Brian McGuigan and Phillip Jordan announce their retirement

[ONeill]

Its the lack of talent coming through in Tyrone thats the problem really. To be fair the players made the decision to retire themselves. Unfortunately the lack of replacements is stark.

Indeed, Tyrone have only won the 2 All-Ireland minor titles in the last 4 years after all. There are some great young players in Tyrone and they just need the chance to prove themselves at senior level. With a number of Tyrone's senior players stepping aside the youngsters are now going to get their chance.

I would be happy enough if McGuigan gave it another go next season. A few posters have suggested he is past it and is no longer worth his place but the facts are that his form in 2011 was probably his best since his injury problems. I said earlier in the thread (when his retirement was first announced) that it was most unfortunate that Tyrone had not started the rebuild earlier and got a few younger lads in before this summer in to benefit from Brian McGuigan's playmaking skills. He might not have the legs but with fresher players around him he could still be a great influence for at least another summer.

I have no doubt that it's a positive for Tyrone football that we are seeing going to see a lot of new faces on the panel but it will help if a few of the old guard stick around  - provided they are still worth their place. I would put McGuigan in that category, along with Gormley and and SON (and Jordan had he wanted to keep going and McGinley had he been able to get over his injuries). A mix of youth and experience is the way to go. We didn't get the mix right at all over the past couple of seasons with too many of the older players retained and not enough of the younger ones given a chance. A better balance is required next year and some of the veterans will be required.

I agree but these lads deserve to be able to call time on their county career without the pressure of staying on or coming back in order to bleed in the next batch. They've been on the go for 14 years now and many have begun a new phase in their lives through marriage and children. There's more to life than playing ball for Tyrone.

[INDIANA]

Its the lack of talent coming through in Tyrone thats the problem really. To be fair the players made the decision to retire themselves. Unfortunately the lack of replacements is stark.

Indeed, Tyrone have only won the 2 All-Ireland minor titles in the last 4 years after all. There are some great young players in Tyrone and they just need the chance to prove themselves at senior level. With a number of Tyrone's senior players stepping aside the youngsters are now going to get their chance.

I would be happy enough if McGuigan gave it another go next season. A few posters have suggested he is past it and is no longer worth his place but the facts are that his form in 2011 was probably his best since his injury problems. I said earlier in the thread (when his retirement was first announced) that it was most unfortunate that Tyrone had not started the rebuild earlier and got a few younger lads in before this summer in to benefit from Brian McGuigan's playmaking skills. He might not have the legs but with fresher players around him he could still be a great influence for at least another summer.

I have no doubt that it's a positive for Tyrone football that we are seeing going to see a lot of new faces on the panel but it will help if a few of the old guard stick around  - provided they are still worth their place. I would put McGuigan in that category, along with Gormley and and SON (and Jordan had he wanted to keep going and McGinley had he been able to get over his injuries). A mix of youth and experience is the way to go. We didn't get the mix right at all over the past couple of seasons with too many of the older players retained and not enough of the younger ones given a chance. A better balance is required next year and some of the veterans will be required.

In my opinion minor football has little or no relevence for senior football bar the top 5% of minor talent. The facts are Tyrone have done nothing at u21 level recently a far more crucial grade.

All a good minor team says is that they'll be good u21's. But tyrone look they have regressed unfortunately.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

[
I agree but these lads deserve to be able to call time on their county career without the pressure of staying on or coming back in order to bleed in the next batch. They've been on the go for 14 years now and many have begun a new phase in their lives through marriage and children. There's more to life than playing ball for Tyrone.

Totally agree ONeill. If you have a case however when a player wants to continue and is still good enough to make the team then I would hope that can be accomodated. A couple of lads returning to training in March shouldn't be a problem.

I see where you are coming from Indiana and progress at under 21 is certainly important. The failure of the 2008 team to really kick on at under 21 is worrying but that minor team will still provide good players for Tyrone. Let's see how the 2010 boys get on at under 21. Either way it's plain wrong to look at the under age success in Tyrone over the past few years and say there is a "lack of talent coming through in Tyrone".

spuds, you're havering a load of p*sh.

[cornafean]

The failure of the 2008 team to really kick on at under 21 is worrying

A strange comment. In 2008, the Tyrone minors narrowly beat Cavan. In 2011 the Tyrone U21s narrowly lost to Cavan. Hard to see much of a trend there.

[Orchardman]

That's right, tyrone won the minor in 08, we won it in 09. Just cause they don't go on to win ulster under 21 doesn't mean their no good. This stupid line 'minor success doesn't mean anything', well i'd much rather be winning them than winning damn all

[INDIANA]

[
I agree but these lads deserve to be able to call time on their county career without the pressure of staying on or coming back in order to bleed in the next batch. They've been on the go for 14 years now and many have begun a new phase in their lives through marriage and children. There's more to life than playing ball for Tyrone.

Totally agree ONeill. If you have a case however when a player wants to continue and is still good enough to make the team then I would hope that can be accomodated. A couple of lads returning to training in March shouldn't be a problem.

