The Blue Wave

[heffo]

It was a top of the head idea so the kinks would have to be worked out, but yeah, I'd imagine playing membership, and you could probably define it by "home club" as per the rules.

I know the rules would undoubtedly be twisted by some clubs, but it would be a step in the right direction anyway.

All of this sounds like an administrative nightmare for Dublin and it's clubs. The solution proposed would work for Dublin and ultimately it's county team as it will stop/reduce the number of mercenaries playing key positions for the top clubs.

Why, when a solution proposed (which ultimately would have to be approved by central council) works for us, would we look for an alternative solution?

[Lone Shark]

It was a top of the head idea so the kinks would have to be worked out, but yeah, I'd imagine playing membership, and you could probably define it by "home club" as per the rules.

I know the rules would undoubtedly be twisted by some clubs, but it would be a step in the right direction anyway.

Why, when a solution proposed (which ultimately would have to be approved by central council) works for us, would we look for an alternative solution?

Because there's more to the GAA than just looking after your own interests, particularly when it comes to the culture of being able to move club and slot into a new community when you have to live away from home.

[heffo]

It was a top of the head idea so the kinks would have to be worked out, but yeah, I'd imagine playing membership, and you could probably define it by "home club" as per the rules.

I know the rules would undoubtedly be twisted by some clubs, but it would be a step in the right direction anyway.

Why, when a solution proposed (which ultimately would have to be approved by central council) works for us, would we look for an alternative solution?

Because there's more to the GAA than just looking after your own interests, particularly when it comes to the culture of being able to move club and slot into a new community when you have to live away from home.

Who is looking out for Dublin's interests though?

Any county can bring a motion to Congress to change rule 6.2 this making any bye-law change in Dublin redundant.

[AZOffaly]

What about the players' interests? This proposal is effectively saying that if you happen to be a decent enough county player, you'd better be able to afford to drive home to your club for training and club matches, or else you can't work in Dublin and play club football. Of course if you declare for us, you can play for whoever you like.

[heffo]

What about the players' interests? This proposal is effectively saying that if you happen to be a decent enough county player, you'd better be able to afford to drive home to your club for training and club matches, or else you can't work in Dublin and play club football. Of course if you declare for us, you can play for whoever you like.

How many players would you think are affected using the example above?

How many of those would have come in the first place if they hadn't certain carrots dangled in front of them?

Would the interests/needs of the players affected outweigh the interests/needs of the club's who developed them and were then left high and dry?

What about the reduction of the standard of the 'home' counties SFC? E.g five Laois IC footballers were playing in Dublin's SFC last year.

What about the fact that when Pat Gilroy goes to watch a championship match at the latter stages a good number of the players playing aren't available to him and are keeping good players who could develop into IC standard players, out of the team?

[AZOffaly]

What about the players' interests? This proposal is effectively saying that if you happen to be a decent enough county player, you'd better be able to afford to drive home to your club for training and club matches, or else you can't work in Dublin and play club football. Of course if you declare for us, you can play for whoever you like.

How many players would you think are affected using the example above?

How many of those would have come in the first place if they hadn't certain carrots dangled in front of them?

Would the interests/needs of the players affected outweigh the interests/needs of the club's who developed them and were then left high and dry?

What about the reduction of the standard of the 'home' counties SFC? E.g five Laois IC footballers were playing in Dublin's SFC last year.

What about the fact that when Pat Gilroy goes to watch a championship match at the latter stages a good number of the players playing aren't available to him and are keeping good players who could develop into IC standard players, out of the team?

Happened me. I went to Kerry working as a young fella. I had no car. Wanted to play club football, but was on an Offaly panel when I left. On my inter county transfer I said that I wanted to declare for Offaly, but change my club to the club in Kerry.

That meant I was able to see out the Under 21 and Senior Championship with Offaly (a quick process) while playing with the club down there. I got train tickets to Tullamore for County training and matches paid by the County Board. My club wouldn;t have been able for that.

Should I have declared for Kerry, and never got a sniff of a county game (nor actually want to play for them), or should I have just given up club football for the year?

[Lone Shark]

How many players would you think are affected using the example above?

Some - but that's not the point. The point is to do what's right, and not to punish players unfairly for the transgressions of a few rich clubs.

How many of those would have come in the first place if they hadn't certain carrots dangled in front of them?

We'll never know - but yet you're opposing every possible suggestion in terms of removing the carrots, instead coming at it from another angle, saying that it's okay to come up to Dublin, as long as you refuse to play for your home county. If Costello said he wanted to ban transfers into Dublin clubs, he'd be just as wrong, but at least then you'd know it wasn't about recruiting players for Dublin.

Would the interests/needs of the players affected outweigh the interests/needs of the club's who developed them and were then left high and dry?

Of course that's a problem, but how is their home club any better off if the player declares for Dublin as opposed to their home county? If they can't afford to travel home, then they can't afford to travel home. Every rural club in Ireland is well used to losing players - that's just how it goes, and always will.

What about the reduction of the standard of the 'home' counties SFC? E.g five Laois IC footballers were playing in Dublin's SFC last year.

