Keith Duggan gets stuck into the Sunday Game panel

[Hardy]

Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.

In training I implement a rule in every practice game that you have 1 solo, maximum 2 handpasses before you have to kick pass.  It has improved the teams overall level of play no end and has made them more effective.  This is basic stuff but what I have found more and more as I manage is that a lot of young players need to get a better basic understanding of the game.

the skills need to be practiced. Continually.
As I say to kids/adults when coaching - look at the darts/snooker/golf etc players.
They are brilliant , but all put in 8 hours a day practice to ensure their skill levels dont drop.
Why do players think they can neglect any skill and retain a high competence level at it?

Spot on. I've always maintained this but it's very rare to see it mentioned in "GAA circumstances".

[muppet]

Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.

In training I implement a rule in every practice game that you have 1 solo, maximum 2 handpasses before you have to kick pass.  It has improved the teams overall level of play no end and has made them more effective.  This is basic stuff but what I have found more and more as I manage is that a lot of young players need to get a better basic understanding of the game.

the skills need to be practiced. Continually.
As I say to kids/adults when coaching - look at the darts/snooker/golf etc players.
They are brilliant , but all put in 8 hours a day practice to ensure their skill levels dont drop.
Why do players think they can neglect any skill and retain a high competence level at it?

Spot on. I've always maintained this but it's very rare to see it mentioned in "GAA circumstances".

I think that is because of an obsession with systems rather than skills.

[brokencrossbar1]

Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.

In training I implement a rule in every practice game that you have 1 solo, maximum 2 handpasses before you have to kick pass.  It has improved the teams overall level of play no end and has made them more effective.  This is basic stuff but what I have found more and more as I manage is that a lot of young players need to get a better basic understanding of the game.

the skills need to be practiced. Continually.
As I say to kids/adults when coaching - look at the darts/snooker/golf etc players.
They are brilliant , but all put in 8 hours a day practice to ensure their skill levels dont drop.
Why do players think they can neglect any skill and retain a high competence level at it?

What, are you saying that instead of players working on conditioning, fitness, defensive tactics, speed work, that they should actually be working on the skills of the game? 



It was commented a number of years ago that the game was becoming closer to Rugby league in terms of player profile and tactics.  The way Donegal defended was the nearest thing so far that I have seen to this tactic, maybe there is a need for a 6 tackle rule before the ball has to be kicked

[lynchbhoy]

What, are you saying that instead of players working on conditioning, fitness, defensive tactics, speed work, that they should actually be working on the skills of the game? 

It was commented a number of years ago that the game was becoming closer to Rugby league in terms of player profile and tactics.  The way Donegal defended was the nearest thing so far that I have seen to this tactic, maybe there is a need for a 6 tackle rule before the ball has to be kicked

not really. IMO players need to have a high level of skills before they can contemplete systems and strategies etc.
There are a lot of players who are athletes and who dont have the skills and have managed to play intercounty, but these guys are easy to spot. they make great half backs and spoilers, but cannot create or certainly rarely kick points or give accurate long range foot passes. Short ball handpassing is all they cn do (I believe Donegal's team are more skilled footballers than this btw).

people like to pull such ideas out of mid air - but the game never and still doesnt reseble rugby league. I have seen on here where some have mooted a certain amount of handpasses allowed. Sure didnt we have that NFL rule where you couldnt handpas twice in a row-  a bit daft, but maybe more ideas need to be looked at. But if we leave managers to come up with a plan to counteract the Donegal tactic, I am sure they will in time. Thats how football keeps evolving !

[samwin08]

? for BrokenCrossbar1--what level of championship do you hope to win soon , now that your team has improved?

[brokencrossbar1]

What, are you saying that instead of players working on conditioning, fitness, defensive tactics, speed work, that they should actually be working on the skills of the game? 

It was commented a number of years ago that the game was becoming closer to Rugby league in terms of player profile and tactics.  The way Donegal defended was the nearest thing so far that I have seen to this tactic, maybe there is a need for a 6 tackle rule before the ball has to be kicked

not really. IMO players need to have a high level of skills before they can contemplete systems and strategies etc.
There are a lot of players who are athletes and who dont have the skills and have managed to play intercounty, but these guys are easy to spot. they make great half backs and spoilers, but cannot create or certainly rarely kick points or give accurate long range foot passes. Short ball handpassing is all they cn do (I believe Donegal's team are more skilled footballers than this btw).

people like to pull such ideas out of mid air - but the game never and still doesnt reseble rugby league. I have seen on here where some have mooted a certain amount of handpasses allowed. Sure didnt we have that NFL rule where you couldnt handpas twice in a row-  a bit daft, but maybe more ideas need to be looked at. But if we leave managers to come up with a plan to counteract the Donegal tactic, I am sure they will in time. Thats how football keeps evolving !

I think we are in agreement Lynchie, i am teasing ye!!  I do fear though that sometimes the tactics that are employed are rugby league-esque.  3 men surrounding the ball carrier with only 1 tackling, 7-8 men falling back behind the ball to create a Maginot type line across the 45, short running play giving the ball off the shoulder to the man on the burst.  It is fairly like rugby league in my view.  With the greater emphasis on upper body conditioning that seems to be encouraged, there is a genuine concern that this will become the way forward dor other teams.  I hope that Kerry win on Sunday week, yest they are negative and cynical but they are by far the most positive "big" team playing the game.  They have been able to marry both sides of the game better than the rest. 

