Mayo V Kerry semi final

[Bomber2312]

Ah come off it, gettin a text message is grand, what do u expect, him to travel down to each lads house and hold them in his arms while he breaks the bad news? This i imagine would have been the policy all year so i dont think we should be complaining just because it we lost. I did question why Gibbons was named, dont know if he was really gonna offer anything, however which players did you think aside from him werent gonna get onto the pitch?

We lost because we are not good enough, thats the simple answer.  Picking up the phone to talk to a player is not driving all around the county.  The following  subs were never going to save the day IMO and in managements opinion.....

17) Alan Feeney - Castlebar Mitchels
18) Dermot Geraghty - Shrule-Glencorrib
19) Chris Barrett - Belmullet
21) James Kilcullen - Ballaghaderreen
23) Jason Gibbons
26) Mark Ronaldson - Shrule-Glencorrib

I might as well have included Keegan and Campbell in this as well.  I believe that Ronaldson was out of the picture some months ago but was brought back for what?? He was never going to be played by Horan for some reason.  I also believe that managment had lost faith in Alan Feeney.  The rest are just not good enough IMO, and in managment opinion I believe.

So essentially we had no one on the bench that was gonna play a positive role? out of interest who would have been on your bench?

I believe that Moysider has expressed my view of the subs a lot better than I could have done myself.

Who are the alternatives?

[moysider]

Ah come off it, gettin a text message is grand, what do u expect, him to travel down to each lads house and hold them in his arms while he breaks the bad news? This i imagine would have been the policy all year so i dont think we should be complaining just because it we lost. I did question why Gibbons was named, dont know if he was really gonna offer anything, however which players did you think aside from him werent gonna get onto the pitch?

We lost because we are not good enough, thats the simple answer.  Picking up the phone to talk to a player is not driving all around the county.  The following  subs were never going to save the day IMO and in managements opinion.....

17) Alan Feeney - Castlebar Mitchels
18) Dermot Geraghty - Shrule-Glencorrib
19) Chris Barrett - Belmullet
21) James Kilcullen - Ballaghaderreen
23) Jason Gibbons
26) Mark Ronaldson - Shrule-Glencorrib

I might as well have included Keegan and Campbell in this as well.  I believe that Ronaldson was out of the picture some months ago but was brought back for what?? He was never going to be played by Horan for some reason.  I also believe that managment had lost faith in Alan Feeney.  The rest are just not good enough IMO, and in managment opinion I believe.

So essentially we had no one on the bench that was gonna play a positive role? out of interest who would have been on your bench?

I believe that Moysider has expressed my view of the subs a lot better than I could have done myself.

Who are the alternatives?

Seeing as I m being dragged into this, what do you mean by alternatives?
To be honest I wasn t talking about different personnel in the subs. That was our panel. But we didn t have the time to get serious alternatives. That takes years.  Look at Kerry - they can hold a multible AI winner like Galvin to make a huge imact. And he is some serious player. To hell with the begrudgers he has some radar for breaks and the bloody game in general. One point he took he was in a different time zone, and he was laughing after his last score against us. That doesn t bother me. If we had a natioal team Galvin is automatic choice. Peple might take the piss out of his fashion persona but he one of the best footballers.

We ve had a good team with a good shape about us in a management's first year. They ve done a good job to get a competitive team out there coming from the pits they ve come from.  We re really now where we should have been in 08/09 ( allowing one year for a hangover) We re still playing catch-up with Kerry. Yesterday s bench was weak and underdeveloped because of stuff  that happened before Horan became manager. Jack O Connor winning another AI would be easier than what JH has achieved this year. And I dont say that lightly. Give JH time to develop a serious team and panel. He has to be tough. This team/panel will change next year. I suspect it has changed in his mind already.

[Turlough O Carolan]

Refreshing to see the Mayo supporters looking on the bright side. I wonder have Mayo swapped the House of Pain for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FrXWiIg8QM

[AbbeySider]

Oh the bitter taste of defeat!

As the token Mayo lad in the office, people are coming up to me at work over the past couple of days asking was I at the match and looking for a sort of anecdote or explanation of what happened on Sunday. I feel awkward and can't bear the questions and wish it would stop as I don't really have all the answers and could care less to explain it to people who may not be able to follow.

