9/11: Tenth Anniversary

[Tyrones own]

Otherwise known as Sharia law...

It's actually just known as Sharia. The 'law' on the end is redundant.

Maybe but here in California, any newspaper you or I will lift tomorrow or any news network channel that
either of us will tune in to will label it "Sharia Law" and so that's good enough for me and not at all redundant.
Now if we lived in Iran or the like then.......

[dec]

Otherwise known as Sharia law...

It's actually just known as Sharia. The 'law' on the end is redundant.

Fox News calls it Sharia law. That should be good enough for you.

[Tyrones own]

Otherwise known as Sharia law...

It's actually just known as Sharia. The 'law' on the end is redundant.

Fox News calls it Sharia law. That should be good enough for you.

Actually Dec I've moved over to MSNBC 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvgT6FHRUCo&feature=relmfu

http://dailyhuff.blogspot.com/2011/02/ex-muslim-brotherhood-member-warns.html

[heganboy]

extremists should all be shot...


fundamentalists imposing their laws on others, no place for that, except when its about gay marriage, or the Governor of Texas' prayer meetings, honor killings, or covering up women, 2 sides of the same coin

[thejuice]

yeah but you miss the point. If the USA stopped its myopic support of Israel then the Jihad stops. If the USA stops propping up dictators then the hatred and terrorism stops.

Are you joking or are you serious? You think the fatwa against Salman Rushdie and the hysteria about the Danish cartoons was all about US foreign policy? Give. Me. A. Break. It was about religiously-fuelled hatred of all things western. End of. Children in public schools in Pakistan are taught to hate America before they can even point to the place on a map, this despite the fact that Pakistan is a huge recipient of western aid.  Public schools! That's not event the madrassa indoctrination centers!

But we know this wont (sic) happen because capitalism needs to have an underclass; it can't continue in its present state if it were to trade fairly for its resources.

"Workers of the world unite" eh? It's all a conspiracy to keep the working man down.

I don't think terrorism is justified, no sane person does. But if your (sic) investigating a crime you need to find a motive.

Ah, the old "not justifiable but understandable" defence.

Your first point: I don't doubt that the extremism exists, of course it does. Are we not allowed ask why does it exist though? Just because? If its as simple as they hate the fact that we let our women drive and vote etc and we allow gays to live in peace. Fine I'm open to persuasion. I've read as much as I can on both sides of the argument and if you have some other sources as to the root of extremism. Are the geopolitical aspects a completely non-related issue?

I've read the books on the historic conflicts between Islam and Europe, I've watched documentaries like Iranium and it really disgusts me what I've seen in those. But it seems that the geopolitical aspects, which are acknowledged by western governments as indeed a factor, seem to be left out of the more public discussion .

Your second point: I wouldn't agree its a conspiracy. And the Leninist terminology was tongue in cheek. Socialism isn't the answer. Its just how Capitalism works. Success is rewarded and Capitalism needs to grow and it outgrew national boundaries back in the approx 70's and now its works on an almost hemispherical scale. We can't afford the same lifestyle for everyone, not everyone can eat at the top table. If it wasn't for cheap labor in Asia and notably communist China, where would we be?

Your third point: Goes back to the first point. if its as simple as they hate us because of religious ideology and not the inequalities of geopolitics, then fine, if they want a fight over that, I'm totally against them. But I have yet to be convinced that is the root of the problem. Religion gets brought into it by the extremists because it is a powerful motivator and unifies people. It also absolves them in their own minds of any humanity, morality and conscience when they carry out barbarity like we saw 10 years ago. 

But anyway, this ground has been covered before and we wont change the world on a web forum.

But if you want to take the time to do a bit of reading and study that I have done then you might like to read watch the following.

http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Chessboard-American-Geostrategic-Imperatives/dp/0465027261

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baeFRcciN1w&list=PL807D61245B994940&index=2

http://vimeo.com/20197444

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNgCyDsvi84

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=DZUiGQAACAAJ&dq=amartya+sen+identity+and+violence&hl=en&ei=qRBrTtOhDsmh8QPG8PAb&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA

http://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Logo-Naomi-Klein/dp/000734077X

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Decline-Fall-Europes-Motion-Suicide/dp/1594032068/ref=cm_lmf_tit_17

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liberal-Fascism-History-Mussolini-Politics/dp/0141039507/ref=cm_lmf_tit_18

http://www.johnpilger.com/videos/palestine-is-still-the-issue

If you'd like to reciprocate some that you have done on the issue I would like to read that too.


But anyway, enjoy your weekend everybody.

[thejuice]

Some of you seem to have missed the part where I openly said that the USA is not perfect. I put Timothy McVeigh, the Tea Party extremist of his day, on the same moral scale as the suicide murderers who hit the twin towers and the Pentagon. But we can't allow that to blind ourselves to the sinister ideology of violent jihadism. I mean, if 9/11 hasn't woken us up to it then nothing will and we'll continue to have self-loathing people in our midst who try to justify these acts of terrorism.