Again, that's a problem, but not one that's addressed by this measure. If a player is transferring for the money, they will do so anyway, they obviously need the money really badly or wouldn't be doing it, or else they've no loyalty - either way their home club and home championship is going to lose out one way or another. All this measure does is ensure that players taking the money from Dublin clubs stop playing for their county and in some cases, become available to Pat Gilroy for selection.

What about the fact that when Pat Gilroy goes to watch a championship match at the latter stages a good number of the players playing aren't available to him and are keeping good players who could develop into IC standard players, out of the team?

I'd say Pat Gilroy is quite happy to know that his players are operating at a high standard. There are over thirty senior teams in Dublin - that's plenty of players to pick from, and I find it hard to believe that if you're close enough to county standard, then you have to be able to get into your club team. Even Parnells last year would have had 8/9 native Dubs in their starting lineup. You can't tell me that there are a dozen players in the club capable of playing intercounty, or even developing that way?






Even if we take this move at face value and say that it is about protecting the Dublin SFC and not about recruiting lads to play for Dublin, it's still completely the wrong way to go about doing this. The players transferring for all the wrong reasons would do so anyway, and only the players transferring for the right reasons would be impacted.

[AZOffaly]

I think that's it in a nutshell

Even if we take this move at face value and say that it is about protecting the Dublin SFC and not about recruiting lads to play for Dublin, it's still completely the wrong way to go about doing this. The players transferring for all the wrong reasons would do so anyway, and only the players transferring for the right reasons would be impacted.

I think Dublin are trying to solve the wrong problem here, or at least solve it in the wrong way. If the real issue is that too many clubs are fielding non-Dubs, then put a cap on it. Simples.

This proposal looks like 'If the Clubs are going to play them, then we want them for Dublin'.

I know what you are saying about the home clubs and the home counties, but as LS says, they are going to be affected anyway. If I can't get home for matches or training, then it matters little who I am playing for. I'm not playing for my home club or in my home championship. To make me declare for Dublin or stop playing club altogether is not a solution, it's just compounding the matter by making it even worse for the player affected.

[INDIANA]

Everyone seems to have missed the point here.

1. Costello's transfer bye-law proposal - the ordinary 'culchie teacher' here won't be affected - if he's living in Dublin, working in Dublin and wants to put down roots then fine let him transfer, but he has to officially 'declare' for Dublin - no problem, he's Senior not IC standard so he transfers, plays away and thats the end of that.

2. Your Conor Mortimers, Colm Parkinson's, Begley's etc who suddenly find themselves living in a city centre penthouse with a 'job' provided by their new club - this is what he's addressing - if they have to declare for Dublin then the likelyhood is they won't transfer. Some previous players who've transferred to Dublin in the past ten years have been getting paid by their county on the side, they won't be paid by Dublin and it's unlikely they'd be selected anyway. Plenty of other players playing in Dublin over the last 15 years have openly made themselves available and weren't selected.

3. Funding - playing numbers at Juvenile level are way up again - their argument is that they should be funded appropriately as they're promoting the association.

(1) Aware of that. But what about the intercounty standard player who can't afford to go home for club and county games, since they mightn't get expenses from the club? What about a good standard player but with no car? They can get lifts from other county players, but for a club they're snookered? I know these are isolated cases, but no more isolated than the case of clubs that suddenly end up with millions in the bank and decide they're going to buy a championship.

(2) I agree that runs contrary to the spirit of the association - but that's always gone hand in hand with the absence of parish rule, and to be honest, who's to say that this wouldn't continue even if players had to declare for Dublin? You argue that players wouldn't transfer if that was the case - some mightn't, but many more still would. Would that make it better, or make it worse?

(3) It's great that underage numbers are up, but that's an issue for clubs. I can't see how an increase in under 12 players at Ballyboden or Raheny costs any more to the Dublin county board? Anyway, my point stands - in 2009 Offaly spent €435,000 on county teams, and €418,000 in 2010, and we have the same amount of county teams as Dublin. I don't have the 2011 number to hand but our overall balances were about the same so I presume it would be under half a million, and that's giving both codes equal preference. Dublin spent €2m on team costs, so if there are juveniles being neglected because Dublin choose to spend four times as much as other counties on their intercounty sides, then I would suggest that's your problem and the last thing that should be done is that there should be even more money thrown at the problem.

An excellent point and well put!! It basically sums up why Dublin should not be deisgnated a province as it will effectively render Dublin a proffessional team.

As has been said, if Dublin are willing to become their own 'provincial board' then let them create 2/3 County teams. Having said that it's taken them 15 years to win the AI with just one team so I can't see the DCB going for this particular notion!

We're not talking about provincial status. I know you're slow on the uptake generally.

[INDIANA]

I think that's it in a nutshell

Even if we take this move at face value and say that it is about protecting the Dublin SFC and not about recruiting lads to play for Dublin, it's still completely the wrong way to go about doing this. The players transferring for all the wrong reasons would do so anyway, and only the players transferring for the right reasons would be impacted.