So instead of going into an in-depth analysis and analysing it properly with people who don't have a clue, I am rhyming off the same clichés and one liners like a broken record just to dodge the questions, get out of the situation and shorten the conversation.

"I am not disappointed really"
"It was a spirited performance"
"We were beaten by a better team"
"At least we didnt fold and roll over like before"
"We have a lot to build on and to look forward to "
"If Kerry hadnt got that goal..."
"If Mayo had got a few of the goal chances..."

Those ones seem to get me out of most situations.
However there is the odd Galway fella with a smarmy remark that is still twisting the knife and they keep asking:

"What happened ye?"
"You were full of confidence, what happened?"
"I thought ye would beat Kerry and ye let yourselves down again?"
"You never explained what happened, are ye just shite now again? "

I expect these questions to linger for a number of days and they will eventually come to the conclusion that Mayo bottled it again against Kerry in Croke Park, but we can take solace in knowing we didn't bottle anything, and can be proud of the performance against Kerry.

And I don't know what it is, but for the first time in a long time I can't really bear reading much of this thread or other sites and blogs since long before the ball was thrown in. There has been quite the explosion of new Mayo posters which has really added to the debate but if we are all honest, a lot of it is just a repeat of what was written on a previous page by someone else and rehashed it a bit. Personally I can't bring myself to contribute to these threads as much anymore as everything is being said and I don't want to sound repetitive as that's just tiring for everyone. The "+1's" are doing me just fine. Maybe George Orwells prediction in 1984 of every concept being expressed by one or very few words is coming true.

Whatever about that, I will break loose here and have a good rant as it could be my last for a long time.

Before the Mayo Vs. Kerry game the script was written and well rehearsed not only on this thread, but on many a internet forum and blog, in every local shop, public house and outside every church in Mayo. Everyone knew their role and the stage was ready. The dog on the street knew how to beat Kerry, or so he thought. 

"Mayo needs a good start." "They have to contain Kerry." "Mayo can't concede early goals."
"Mayo have to win midfield." "If we win midfield we have a chance."
"Kerry backs are past it." "The Kerry defence is too old. "
"Mayo forwards can trouble them." "Mayo forwards are fast buckeens"
"<Insert Mayo full forward player name here> is good for a goal"
"<Insert random Mayo player name here> is due a big game"

And it almost went according to plan; in the first half anyway. But like a movie arch plot in the second half Kerry (the bad guy in my movie) grew with menacing confidence and there was a period where Mayo seemed to ignore the script, and so, the wheels came off the chariot and unfortunately the director didn't get the fairytale happy ending that was originally scripted. The players just stopped believing for a while and seemed to pay the price.

I think I am sickened and disappointed as I genuinely thought we could pull it off so I am left with a bitter taste after Sunday. But I have to say I am still proud of Mayo as they fought to the bitter end.
Horan has restored the pride again and for the first time in a long time I wore a Mayo jersey to the game and I am relieved to say that I wasn't sipping up my jacket and covering it with embarrassment and leaving Croke Park with my tail between my legs. For that I think we are all thankful, and if other counties don't understand that then they don't know what it's like to have been in those situations, and they should hope they never are.

As well as the pride being back, it was heartening to see the fans are back too and hopefully they are here to stay. This year was the first time in a while Mayo people have dared to dream and hope again which was something denied in the recent past. Hopefully we will see bigger numbers at next year's Connacht championship and we might even hear a few more "Maayoo, Maayoo" chants that rang out in Croke park on Sunday.

Regarding the performance, I think it's far better to have honestly given your all and fall short than to have not shown up at all and get steam rolled. The scoreboard might have flattered Kerry a bit but they were the better team and really showed it in the second half.

I find the game itself very hard to analyse as a lot of things happened. I probably need to sit down and have another look at it to absorb it all properly. But I don't think the 9 point margin was a true reflection of how far we were away from Kerry. I felt it was a much closer game than the scoreboard gave us credit for.

