Osama Dead

[seafoid]

Puckoon

The tactic of slurring everyone who disagrees with Israel's brutal and pointless treatment of the Palestinians as antisemitic
doesn't work any more.  Your fellow travellers in New York tried it out on distinguished artist Tony Kushner, denying him an honorary degree at CUNY because he said something critical of Israel like the settlements are stupid and against the long term interests of Israel. The backlash is massive :

http://mondoweiss.net/2011/05/awakening-kushner-mugging-leads-ucla-prof-to-reject-zionism.html

    Peter Beinart gave a very good talk – at once eloquent and morally and intellectually serious – at UCLA Hillel last night. The talk explored the complexity of loving Israel and yet disapproving of the pattern of ethnic subordination that characterizes Israeli rule over the West Bank. Beinart mentioned the fact that settler violence against Palestinians sometimes fits any plausible definition of "terrorism" – attacks on innocents to make a political point – and that very few of those attacks ever lead to law enforcement action against the perpetrators.

    The response from part of the audience left me sick to my stomach. The basic theme – stated in so many words by one participant – was "they brought it on themselves." To hear Jews talking about collective ethnic guilt in tones worthy of Der Sturmer was really more than I could handle.  I left after being personally accused of indifference to the Shoah because I refused to profess indifference to the suffering of Arabs.     And today I learn that Tony Kushner – whose views about Israel seem roughly to track mine – has been denied an honorary degree by a minority of the trustees of the City University of New York, based on a typical cowardly wingnut smear job, launched without warning in a way that gave Kushner no chance to defend himself.  I know most Israelis don't deserve their worst American defenders, but if the result of having to defend Israel is that Jews start acting like bullies and sounding like Nazis, at some point the price gets to be too high.


I don't know if you know of Peter Beinart but he wrote a huge article last year telling Israel that it is losing the younger generation of American Jews because of this sort of behaviour. 

[seafoid]

Puckoon

"Seafoid's very anti American posts - are going to get some sort of reaction"

Yourself and Mikesheehy are like 2 corner boys gagging go have your pints split.
If you have something to say, say it openly. But don't accuse me of justifying 911. 

[Puckoon]

Regardless of those two posters -Seafoid's anti-semetic posts on a number of threads, and his very anti American posts - are going to get some sort of reaction. FFS he was bringing Crazy horse into this a couple pages back.

Puckoon, why do you insist on labelling Seafoid's criticism of Israel as anti-semetism?

The Fundamental Rights agency issued examples of contemporary anti-semitism which included the following:

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic

How many boxes has Seafoid's posts on this board ticked?

Israel doesn't belong in the Middle East.

[Puckoon]

Puckoon

"Seafoid's very anti American posts - are going to get some sort of reaction"

Yourself and Mikesheehy are like 2 corner boys gagging go have your pints split.
If you have something to say, say it openly. But don't accuse me of justifying 911.

I think I said what I have to say openly. I havn't mentioned your stance on 911. I'm sure I DISregarded Mike Sheehys post, if you care to read back.

[Arthur_Friend]

"How many boxes has Seafoid's posts on this board ticked?"

Do enlighten..

[seafoid]

Puckoon

3 of your points are nonsense. The other 2 are fine.


Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

Israel is a settler colonial state that was formed after the ethnic cleansing of the native Palestinian population . By definition it is racist. Jews have the right to move to Israel and gain citizenship under the law of return while Palestinian refugees are denied the  right of return. That is racism. If that isn't good enough for you, try the roads for Jews only on the West Bank.   


Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

I expect the US to treat its Indians fairly and honour the treaties it has signed. Israel is expected to honour the treaties it has signed.
 
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Who is responsible for the white phosphorous? Satan ? Zionists are held responsible for their actions. Israel has signed international treaties, you know. It's not anti-Semitic to expect Israel to honour its treaty obligations. BTW it's not fair to hold decent Jews responsible for the actions of the Zionists. Philip Glass never hurt anyone.     