I think Dublin are trying to solve the wrong problem here, or at least solve it in the wrong way. If the real issue is that too many clubs are fielding non-Dubs, then put a cap on it. Simples.

This proposal looks like 'If the Clubs are going to play them, then we want them for Dublin'.

I know what you are saying about the home clubs and the home counties, but as LS says, they are going to be affected anyway. If I can't get home for matches or training, then it matters little who I am playing for. I'm not playing for my home club or in my home championship. To make me declare for Dublin or stop playing club altogether is not a solution, it's just compounding the matter by making it even worse for the player affected.

Its pointless trying to explain to posters here what goes on in Dublin club football because we cant post the half of it. This is a Dublin based problem and we will be solving it looking at our own interests. Nobody likes Dublin anyway so I'm quite happy for Dublin to look after its own interests instead of trying to solve everybody's else's.

The ordinary country player wont be affected. I think if myself and Heffo put that in neon lights at the op of the thread with Scarlett Johnasson naked- some of the posters here still wouldnt get the point.

How many country players coming to dublin would be good enough for the current Al-Ireland Champions? About 2%. You're talking about 20 players this will affect- 99% of this 20 are getting paid, apartments, cars etc. So some people here want us not to bring in a rule to satisfy a bunch of free-loaders. There sole reason for coming to dublin is for compensation. And people want us to feel sorry for them

My advice would be- have a day off. This is a local Dublin problem. And it will be solved locally. Our senior club game is destroyed by these type of transfers. And we're going to put an end to it.

[AZOffaly]

I understand everything you've said there Indy, so why not just say that no club can play more than 2 non - Dubs? That way there's no point in clubs 'harvesting' from the culchies, and if you are a player looking for a club up there, you're more likely to go to a lesser club. If players want to declare for Dublin to become a 'Dub' then they'll do that under this proposal anyway.

I just can't understand why you would make players like me 20 years ago give up playing with my county to get club games where I work.

[heffo]

I understand everything you've said there Indy, so why not just say that no club can play more than 2 non - Dubs?

That would then prevent the majority of players who are genuine and just want to play the game where they're living from doing so - it would affect the average player far more than the mercenaries who the proposed bye-law is aimed at.

[AZOffaly]

Not at all, because those guys can declare for Dublin, just as you are suggesting. In my proposal, at least I could play with Offaly and find a club that had a free culchie slot.

[INDIANA]

I understand everything you've said there Indy, so why not just say that no club can play more than 2 non - Dubs? That way there's no point in clubs 'harvesting' from the culchies, and if you are a player looking for a club up there, you're more likely to go to a lesser club. If players want to declare for Dublin to become a 'Dub' then they'll do that under this proposal anyway.

I just can't understand why you would make players like me 20 years ago give up playing with my county to get club games where I work.

Because it could  contravene the GAA club transfer rule AZ. The only way we can solve this is through bye-law. Limiting the number of non-dubs on team could be deemed to be in contravention of the GAA rule book. The general opinion on this Costello proposed bye-law is that it wont.

These transfers are a cancer on our club scene up here. people are making a mountain out of a molehill on this. the only players this will effect are those leeching off the system. County players from leitrim, longford etc except in exceptionally rare cases would have no chance of making the dublin team in my view.

Lads like Donie Shine and Michael Murphy who are going to college in dublin wouldn't dream of giving up their inter county status with their respective counties. The only ones who would consider it are the leeches and freeloaders.

[AZOffaly]

I understand everything you've said there Indy, so why not just say that no club can play more than 2 non - Dubs? That way there's no point in clubs 'harvesting' from the culchies, and if you are a player looking for a club up there, you're more likely to go to a lesser club. If players want to declare for Dublin to become a 'Dub' then they'll do that under this proposal anyway.

I just can't understand why you would make players like me 20 years ago give up playing with my county to get club games where I work.

Because it could  contravene the GAA club transfer rule AZ. The only way we can solve this is through bye-law. Limiting the number of non-dubs on team could be deemed to be in contravention of the GAA rule book. The general opinion on this Costello proposed bye-law is that it wont.

These transfers are a cancer on our club scene up here. people are making a mountain out of a molehill on this. the only players this will effect are those leeching off the system. County players from leitrim, longford etc except in exceptionally rare cases would have no chance of making the dublin team in my view.

Lads like Donie Shine and Michael Murphy who are going to college in dublin wouldn't dream of giving up their inter county status with their respective counties. The only ones who would consider it are the leeches and freeloaders.

Can you look at my example and tell me am I a freeloader or a leecher? I think there are potentially a few lads who might be able to make smaller county panels (Wexford, Carlow, Wicklow, Louth, Westmeath etc etc) that wouldn't even be on your radar in terms of the big name, big money guys. These fellas might be genuinely looking to play club ball near where they live and work, but while they are good enough for Offaly, they wouldn't be within an asses roar of the Dublin team. This proposal is essentially barring them from playing county football, unless they somehow try to maintain with their home clubs, which might not be possible for a lot of them, especially younger lads.