Is it wrong that the USA gives so much one-sided support to Israel despite its cruel treatment of Palestinians? Of course it is. Is it wrong that Christian fundamentalists in America want to teach nonsense to children and ban gay marriage? Of course it is.

But none of that is enough to justify suicide attacks on civilians in the name of Allah.  None of it can justify attacking an embassy just because a newspaper exercised free speech and printed cartoons. None of it can justify setting bombs off on an urban transport system at commute time.

None of it is justified! You hear me? None of it is justified!

yeah but you miss the point. If the USA stopped its myopic support of Israel then the Jihad stops. If the USA stops propping up dictators then the hatred and terrorism stops.

But we know this wont happen because capitalism needs to have an underclass; it can't continue in its present state if it were to trade fairly for its resources.

I don't think terrorism is justified, no sane person does. But if your investigating a crime you need to find a motive.

Are you for real???
Do people like you who actually believe that actually exist?
Jihad is committed to wiping out western civilisation and replacing it with fundemental backward oppressive muslim control.

OK, what I wrote was deliberately over-simplifying. It doesn't stop, it does lose its most effective recruiting tools. Much like when the British changed tack in Ireland rather than fighting toe to toe began looking at the grievances of the people and negotiating.

But yes that snake is out of the basket and will have to be carefully managed now to put it back. And as Eamonnca1 said, the vigilance must not stop. And that is true. The treat of brutal violence still exists. The battle for hearts and minds still needs to be won and we need to be certain that aspects of capitalism and globalsm isn't working against it.

[muppet]

Well this is it, is anyone really surprised that a building would collapse after being almost cut in half by a commercial airliner slamming into it laden with aviation fuel? Really? Stand on a coke can and poke the side of it and see what happens.

They hijackers chose their flights very carefully. Security on international flights, which had larger aircraft and fuel loads for the longer distances, was much more strict than on internal flights. This is probably why they avoided going for say a 747 or Airbus 340 to London or Paris.

However the USA being so large internal flights included relatively large aircraft, such as the 767s hijacked, with relatively large fuel loads to get from Boston to the West Coast. But these had the advantage of very lax security measures.

The Twin Towers were designed to take a hit from an aircraft, but nothing as large as a 767 or with as much fuel.

[Tyrones own]

extremists should all be shot...


fundamentalists imposing their laws on others, no place for that, except when its about gay marriage, or the Governor of Texas' prayer meetings, honor killings, or covering up women, 2 sides of the same coin

Prayer meetings like this one HB... the NY times didn't print this one so you probably missed it.
Of course it's only the Crazy Christian right that engage in such threatening behavior  *shakes head*
How f**king sick are you to compare a prayer meeting to an honor killing 
Blinkered Liberalism is indeed a mental disorder...of that there is no doubt!

[Hardy]

An intelligent society does, however, know how to punctuate.

[Tyrones own]

As well as side step the actual point, thinking no one will notice 

[heganboy]

How f**king sick are you to compare a prayer meeting to an honor killing 
Blinkered Liberalism is indeed a mental disorder...of that there is no doubt!

yes TO, that was exactly what I was saying in the post, that prayer meetings and honor killings are the same thing. How insightful of you to pick up on that. Can't slip those sneaky ones by you.

I remember the huge outcry over Obama's use of his position to have the prayer meeting above (to which he didn't bring 30,000 in a 70,000 other Christian to a football stadium and claim it was his duty as a Christian to save a nation in crisis)  from representatives of the world's religion, despite his protests that he was doing it as a private citizen and not as the President of the United States.

To be clear- as you missed it, I didn't compare any prayer meeting to anything. I said (with your emphasis)

fundamentalists imposing their laws on others, no place for that, except when its about gay marriage, or the Governor of Texas' prayer meetings, honor killings, or covering up women, 2 sides of the same coin

Forcing your religious beliefs on those who don't agree with them is unacceptable. Have a look at the meaning of the flag you so proudly wave in your avatar. It doesn't matter how you do it, or how right you think you are, President, Governor, Priest, or Rabbi.

[13aside]

Respects today to those who lost loved ones and the scenes even from a distance were disturbing-a prayer and rest in peace-god bless

[tyrone girl]

Watched a show last night on children who lost their parents in 9/11 was terrible viewing. Felt quite emotional watching it. Played on my mind all night.

[Forever Green]

God Bless the millions who have suffered because of this disgusting act. An act that the US went on and slaughtered many more civilians in the middle east

RIP and God Bless

[comethekingdom]

Watching a memorial service on BBC there where Charles & Camilla turned up for it. There is white pvc garden chairs for everyone to sit on but the only 2 chairs that had cushions (not matching  ) on them were for guess who .......