[seafoid]

Puckoon

3 of your points are nonsense. The other 2 are fine.


Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.

Israel is a settler colonial state that was formed after the ethnic cleansing of the native Palestinian population . By definition it is racist. Jews have the right to move to Israel and gain citizenship under the law of return while Palestinian refugees are denied the  right of return. That is racism. If that isn't good enough for you, try the roads for Jews only on the West Bank.   


Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

I expect the US to treat its Indians fairly and honour the treaties it has signed. Israel is expected to honour the treaties it has signed.
 
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Who is responsible for the white phosphorous? Satan ? Zionists are held responsible for their actions. Israel has signed international treaties, you know. It's not anti-Semitic to expect Israel to honour its treaty obligations. BTW it's not fair to hold decent Jews responsible for the actions of the Zionists. Philip Glass never hurt anyone.     

[Mike Sheehy]

you are not fooling anybody seafoid. I see you for what you are.

[Mike Sheehy]

Regardless of those two posters -Seafoid's anti-semetic posts on a number of threads, and his very anti American posts - are going to get some sort of reaction. FFS he was bringing Crazy horse into this a couple pages back.

Puckoon, why do you insist on labelling Seafoid's criticism of Israel as anti-semetism?

The Fundamental Rights agency issued examples of contemporary anti-semitism which included the following:

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic

How many boxes has Seafoid's posts on this board ticked?

Israel doesn't belong in the Middle East.

....accusing jews of manipulating world sympathy over the holocaust....thats another box he has ticked

[Mike Sheehy]

Regardless of those two posters -Seafoid's anti-semetic posts on a number of threads, and his very anti American posts - are going to get some sort of reaction. FFS he was bringing Crazy horse into this a couple pages back.

Puckoon, why do you insist on labelling Seafoid's criticism of Israel as anti-semetism?

The Fundamental Rights agency issued examples of contemporary anti-semitism which included the following:

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic

How many boxes has Seafoid's posts on this board ticked?

Israel doesn't belong in the Middle East.

....accusing jews of manipulating world sympathy over the holocaust....thats another box he has ticked

What if that's the truth?

Its not the truth. Give me an example.

[seafoid]

...accusing jews of manipulating world sympathy over the holocaust....thats another box he has ticked
[/quote]

Norman Finkelstein explains the Holocaust card :
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQSV3BBtZ4

This is traditional Jewish teaching:

Lev 19:34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Hedy Epstein says I was told the Palestinians are my enemy. They are not my enemy
http://vimeo.com/19395262

But carry on anyway.

[seafoid]

Mike Sheehy

Tell us what you know about Zionism and the Holocaust .
Do you know how many holocaust survivors live below the poverty line in Israel ?

[Mike Sheehy]

« Reply #338 on: Today at 09:43:09 AM »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from: Mike Sheehy on Today at 09:42:41 AM
Quote from: seafoid on Today at 09:25:05 AM
Quote from: Mike Sheehy on Today at 12:28:54 AM

...accusing jews of manipulating world sympathy over the holocaust....thats another box he has ticked


Norman Finkelstein explains the Holocaust card :
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQSV3BBtZ4

This is traditional Jewish teaching:

Lev 19:34 The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

Hedy Epstein says I was told the Palestinians are my enemy. They are not my enemy
http://vimeo.com/19395262

But carry on anyway.

[/quote]

..and that is why I despise you. A man can lose his family in the holocaust and still be prepared to see the other side. yet you, in your infinite hatred of Israelies (and , whisper it, jews) and americans can only ever see one side

[deiseach]

you are not fooling anybody seafoid. I see you for what you are.

I'd give up if I were you, seafoid. Nothing as shallow as 'evidence' is required to convict you on the anti-Semitism charge

[Mike Sheehy]

Mike Sheehy

Tell us what you know about Zionism and the Holocaust .
Do you know how many holocaust survivors live below the poverty line in Israel ?

Do you really care about how many holocaust survivors live below the poverty line ? or (whisper it!) care whether they live under any line ?