Armagh Vs Derry

[Bogball XV]

Hanratty has the potential to make it, no doubt but it won't be this year. there are players who have done very well for the county u21s (a grade of football above the club championship) who aren't ready for senior county football yet.

I don't agree with that, why should U21 neccessarily be above club football?  Maybe at normal senior football level, but not at the higher levels towards the latter stages of the county and then provincial championships.  Although that's neither here nor there as regards Hanratty's potential, however as an outsider he seems to me to be the best new prospect Armagh have.

[Imposerous]

I have never said that McKenna will be the answer to the midfield problem, but he has shown enough to me that he should be given a chance to show how he performs in that company. 
It would be very naive of anyone to think that good club performances equates to a similar county performance.  I am not making that case for any of the other young Cross stars (apart from Hanratty).  The evidence that McKenna has shown to date leads me to think that he could perform at that level.  Against St. Brid he held his own among a big strong mobile opposition.  To ask a 19 year old to solve a county midfield problem would be folly, however, Swift has been given numerous chances to prove himself there, yet McKenna dominated both him and Colin Holmes last year.  Unfortunately club games are the only measure by which we can judge any player before they are called onto any squad.  McClelland and Toner are prime examples of youth being given a chance at that level, Toner in particular has been impressive.  McKenna was as impressive as both those as a minor, but to me is a rangy type of player who is developing all the time.  As I've said before he should be given a run out amongst county opposition to see what he's about.  It is likely to be too soon, and Lavery does have the makings of a decent midfielder, so the problem which led me to ask for his trial may not be so stark.  You do however, seem not to rate McKenna at all beyond being capable.  My opinion, like yours on Martin O'Rourke, differs.
I think Joe's strange positioning of players has left the squad addled.  The complete spine of the team has been tinkered with and it is anyone's guess who'll fill the FB, CHB, MF CHF and FF positions against Down. 
Lavery is no string pulling CHF.  I can't understand Joe's use of him in this position.
Toal has undoubted ability, and is not the finished article.  I believe, like you, that the FF line is where your likely to get the greatest threat from him.
I agree that Swift should return to club football and try to rediscover the form which eared him his call up.

[Aghdavoyle]

There are those who would argue that Joe won't be trying anyone who could have an impact at centre half forward... he's holding that one in reserve. i'm starting to think he foesn't want anything above the mediocre to appear in the half back line either...

[thebandit]

There are those who would argue that Joe won't be trying anyone who could have an impact at centre half forward... he's holding that one in reserve. i'm starting to think he foesn't want anything above the mediocre to appear in the half back line either...

What a load of shite

[pintsofguinness]

There are those who would argue that Joe won't be trying anyone who could have an impact at centre half forward... he's holding that one in reserve. i'm starting to think he foesn't want anything above the mediocre to appear in the half back line either...

What a load of shite

So bandit why do you think Joe is insisting on playing half backs who are not up to county standard?

[TG4]

There are those who would argue that Joe won't be trying anyone who could have an impact at centre half forward... he's holding that one in reserve. i'm starting to think he foesn't want anything above the mediocre to appear in the half back line either...

What a load of shite

So bandit why do you think Joe is insisting on playing half backs who are not up to county standard?

in all fairness lads,joe doesnt know whos going to be up to county standard until he actually gives them a run of games to see how they perform in the company of county players and in opposition to county players. take mc clelland for example,he had a very good mc kenna cup campaign and a lot of people were saying he was going to be the new francie etc, and now after a couple of poor showings in the league he is being disregarded in some quarters and people are saying hes too slow etc. the best way to find these things out tho is by putting players in to games to see how they fair. who in the county is considered better halfbacks than the lads that have been playing in these positions in the league so far? i personally thought that jp donnelly should have been given an extended run in the league to see how he would have done

[bennydorano]

 

who in the county is considered better halfbacks than the lads that have been playing in these positions in the league so far? i personally thought that jp donnelly should have been given an extended run in the league to see how he would have done

Mainly Kevin Dyas(who to be fair, got the most of a game, but only due to injury) and Charlie Vernon.

[Uladh]

TG4

If you think there is no way to know who has a decent chance of making the grade before playing them, you are naive in the extreme. club and county underage football is a decent guide but once you see them training in better company you will know. also, there are qualities which make a player good at club & underage which will not be transferrable as setting a player apart at senior level. Noone with any cop on thought McClelland was the next francie or anything near it. those are little folk stories which grow from a players own club and get perpetuated through a form of GAA chinese whispers.

Kevin Dyas is a stand out prospect at half back but hasn't got a single start. his only start came at centre half forward and he was, not surprisingly, taken off in the first half. talk about killing two birds with the one stone!

Since you ask, there are several better half backs in the county. in fact there are loads. most of the lads i could list are just good club footballers but are still better than the two lads that have played so far. obviously this is no fault of the two lads as they are doing their best i'm sure. for the record, the three best wing backs in the county are donnelly, mckeever and dyas. i would give mckeown from cross a good shout there too but obviously it'd be a completely new level for him. the only two centre backs in the county are McGeeney and o'rourke.

I don't think vernan is ready to play half back for the county seniors yet. while he would be effective breaking forward, he could get some serios roastings against the wrong opponents. there are other ways to use him while he works on his weaknesses but i'd be worried whether he'd get the right guidance hin that regard with Grimley off the scene.