Hindsight is a great thing, and you could be forever talking about the "what if's" in a game but I believe we might have gotten closer to Kerry if the work-rate hadn't dipped a bit in the second half, for that period where Kerry were gaining confidence. At that stage of the game I remember seeing Tom Cunniffe bent over with his hands on his knees; not from a belt, the lad was only trying to breath, actually breath; he was working so hard. Another one or two had the hands on the hips gasping for air such was the level of work-rate they had put in to match and contain Kerry.

I think McLoughlin sweeping in the first half kept us in the game as Kerry didn't want to kick it in on top of an extra defender. This coupled with the fact that the ball going into Donaghy wasn't great and at times it was often over cooked or too high for him due is significant pressure out the pitch. As well as that, Cafferkey had the winning of the 50-50 balls so their attacking threat was diminished somewhat in that first half. It probably resulted in Kerry having an extra man around the middle for the breaks but everyone presumed Mayo would have enough at midfield to win primary possession but it didn't really work out that way. McLoughlin's move deep also seemed to allow lots of space of our forwards which we capitalised on in the first half. Unfortunately McLoughlin didn't get forward enough when he had to be effective, and it was nowhere near the performance he had against Cork where he got 1-01.

The turning point for me was Donaghy moving to midfield and McLoughlin moving out from his sweeping role. Suddenly it seemed that the tides had turned and it was the Kerry forwards that had the room and space inside and Gooch made the most of it. I have to say I thought Cunniffe did very well in the first half and held the Gooch to a single point from play. Cafferkey also had a great first half and seemed to frustrate and have the beating of Donaghy. But in the second half, the space Kerry forwards had, the drop in workrate out the pitch, the tiring of Mayos midfield, and the tiring of Cunniffe all contributed to giving Kerry the space to do serious damage.

Then you have the Gooch factor. I am convinced that this guy is the greatest player we have ever seen in the game. He will be to Gaelic football what Pele and Maradona is to soccer. We will be telling our grand kids about the times we saw him play and he was a joy to behold the last day. I don't think there was a defender in the county let alone country that would have held him for the whole game, which is why I might have tried to use two, and maybe kept McLoughlin back there to protect the full back line. But as I said, hindsight is a great thing.

Regarding Mayo's potential goal chances, I am of the belief the most of Mayo's were half goal chances apart from Vaughan's (who was fantastic by the way) who should have hit his low. A lot of Andy Moran's chances were only half chances in my book as when you get the ball, and have to take on a defender and beat a keeper it's a lot to ask. A clear cut goal chance is a one-on-one against the keeper, and for most of Andy's chances he had a defender hanging off him. I hope he gets an All-Star this year as he deserves it and has been exceptional all year and is a true leader out there for Mayo. 

As well as all of that there were a few underperformances that cost us. Seamus O Shea, Richie Feeney and in particular Alan Freeman and McGarity for the time he was on were all disappointing. Cunniffe got a savage roasting in the second half but I dont think we had the man marker or the cover on the bench to save him. Freeman just played poorly and maybe the occasion and opposition got to him. The pace of the game seemed to catch Feeney and O Shea. McGarity was brought in to take the game by scruff of the neck, but like against Cork in the NFL final, and against Tyrone in 2008 he looked fairly poor coming off the bench. Instead of imposing himself he stayed out of the thick of the action and didn't try and get forward to impose himself which was disappointing.

All in all, there is probably a gulf in skill and experience between Mayo and Kerry. As Moy mentioned, this is another golden era for Kerry and they just happen to have exceptional talent at the minute. We might close the gap with more work-rate and experience, and the skill levels can only improve with experience so there is hope for the future.

It was an amazing few weeks and the build up was really enjoyable. The national Media got behind the fairytale. On Saturday you had Newstalk broadcasting from Ballina, all that morning Brady was on 2FM and the national papers seemed to get behind Mayo all week too. It was an incredible journey, for a team who nearly lost to London that scary day in Ruslip, then toppled the reigning champions and dared to defy the critics and beat Kerry in Croke Park. It was amazing stuff that we should be thankful to the players and management for.

To finish up, in 9 months Horan has done more than John O Mahoney has done in 4 years. That's a cold hard fact. He has done an excellent job, and I knew he would after the work he did to bring us to a county title last year. Mayo still have a lot of building to do as I think there is room on the panel for another influx of players that this year may have came too soon for them. There is still lot of talent in the county at club level and this run in the All Ireland series should only lift everyone. If we continue on the upward curve, and improve only half as much next year then it should only be a matter of time for Mayo, and I am a firm believer in that. Maigh Eo Abu!