[brokencrossbar1]

? for BrokenCrossbar1--what level of championship do you hope to win soon , now that your team has improved?

The level that they are playing at, Intermediate.

[seafoid]

If Donegal do persist with what they produced against Dublin and if they find that "10 minutes" of conditioning to shut teams out for an entire game an dwin next years All Ireland final  on a scor 06-05.

The next step is very easy to predict.  The rules will be changed.

Not because of fluffy spectators who should be watching the circus, but because the (mostly) men who are in charge of the GAA's future wont allow the game to develop along those lines.

I am old enough to remember Dublin-Kerry in the 70's  Throw passes - throw scores  -  basketball  -   rule change.

I agree 100%. I've posted more or less exactly that recently. That's how it should be, provided the men in charge are making the right changes for the right reasons.

What would these changes and reasons be?

Make the ball smaller
give the players sticks

[ross matt]

Curtailing handpassing, eradicating diving and taking some steps to restore honest physicality to the games would be my priorities. No doubt everybody else would have theirs. Then we'd need consensus. That's how I think it works.

In training I implement a rule in every practice game that you have 1 solo, maximum 2 handpasses before you have to kick pass.  It has improved the teams overall level of play no end and has made them more effective.  This is basic stuff but what I have found more and more as I manage is that a lot of young players need to get a better basic understanding of the game.

the skills need to be practiced. Continually.
As I say to kids/adults when coaching - look at the darts/snooker/golf etc players.
They are brilliant , but all put in 8 hours a day practice to ensure their skill levels dont drop.
Why do players think they can neglect any skill and retain a high competence level at it?

Spot on. I've always maintained this but it's very rare to see it mentioned in "GAA circumstances".

Have always thought the same. Top tennis players etc all practice their craft endlessly also.

[Jinxy]

They're all individual sports.
You succeed or fail on your own.
Plus darts, snooker and golf have no physical component worth mentioning and are predominantly games of skill.

[AZOffaly]

And most are pro sports too. However the core point is a valid one. Skills should be coached, and practised. I do think that is recognised and is happening with kids though. It's when they get to 18-20 that people start to neglect skills I think. Not too many lads down with their brother practising kicking scores/frees etc any more.

[Zulu]

Anyone suggesting that there is a tactic that can beat Donegal's type of defence is living in a fantasy world. There is none, you can win the game but it will be through frees, a lucky goal or because you concede less than 5 points. I dont understand anyone talking about defensive football as played by everyone else, of course you get bodies back but you don't leave 12 or 13 of them back there. Defending with 6 - 9 players is a skill and requires all that is good about football, defending with 14 is just pass the parcel defending. If Donegal's style became prevalent the BC1 may as well forget about coaching as kick passing would become a waste of time, as would high fielding, and marking.

[Hardy]

Have you ever heard of the prime skill of Gaelic Football, Zulu - kicking points from distance? Donegal's system presents plenty of chances of long range points for the opposition. Dublin, for instance, had numerous opportunities in the first 60 minutes against Donegal and put them all wide. That wasn't Donegal's fault, it was Dublin's failing. Donegal's system wouldn't work against a team that could kick points. McGuinness was smart enough to know that if you prevent Dublin scoring goals and also make them shoot from distance, they'll find it very hard to get the scores to win.

[cadence]

Well put, cadence. For many people, if they're not supporting a team, sport is just about the spectacle. They want it to be, well, spectacular. In my opinion, they're wasting their money going to football matches or any regular sport if that's what they're after. They might as well go to the circus. Or better still, go to one of the many junk sports that are springing up to cater for this mentality.

If you're interested in who can jump the highest or do the fanciest tricks when under no pressure, surely you'd get much more enjoyment out of watching an acrobat or one of these lads with the jumping bikes than watching a football match and wishing nobody would tackle the star player so that he can score nice points or hit nice looking passes.

But if you're more interested in watching how people react to pressure or how a team responds to adversity or how a manager tries to counter an unexpected tactic by his opponent, then you'll enjoy a football match that has these elements no matter how low the score. And you'll certainly enjoy a 6-points-apiece draw ten times more than a ten point win for one side, unless it's for your own team.

i with you.... love the aspects of the game you talk about + the bare-faced tenacity and cheek of it to try and beat those who on paper you've no right (as some would see it) to be even lining up against. i just think that's really admirable.

+ i'd like to add that i don't want the skill aspect of football taken away. but i'd hate to see football just to be aesthetically pleasing on the eye. it would become like those meals in fancy restaurants with the finicking little swirls on the plate, lovely to look at, and even nice to consume, but you're left starving, unfulfilled and disappointed by the whole affair. football is so much more than the high field, the pick up, etc, much and all as these are great aspects of the game. i wish we hadda learned our lessons sooner!

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

I'm sorry, but no..even at their most frenzied level of desperation to win an AI in 2003, Tyrone were not as bad as Donegal the last day IMO...And thats from a Kerry man who was disgusted coming out of croker when they beat us.

Thank you Donegal, you've rendered (some) Ciarraí folk nostalgic for the Tyrone team of 2003! Jim Mc Guinness truly has Messianic powers, all hail!