[TG4]

TG4

If you think there is no way to know who has a decent chance of making the grade before playing them, you are naive in the extreme. club and county underage football is a decent guide but once you see them training in better company you will know. also, there are qualities which make a player good at club & underage which will not be transferrable as setting a player apart at senior level. Noone with any cop on thought McClelland was the next francie or anything near it. those are little folk stories which grow from a players own club and get perpetuated through a form of GAA chinese whispers.

Kevin Dyas is a stand out prospect at half back but hasn't got a single start. his only start came at centre half forward and he was, not surprisingly, taken off in the first half. talk about killing two birds with the one stone!

Since you ask, there are several better half backs in the county. in fact there are loads. most of the lads i could list are just good club footballers but are still better than the two lads that have played so far. obviously this is no fault of the two lads as they are doing their best i'm sure. for the record, the three best wing backs in the county are donnelly, mckeever and dyas. i would give mckeown from cross a good shout there too but obviously it'd be a completely new level for him. the only two centre backs in the county are McGeeney and o'rourke.

I don't think vernan is ready to play half back for the county seniors yet. while he would be effective breaking forward, he could get some serios roastings against the wrong opponents. there are other ways to use him while he works on his weaknesses but i'd be worried whether he'd get the right guidance hin that regard with Grimley off the scene.

i totally agree with you regarding kevin dyas that he is an outstanding prospect and i am surprised that he hasnt been given more opportunities to play in his natural position of a wing half back as i think he definitly has the potential to make one of the wing half positions his own whether it is this year or not im not sure. i also agree with you on the fact that i dont think charlie vernon is ready for the centre back position,however i do feel he needs to get established in some position or role or he could end up being like tony mc entee in that he will just be used in a number of different positions when someone is unavalable but will fail to hold down a regular position on a regular basis.

i reject your claim that i am naive in the extreme,you say that once you see them training in better company you will know who has a decent chance of making the grade. however,there is a strong possibility that the likes of mc creesh and mc clelland have benn showing up well in training but as everybody knows it is one thing showing up well in training and quite another thing to do so in a league game on a sunday against other county teams.

i also think toner should have been given more of a chance to get a run at playing in the full back position for the seniors as he has the potential to make himself a viable option in francies absence. a good showing from the likes of mc kenna and johnny hanratty on saturday could enable them to be given a chance to show if they can cut it aswel

[bennydorano]

Regarding Dyas,I thought it was telling that he wasn't able to hold down a place on UUJ's first 15.  I don't see how at this point in time he would be fit for inter-county.

[thebandit]

There are those who would argue that Joe won't be trying anyone who could have an impact at centre half forward... he's holding that one in reserve. i'm starting to think he foesn't want anything above the mediocre to appear in the half back line either...

What a load of shite

So bandit why do you think Joe is insisting on playing half backs who are not up to county standard?

Who is better?

Dyas IMO is a couple of years away, but will make it. Vernon is a great prospect, but is a bit loose for championship action just yet. A serious talent tho.

McClelland looked good in the McKenna Cup, but strikes me as a player that is better suited to the softer ground! Again he could make it.
Aidan O'Rourke should still be on the panel.

I think to be fair to JK he couldn't be accused of trying to protect Aaron, as he is one of the best wing half backs in the country and his place would not be subject to that much scrutiny regardless of who the manager is. I have to admit I would be of the opinion that Stephen Kernan still has something to offer the county setup, and seems to be suffering from a lack of confidence. Remember he was instrumental in the U21 All Ireland Victory.

[brokencrossbar1]

t the minute Armagh have a plethora of potential young half back stars.  If Geezer is not starting, as it stands the line is Aaron, McKeever and Duffy.  With the likes of Vernon, Dyas, McClelland and the older JP Donnelly the options are very wide.  Put Geezer in and also I believe Aidan should be there and you have serious talent.

Uladh in regards to playing Vernon in that loose role from wing forward, I personally don't agree with it as a good tactic.  Too many of todays half backs are attack minded and the likes of Tom O'Se could cause havoc in those circumstances.  If it is going to work the extra man should reall come out from the FF line.  I am not sure if he has been tried but would Vernon be an option for midfield alongside McGrane?

Dyas is a great player but lads he is still very young.  He is just out of school last year and is not a very big, physical player yet.  As benny said if he cannot make Queen's Sigerson starting 15 he is not ready for county yet.  Keep him on the panel by all means, let him adjust to the pace of the game for a year or so and then see how things are. 

I really haven't seen enough of McClelland to make a judgement on him yet, but what I remember of him as a minor he was very assured and looked a very good prospect. 

Let's face it lads, Armagh are having a crisis of confidence and maybe it needs a bust up between all parties to clear the air.  It happened with us in Cross under Joe a number of times and it gelled everyone together.  I really do not think Armagh are very fair away ability wise.  It is mentally where the problem and the good thing is that can be sorted out if approached the right way.  I think JK can do that and I think he will do it.

[Imposerous]

Dead right.  We have a serious amount of defending options. 'Tis a pity similar competition doesn't exist at the other end of the field.
All the best to your former battle commrades on Saturday.