[boosabum]

At this moment in time it's difficult to see how exactly the team or squad will develop to one which can challenge kerry. Mortimer and Andy, the best players this year are probably the longest serving and cant improve further. The O'sheas are'nt mobile enough for midfield. Freeman has gone back from last year and Doherty has not held any consistancy. Mark R is probably still one of the best club forwards but it looks like he's not in the plans, who can be drafted in to score 5-6 points from play in big games. While Horan has made strides, the first year seems to be the one where the biggest gains are made for any manager and next years will tell alot. We still need another top class defender and scoring forward and elimating  the bad mistakes and then some luck against the better teams

[kevmy]

At this moment in time it's difficult to see how exactly the team or squad will develop to one which can challenge kerry. Mortimer and Andy, the best players this year are probably the longest serving and cant improve further. The O'sheas are'nt mobile enough for midfield. Freeman has gone back from last year and Doherty has not held any consistancy. Mark R is probably still one of the best club forwards but it looks like he's not in the plans, who can be drafted in to score 5-6 points from play in big games. While Horan has made strides, the first year seems to be the one where the biggest gains are made for any manager and next years will tell alot. We still need another top class defender and scoring forward and elimating  the bad mistakes and then some luck against the better teams

The blueprint is there from Cork and Armagh.

Keep developing, keep working on fitness and physicality, gain more experience, cut out mistakes, gain a couple of more young players (and they are out there from minor teams of 08/09), hold onto your more senior players.

At least 6/7 of Kerrys points from the 30 to 50 mins came directly from Mayo mistakes/stupid frees. Cut that in half next year and instead of the goal getting it back to a 5 point gap its a 1 or 2 point gap. Do that and your in the game with 10 mins to go.

[blast05]

Powerful post Abbeysider. I don't know where you get the time to compose such a post during a working day !

A few of my thoughts....
Embarrassed
that was the thought that was foremost in my mind when i left Croke Park and time hasn't change that so much. Losing an All-Ireland semi-final by 9 pts against a time who are only a shadow of the same team from 4 to 5 years ago can not be viewed in any other light imho. It may sound harsh but i don't find any great solace in reflecting on a positive year.

Positive year
Yes, absolutely, the goals were achieved. But the goals were achieved after the Cork match. Judging the last part of the season in isolation, i.e.: from the position we found ourselves in at the full time whistle in the Cork match to the end of the Kerry match  ..... well it can only be considered as a failure - hence my point 1 - embarrassed.

Naievty
There was quite a bit of innocence about the Mayo team during the Kerry purple patch. They had a run on us and yet we had no on-field leaders who took it on themselves to do whatever it took ... from positioning themselves in a deeper role for a few minutes (in front of Gooch - although Cafferkey should have been switched on to him after Gooch had his first 2 pts in the second half) to feigning injury after Kerry win a breaking ball to a bit of rough house tackling after Kerry win another break ... or whatever. At this level of football you can't allow a team to have a 6 or 7 score run on you in a very short duration. No way in hell Kerry would have allowed it.

The players
As with almost everyone i am very proud of them up to the point of the end of the Cork game. However, after the Kerry game it seems that no one here is willing to highlight inadequacies, under-performances, etc. No harm for this type of stuff to be debated in public forums .... last thing we want is for the Mayo team on mass to be sitting on bar stools this week feeling happy with themselves and their performance against Kerry. No problem with the week of unwinding drinking a few pints but bitter disappointment should be the name of the game for this week. If the players can't handle a few constructive comments being aired in the public domain then i would have to question their mental fortitude. Time allows me just to comment on a few players.....

Hennelly .... massive potential but caused a goal and a point. Needs to learn where the limit of his responsibility lies. He should not be contesting every high ball that comes within 6 or 7 yards of his line (he was lucky a few times against Cork in this regard). Also, kicking the ball with the outside of the boot from close to the sideline to a corner back in front of the goals is fine 9 times out of 10 ..... but thats not a high enough percentage to deem it as acceptable risk. There was a simple handpass available to him and he should have took it. Needs to have a plan B for kickouts.

