 13th minute before O'Neill ended a seven-minute lull in scoring by swinging over a great point from play.

Sean Cavanagh then got in the scoring act in the closing stages of the first half by hitting two excellent frees although a further McDonnell point and Kernan's first effort from play meant that Tyrone led 0-8 to 0-4 at the interval.

However, it would have been closer had McDonnell taken a goal chance late in the half with his shot from close range coming back off the woodwork.

Kevin Hughes, back in Tyrone colours after a year in Australia, made an immediate impression after being introduced at half-time by hitting the first point of the second half in the 42nd minute.

Further points from Cavlan and Cavanagh then helped extend Tyrone's lead to 0-11 to 0-5 with Armagh struggling to make an impressing at that stage.

However, McDonnell then started to torment Ryan McMenamin in the Tyrone defence and his two points and a John McEntee points left a kick of the ball between the sides.

O'Neill grabbed a steadying point for Tyrone but Armagh continued to press and two McKernan scores meant that there was only three points between the sides with four minutes left.

McKernan then had a sniff of a goal chance but his shot went just over the bar and with it went Armagh's last chance.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/4660314.stm

I wonder how many would head to Casement if they met in the semis this year? 5000?

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

How many attended in Omagh last July? (Was on holidays myself so couldn't make it)

[BennyHarp]

I've said earlier that I think the Sigerson is a class tournament and I have attended the finals many times, but I don't feel that the universities add enough to the McKenna cup to warrant interrupting a counties preparation for league and championship. Tyrone play a massive game in Croke Park in three weeks, how can anyone say that they should prepare for this without their full squad. The Universities have the Ryan Cup to prepare for the Sigerson and the Counties have the McKenna cup to prepare for the league and championship. If the universities don't like that then they can leave the competition. I for one have never been excited at the thought of watching Tyrone play St Marys!

[whitegoodman]

Agree with u Benny.

The McKenna cup has not become important again because of the introduction of university teams.  It is because it is now played in January and county managers see it as a useful "pre season" tournament.  IMO this is the case with or without universities.

Will Mickey Harte get the chance at any other time of the year to try Peter Harte at CHB in a competitive match without any serious issues if it doesnt go well??  Mickey should have every right to play whatever players he wants during this period.

Ironically Mickey was one of the first to take the McKenna cup seriously again and shouldnt be slated for doing so imo.

[ck]

That was at the peak of the Tyrone Armagh rivalry, you can hardly say that was a reular occurrence in the McKenna Cup

And it was achieved without the universities. I didn't say it was a regular occurrence, but to say the universities have added "excitement, flair and bite" to the competition is nonsense.

No it's not. Many county managers were quoted as saying that the college sides added a competitive edge to the competition which was otherwise just a pre season challenge match competition. To use Tyrone V Armagh freak one off crowd as an example of the competition being fine before the colleges were added is ridiculous! The college sides bring energy and an element of surprise to these competitions and only the small minded county supporter who knows nothing outside his/her own county will argue otherwise.

[whitegoodman]

Apart from the one year when Queens got to the final and the odd win for one of the universities here and there I dont think they bring a competitive edge to the competition.  The counties more often than not put out there most experimental lineup against the college team knowing that they will provide the least challenge.

I went to Down v St Marys last year and there was no atmosphere, no competitiveness, no spark.  A decent club team would have given Down "2nds" a better game.

Now obviously Queens and UUJ are stronger than St Marys but not to the extent that they are a necessity for the competitiveness of the competition, far from it.

[onefaircounty]

How many attended in Omagh last July? (Was on holidays myself so couldn't make it)

For some reason, 13,000 is in my head. But could be wrong.

[onefaircounty]

Apart from the one year when Queens got to the final and the odd win for one of the universities here and there I dont think they bring a competitive edge to the competition.  The counties more often than not put out there most experimental lineup against the college team knowing that they will provide the least challenge.

I went to Down v St Marys last year and there was no atmosphere, no competitiveness, no spark.  A decent club team would have given Down "2nds" a better game.

Now obviously Queens and UUJ are stronger than St Marys but not to the extent that they are a necessity for the competitiveness of the competition, far from it.

That's extremely selective. I have been to numerous McKenna cup games, and league matches for that matter, with no competiveness, no spark and no atmosphere. St Mary's beat Armagh last year, Queen's and uuj usually take a scalp a year, at least.

I don't agree that they have all entered and are serious contenders, although I think Armagh haven't won it since 94, but they have added a lot to the competition. The lack of atmosphere might be down to the fact that they don't really have a fan base, but for sides to enter knowing they are playing county sides, all away from home, and to add a bit of spark is to be applauded.

The fact that they are being hampered further is a bit disappointing.

Also, the ryan Cup is played pre-Christamas, the Sigerson in February - that leaves a whole month free so it's as much, probably more, important a competition for the universities rather than the counties prior to the league.

I can see arguments for and against, but the dismissing of the universities, and indeed the Sigerson on  this site sometimes, is bewildering given the standard of play it brings, and the benefit it brings those competing.

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Apart from the one year when Queens got to the final and the odd win for one of the universities here and there I dont think they bring a competitive edge to the competition.  The counties more often than not put out there most experimental lineup against the college team knowing that they will provide the least challenge.

I went to Down v St Marys last year and there was no atmosphere, no competitiveness, no spark.  A decent club team would have given Down "2nds" a better game.

Now obviously Queens and UUJ are stronger than St Marys but not to the extent that they are a necessity for the competitiveness of the competition, far from it.

But given the course that yourself, Mickey Harte and other advocate, the Univeristies will become even weaker and less competitive because they can't field their best team. And a first round Division 2 match is hardly "massive" either.

Amazing to think that significantly more people attended a McKenna Cup match between Armagh and Tyrone than a do or die Championship encounter. Just goes to show the fickle nature of intercounty GAA support.

[BennyHarp]

Yeah,your right TAM, I'm swayed by your argument now. It's much more important that Mickey Harte ensures that universities are mildly competitive in a nothing competition than his Tyrone team get fully prepared for a meaningless division 2 league game in front of a potential 50,000 crowd in 3 weeks. You'd make a good manager one day.