I see where you are coming from Indiana and progress at under 21 is certainly important. The failure of the 2008 team to really kick on at under 21 is worrying but that minor team will still provide good players for Tyrone. Let's see how the 2010 boys get on at under 21. Either way it's plain wrong to look at the under age success in Tyrone over the past few years and say there is a "lack of talent coming through in Tyrone".

spuds, you're havering a load of p*sh.

They wont be as good as the previous incumbents. Thats the reality for Tyrone fans.

If they were somewhere close they'd have done damage at u21 level. i'd be quite confident in making that prediction.

really its up to the 2010 minors to prove themselves up to the 21 grade first which I agree they could do yet. i'd literally write the 08  team largely off for senior county football.. Coney was the best player on that team and he still hasnt nailed down a place yet. County careers are getting shorter not longer.

[gerry]

Mickey not expecting anymore to leave according to the IN twitter


Irishnewssport Irish News Sport
In tomorrow's Irish News: Tyrone boss Mickey Harte doesn't expect any more Red Hand retirements.

[Blowitupref]

Been successful at U-16,Minor or U-21 level confrims talent is coming through & IMO it doesn't matter which level you succeed, it's up to the Senior management to take risks as some younger players take longer to develop & TBH Harte is one of the best at getting it right.

[INDIANA]

Been successful at U-16,Minor or U-21 level confrims talent is coming through & IMO it doesn't matter which level you succeed, it's up to the Senior management to take risks as some younger players take longer to develop & TBH Harte is one of the best at getting it right.

Its matters hugely I'm afraid. the strike rate of 21'd making it ahead of minors is far higher. 21 is the key grade. The rest are largely irrelevent IMO.

[Blowitupref]

Been successful at U-16,Minor or U-21 level confrims talent is coming through & IMO it doesn't matter which level you succeed, it's up to the Senior management to take risks as some younger players take longer to develop & TBH Harte is one of the best at getting it right.

Its matters hugely I'm afraid. the strike rate of 21'd making it ahead of minors is far higher. 21 is the key grade. The rest are largely irrelevent IMO.

If U-21 football is such a yardstick then (for example) why haven't Galway done better at senior level? most players have to impress first at U-16,Minor before been considered for U-21 & as already said here that level can be misleading.

[imtommygunn]

It has to be said though it is hard to believe how little change there has been in the Tyrone team given how successful they have been in minor over the last decade.

One team yes you would say ok it was a good team but maybe as individuals they just didn't cut it but to get so few through from so many all ireland minor champions.

Some of the players looked untouchable at minor level - Marc Cunningham, Kyle Coney etc etc but for so few to make it to senior teams is odd.

Year on year Tyrone are up there with the best in Ireland at minor and every year at university they dominate the teams yet so few over the last ten years have made it through. No-one can say the talent isn't there - but what is happening that it's not coming through to senior?

[Main Street]

McGuigan and Jordan are leaving big roles (shoes) for someone coming through to fill.

[INDIANA]

Been successful at U-16,Minor or U-21 level confrims talent is coming through & IMO it doesn't matter which level you succeed, it's up to the Senior management to take risks as some younger players take longer to develop & TBH Harte is one of the best at getting it right.

Its matters hugely I'm afraid. the strike rate of 21'd making it ahead of minors is far higher. 21 is the key grade. The rest are largely irrelevent IMO.

If U-21 football is such a yardstick then (for example) why haven't Galway done better at senior level? most players have to impress first at U-16,Minor before been considered for U-21 & as already said here that level can
be misleading.

In my opinion minor is the most misleading grade of all. All minor says is that you reached the top level of the juvenile game.

At u21 level lads are already playing senior football and the transition is easier. A lot of star minors also have physical attributes that make them better then others at that age. By u21 some lads have got stronger and bigger.

I think tyrone would have to be genuinely concerned if their 2010 minor winning team doesnt do some damage at u21 level.

As regards Galway. Very poorly organised at senior level for the last couple of years. However Mullholland will put that right because there are some seriously good players there. And he trained most of them.

[Orangemac]

In the long run it is better for Tyrone that the stalwarts of 2003 onwards retire and that some of the younger players are given a chance.

They may have an average year or two (heres hoping) but at least it will allow some form of progress to be made. 6 or 7 of the team that started v Dublin were there in 2003 with a few more on the bench.

There is more than enough experience remaining with the likes of Cavanagh,Mulligan, Gormley,the McMahons to allow this transition to take place.

[BennyHarp]

It's fair enough to say that Tyrone's minor teams haven't been progressing through to the senior team, but we have to acknowledge that that was an exceptional team to break into. Ok, they haven't won the all Ireland in a few years but you are replacing multi all iteland winners here. It would take an exceptional 19 year old to be deemed better than Jordan, Dooher, McGuigan et al. So the progress had been a little slower than perhaps it might have been. Maybe now these young lads will have their chance, they have waited a long time - let's hope they are chomping at the bit to prove they are good enough.