Vaughan ..... hard to argue with a man that holds Declan O'Sullivan so quite and score 3 pts from centre back.... but where was the physical presence under the breaking ball, where were the hits like Trevor Mortimer dished out. If he could learn to throw himself about in a more aggressive manner then combined with his athleticism he could become a 'though shalt not pass' centre back - the man of steel at the front of Fort Knox. Without that attribute then 'nice' is the insulting word that could be used.

O'Shea ...... oh what to do with him - how do you make a man more mobile ? or probably more a case of make him quicker and sharper during game time. I just don't know. Too good to not be playing but where and how ?!?!

Dillon ..... a leader but the game slows up too much when it goes through him a la Ciaran McDonald. He waits that extra second or 2 while waiting for the perfect pass. I was not impressed with him on Sunday - who had a bigger influence on the game, Dillon or his man ? Maybe better off on the inside line - feeding off Moran ?

Freeman ..... a bit of 2nd season syndrome perhaps but needs to develop a tough ruthless mental edge for next year. I thought from watching him last year that he had this in spades but it wasn't there on Sunday. Too many silly mistakes ...... once the easy point option in the first half ended up in the keepers hands then he was not able to turn and i would have taken him off instead of Seamus O'Se


Management
No doubt a major success albeit errors made on Sunday. Undoubtedly however it will now be an even bigger challenge to bring the team on a step further next year. How are they going to freshen it up to do that ? I believe the strength and conditioning program carries on into the next phase so benefits should be seen from that anyway but that's only a part of the jigsaw.
One thing that has dumbfounded though me is how Horan is able to hold down a management job in a multinational that is a 40 minute drive from where he lives, have 4 young kids and manage an inter-country team like Mayo. How is that sustainable ? John O'Mahony wasn't even that busy !

[ross4life]

Aidan Walsh,Neil Douglas were two fine under aged Mayo forwards why are these guys not getting a chance at senior level?

[Square Ball]

Slightly distubing to hear David Brady on Newstalk this evening describing Colm Cooper as a "class piece of ass".

wonder what he would say if he seen the photo some fella sent me, one of those Kerry men running about with his willie flailing about 

[Jinxy]

Slightly distubing to hear David Brady on Newstalk this evening describing Colm Cooper as a "class piece of ass".

He can be quite disturbing to listen to.
He described one of the Dublin backs as orgasmic a week ago.
He also uses the word 'sexy' a lot.

[ross4life]

Brady's touch line chat on Sunday was strange as well, O'Shea's brothers.. if you can't beat them join them?

[ross matt]

A few of my thoughts....
Embarrassed
that was the thought that was foremost in my mind when i left Croke Park and time hasn't change that so much. Losing an All-Ireland semi-final by 9 pts against a time who are only a shadow of the same team from 4 to 5 years ago can not be viewed in any other light imho. It may sound harsh but i don't find any great solace in reflecting on a positive year.

I wouldnt go as far as saying that you should be embarrrassed Blast but you did hit the nail on the head with the above comment. I expected Mayo to do much better. Especially after improving in every match this year and beating Cork.

I dont think the 9 point margin flatters Kerry at all. They had 2 clear goal chances in the 1st five minutes that would have put them out of sight. Andy Moran had 3 chances but they were'nt as clear cut and I thought he should have taken a point with two of them. Yet I agree with Blast that Kerry are in decline.

I rate Andy very highly but despite him winning alot of ball and scoring 2 points I thought Marc O'Se contained him well. Surely Moran's power and ability to drive with the ball would have been much more useful out around midfield where they were being cleaned ?

Dont get Muppet's issue with the ref either. Mayo constantly fouled cynically. Higgin's and O'Se could easily have walked. The targeting of Galvin when he came in was immature and a total distraction with him having the last laugh with his 2 points at the final whistle.

Maybe I over rated Mayo and Connacht football going in to this match but I expected them to be much closer or even be able to put Kerry away. Its still a year of progress of course but Galway with a decent manager like Mulholland are bound to get their act together next season. No guarantee Mayo or the Rossies will improve on this season but at least Connacht will be very competitive and that in itself will raise the bar.

[moysider]

A few of my thoughts....
Embarrassed
that was the thought that was foremost in my mind when i left Croke Park and time hasn't change that so much. Losing an All-Ireland semi-final by 9 pts against a time who are only a shadow of the same team from 4 to 5 years ago can not be viewed in any other light imho. It may sound harsh but i don't find any great solace in reflecting on a positive year.

I wouldnt go as far as saying that you should be embarrrassed Blast but you did hit the nail on the head with the above comment. I expected Mayo to do much better. Especially after improving in every match this year and beating Cork.

I dont think the 9 point margin flatters Kerry at all. They had 2 clear goal chances in the 1st five minutes that would have put them out of sight. Andy Moran had 3 chances but they were'nt as clear cut and I thought he should have taken a point with two of them. Yet I agree with Blast that Kerry are in decline.

I rate Andy very highly but despite him winning alot of ball and scoring 2 points I thought Marc O'Se contained him well. Surely Moran's power and ability to drive with the ball would have been much more useful out around midfield where they were being cleaned ?

Dont get Muppet's issue with the ref either. Mayo constantly fouled cynically. Higgin's and O'Se could easily have walked. The targeting of Galvin when he came in was immature and a total distraction with him having the last laugh with his 2 points at the final whistle.

Maybe I over rated Mayo and Connacht football going in to this match but I expected them to be much closer or even be able to put Kerry away. Its still a year of progress of course but Galway with a decent manager like Mulholland are bound to get their act together next season. No guarantee Mayo or the Rossies will improve on this season but at least Connacht will be very competitive and that in itself will raise the bar.

There s no good way to lose a match. If you go close people point out where you choke, lost it on the line, blah, blah and blah. If you lose by 5 or more its called a trashing.
Now I m not going to tell anybody that they should not be embarrassed by what they saw the last day. People are entitled to feel any way they want. I m wasn t exactly happy either. But I wasn t surprised by the margin of defeat and I would not have been surprised if it was greater. Did I think it would be closer. Yes, and I even gave us a 30% chance of winning. But for that to happen, not only would we have had to be brilliant on the day, Kerry would have to be seriously in decline. And they are not. Some of the greats are retired but there is more than enough quality left to be still no.1 by some distance. Sure they are beatable I suppose, but if they figure out how to beat a team they ll do it in style. I ll put it this way. I won nice money on the Cork result but I kept my hands firmly in my pocket the last day even with the generous odds flying about.  Maybe Mayo could have kept the score down more, but that would not mean that they re better than they are. Imagine the reaction if Mayo did damage limitation and didn t actually try to win the match. The reality is the Mayo are one of only 3 teams to have lost only once in the championship. These players have to wait a long time to get this out of their system, unlike say the Waterford hurlers who had the chance to redeem themselves in a matter of weeks and the humiliation forgotten. While we were not humiliated a lot of people will be spinning it that way. I dont think the year or the team is defined by that 9 point defeat. We are where we are and the trick now is to progress and not go backwards.
I think we will progress as long as the hard work is done. Andy Moran is an example of what can be achieved. He s stuck at it and finally became a top player this Summer. Even last Sring and later people were questioning his worth. We ve only seen the tip of the iceberg of Cunn, Caff, Vaughan, O Sés, McLoughlin, Freeman, O Connor. I cant make a judgement on Roscommon or Galway but I expect we ll be much stronger next year with more options in the panel.

[kevmy]

Aidan Walsh,Neil Douglas were two fine under aged Mayo forwards why are these guys not getting a chance at senior level?

We haven't really seen Aidan Walsh at senior level yet. Douglas got a bit of a run in the league but picked up an injury. We also have Cathal Freeman who is another good young player who's injured this year.

I think thats part of the reason why Mayo folk aren't too disappointed. In '04 and '06 that was that teams peak, they weren't going to get much better. This team is young enough, with talent still coming through to improve considerably, which will be needed to win an AI

[Zulu]

What's the story with Shane Nally? I thought he was the most likely young player to make it as a top quality senior player. Other than Cillian O'Connor I haven't seen a Mayo underage forward in the past few years who I felt would make it as a serious senior footballer .